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Replacement rear axle
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LostDeere59
Posted 2018-08-09 2:20 PM (#568132)
Subject: Replacement rear axle



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So I've looked around in the archives and it seems that the best replacement rear axle to get rid of the tapered axles, and get updated brakes with integrated parking brakes is the 70-72 E-body cars.

Before I go searching for one I thought I'd see if there are any opinions good/bad on the E-body 8 3/4, or any suggestions on a "better" replacement.

Thanks for any input

Gregg
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59 in Calif
Posted 2018-08-09 6:07 PM (#568152 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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I got a complete rear axel ass'y drum to drum from a 68 Ply Fury and put in a 59 Dodge. It was a really close match but had a Fab shop move the spring mounts about 3/8" to perfectly align up to springs. It has an 8 3/4 diff. The slight difference in overall length did not create tire sidewall clearance issues to the inside fender well. This also gave me 2 1/2" X 11" brake shoes that are easily purchased at Napa. I also got the front brakes off a 63 Chry. The spindle , brakes, drum everything , ball to ball joint. 57 - 64 (if I remember correctly) Dodge, Desoto Chry all use the same ball joint. upper and lower. I now have 11" X 3" brake shoes in the front and still uses 4 1/2 X 5 lug nut pattern. If you are putting this on a 60 Desoto, it'll fit. You didn't mention what your working on. Jerry
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-10 6:02 AM (#568177 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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Yes, '65-'69 C-body axles are ideal. But often, if you purchase an E-body rear from someone, you are really getting one of these because they are so interchangeable. It is hard to tell them apart, but the E-body rear is supposed to have a different pinion angle, which is not as ideal for our cars. The perch distance on our cars is 45.5", and these newer rears have them at 46". This is close enough that you don't need to move the perches as the springs will easily move to accommodate the difference.

Keep in mind that this info is for '57-up. It is better to use a B-body axle on '55-'56 Dodge/Plymouth, and the '65-'67 fits a little better than the '68-'70 version.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-08-10 6:07 AM
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Mopar1
Posted 2018-08-10 12:30 PM (#568195 - in reply to #568177)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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"'65-'69 C-body axles are ideal" They bolt into many years of Mopars. A buddy bolted one in to his '41 Plymouth.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-10 12:38 PM (#568196 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: RE: Replacement rear axle



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The E-body rear end has the same overall width and spring centers as the more desirable C-body but the E-body has the wrong pinion angle. This can be corrected with a 3° shim under the rear of the spring pad to tilt the nose down.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-13 12:23 AM (#568335 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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Tilt it down by how much? What thickness of shim?
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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-13 12:49 PM (#568365 - in reply to #568335)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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Tilt in down 3° with a tapered shim.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bel-4976/overview/
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-13 1:11 PM (#568368 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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Got it. Sorry my eyes are getting worse on me. I thought your original post said 3" as to the width. I guess I should start wearing some reading glasses.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-09-23 4:40 PM (#570635 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: RE: Replacement rear axle


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65-67 C body rears (and E body) are one inch wider overall, and spring perches close enough to use as is. Spring gets pulled in 1/4" each side to sit under perch.

65-67 C body rear is 61.75" wide drum to drum
E body rear is 61.625" wide drum to drum

65-67 C body and E body 46" spring perch to spring perch.

Supposed to be slightly different pinion angles C to E body, but without measuring who knows. Conflicting measurements and data everywhere on the internet.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-09-23 6:38 PM (#570640 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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3 degrees might work for some but not all and would be guessing at best . if one goes through the work of changing a rear unit , wouldn't it make sense
to go the other 50 feet of that mile and degree gauge the process -------------------------------------------------later
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57chizler
Posted 2018-09-24 10:56 AM (#570684 - in reply to #570635)
Subject: RE: Replacement rear axle



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CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-09-23 1:40 PM

65-67 C body rear is 61.75" wide drum to drum
E body rear is 61.625" wide drum to drum


The '65-'69 C-body is the exact same width as the E-body, even use the same axle shaft. The only difference, as previously cited, is the pinion angle.

One other difference is the location of the housing vent which alters the location of the brake line distribution block; this requires a different brake hose.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-16 10:22 PM (#571832 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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I am hunting down Jeep Dana 35's in the pull a part.... I can get posi with parking brake and disc brakes for 150$ Same width. offset is 3/4 inch.

Looks like the ratio is 3.55 which will work.

65 mph is 3000 rpm, obviously high but no OD.

The other Dana 35 ratio is 3.07, that's 2660 rpm... better

they have newer axles I am looking at a 2006 Durango, it has a 3.4 ratio, posi and all kinds of stuff, have to cut the perches off. Have to worry about the disc brakes a bit on the new stuff

i used this calculator. tires are 26.6 tall
http://www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/differential-gear-rat...



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-17 12:55 PM (#571862 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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Hmm so if a Dana 44 fits I can maybe find one of those... coming out of the same car? they should fit the same, ill check the length, offset looks the same 3/4

 

They are more sought after...

 

axle ratio is too hight a 3.73. though, a complete axle is 200$ at lqk



Edited by mikes2nd 2018-10-17 12:58 PM




(Dana44s.jpg)



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Attachments Dana44s.jpg (96KB - 11 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-24 10:49 PM (#572317 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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okay after more measuring. only the 84-01 jeep Cherokee looks to be the one to use because of the pinion offset and legnth. I need to go hit up another place to check the Wrangler years.

I spent a few hours in the junkyard measuring every truck/suv but they didn't have one single wrangler jeep... uhg.

Most are simplly to large. Like 63-65 inches. These axles are on the skinny side.

S-10s are 55 inches which are too short.

So im hunting jeeps, which appear to be the only real disc brake option if they even came with disc brakes. They have disc swap kits


after looking at axle kits for the 98 Cherokee for example... looks like other things fit.

93-02 Jeep Wrangler YJ & TJ, 92-01 Cherokee, 93-96 Grand Cherokee
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/129-0904-...

full list of fitments is:

Jeep Wrangler (TJ)
2002 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) drum
2001 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) drum
2000 Jeep Wrangler (TJ)
1999 Jeep Wrangler (TJ)
1998 Jeep Wrangler (TJ)
1997 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) drum
Jeep Wrangler (YJ)
1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) drum
1994 Jeep Wrangler (YJ)
1993 Jeep Wrangler (YJ)
Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
2001 Jeep Cherokee (XJ) drum
2000 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
1999 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
1998 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
1997 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
1995 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
1994 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
1993 Jeep Cherokee (XJ)
Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ)
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) Disc
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) disc
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) disc
1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) drum
Jeep Liberty (KJ)
2002 Jeep Liberty (KJ) drum

Narrowing this down... I get 3 years 94,95,95 grand cherokees that are the correct length and have disc brakes... yikes

axle lengths are 29 passenger, 30.05 for drivers.

these cars sometimes got Dana 44's, they came on the same years Grand Cherokees but they had to have the towing packages I think. hard to find since the offroaders hoard them like crazy because it was a bolt on upgrade.


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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-24 11:12 PM (#572320 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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And then you have to be really lucky to get the right gear ratio you want....and if you change your mind later for some reason, you have to do it all over again because changing gears is such an expensive pain in the neck. Doesn't seem worth it to me. Honestly, other than the trouble of replacing the drums when needed, the original 12" rear drum brakes work amazingly well. I was going 75mph up a small hill in the fast lane on the 101 freeway only to find that traffic was dead stopped on the other side. Panic time. This was in my '58 Coronet. I hit the brakes hard and the 12" discs in the front & 12" original drums in the back got me stopped in time with a car length to spare, without having to do any maneuvering. A newer car in back of me wasn't making it and had to swerve into the shoulder to avoid hitting me. Those 12" drums (& discs) worked very well. I believe that AAJ has a disc conversion for the original axle too if you want to go that route, but I don't know anything about it.

I should add that I swapped 12" drums from a '57 Windsor onto my car because it originally came with 11" drums.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-24 11:19 PM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-24 11:13 PM (#572321 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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Your right this might not be worth the hassle.

But i would really like posi and disc brakes.

I can easily change out my own axle gears, takes me a couple hours.

stock axle ratios(94-96 grand Cherokees) are 3.55 and 3.73 stock but 3.07's can be found cheap...  I can probably get them free from a jeep forum.

the original conversion doesnt get me posi and i spend like 700$ for a hack.  If i can get a whole axle for 150, i can get this whole new great posi setup for under 250$ which is insane.

I am repurposing mostly parts no one wants.  No one wants 3.07 gears, or a dana 35 from a jeep but they work well for this car I think.  im a little worried about the horsepower and torque on a dana 35 but these transmission dont hit hard.

summit sells rear calipers  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-142-58021/overview/year/1996/make/jeep/model/grand-cherokee

 



Edited by mikes2nd 2018-10-24 11:30 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-24 11:32 PM (#572323 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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I run 2.76:1 gears. They cruise really well and get great mileage. But 3.07:1 would be nice too. Most axle swappers go with the Ford 8.8. Any application that would work with that axle?
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-25 12:45 AM (#572326 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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the 8.8 would be perfect, but its pinion offset is 2 inches, the dana 35 is 3/4 inch, the stock axle is 3/8

I think the two inch might give a problem esp because of our small drive shaft tunnels..

here is the parts for a dana 35 disc brake conversion... hmm not bad.

https://www.stu-offroad.com//suspension/d44brake/bc-5.htm

The Jeep guys sometimes have driveshaft issues but i heard its rare and they are mostly offroad anyways..


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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-25 12:49 AM (#572327 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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Hmm just read something interesting Length is good, offset is good and its an 8.8...

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ford-rear-axle/

Certain mustangs had centered axles...  they are stronger and tons of them around and parts are everywhere.

Most 8.8s have offset pinions, but 8.8s in Mustangs have axles that are the same length side to side. The ’86–’93 Mustangs have 29.063-inch axles, and the rearend is 59.25 inches from axle flange to axle flange.

Great... 93 was the first rear disc year for Mustangs... :wince:    Im sure there are plenty of conversion kits though.



Edited by mikes2nd 2018-10-25 1:01 AM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-25 12:11 PM (#572346 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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the angle on the 2 inch offset might be a problem as it would create too big of an angle in the back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-25 1:40 PM (#572348 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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I'm getting the impression there must be 1000s of unwanted FL axles in the US lying around and I need one desperately over here, that sucks.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-25 1:41 PM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-25 2:09 PM (#572349 - in reply to #572348)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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1960fury - 2018-10-25 1:40 PM I'm getting the impression there must be 1000s of unwanted FL axles in the US lying around and I need one desperately over here, that sucks. :(

yes your correct.  I know some who throw them away because they cant sell them...  Shipping would suck, i can cut one up for you

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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-25 2:19 PM (#572350 - in reply to #572349)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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mikes2nd - 2018-10-25 2:09 PM

1960fury - 2018-10-25 1:40 PM I'm getting the impression there must be 1000s of unwanted FL axles in the US lying around and I need one desperately over here, that sucks. :(

yes your correct.  I know some who throw them away because they cant sell them...  Shipping would suck, i can cut one up for you



"Funny" thing is NOBODY drove, or drives, more miles in FL than I do. I drive them almost daily for 30 years and I never felt the need to replace the axle. I can't believe the things people do to make a 2 times in a lifetime brake job easier, like locating, buying, pulling an axle, welding, etc, etc in/with the time and money that consumes, I do 100 brake jobs with a tapered axle..... (shaking my head in disbelief).
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-25 3:09 PM (#572352 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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True, but I WANT posi… what am I to do? You know those are actually hard to find.

Although some guy recently was selling one, but cant find it now...
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57chizler
Posted 2018-10-26 2:15 PM (#572415 - in reply to #572352)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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If you want "Posi" you'll have to buy a GM. Limited slip differentials for the 8 3/4" aren't hard to find, new ones are readily available.

http://www.doctordiff.com/8-3-4-clutch-type-sure-grip-powr-lok.html
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-26 3:02 PM (#572420 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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Got $500 available and a long road trip? Entire bolt-in replacement sure grip rear, just needs disc brakes.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/d/mopar-posi-rear-end-70-cud...

I might go pick it up myself just to have it available, but someone else will probably beat me to it because I am unavailable this weekend. But I already have a number of sure grip units sitting in my garage that I'm not yet using. My favorite one I pulled from a '65 Imperial with a clutch type limited slip & 2.94 gears in a 742 case. I pulled that one out of Memory lane wrecking yard for $150. I cut the ends off the imperial housing and welded them back on to A-body specs & sold the housing for $450. So my investment in it is currently -$300. Most of these so called "E-body rears" are really '65-'69 C-body rears. They often advertise them that way to make it easier to sell them, but this one appears to be an actual E-body rear due to the location of the brake line mount. So that would need to be moved to use it well on our cars.



(65ImperialRear.jpg)



(Chopped.jpg)



(Welding_Setup.jpg)



(Painted.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 65ImperialRear.jpg (46KB - 21 downloads)
Attachments Chopped.jpg (116KB - 11 downloads)
Attachments Welding_Setup.jpg (34KB - 11 downloads)
Attachments Painted.jpg (39KB - 11 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-26 8:09 PM (#572440 - in reply to #572415)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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57chizler - 2018-10-26 2:15 PM If you want "Posi" you'll have to buy a GM. Limited slip differentials for the 8 3/4" aren't hard to find, new ones are readily available. http://www.doctordiff.com/8-3-4-clutch-type-sure-grip-powr-lok.html...

 

 

750$ is more than the Mustang posi... and then i spend another 500$ on rear disc conversion..,   Included the gear... oh and its not available...

 I can simply go get a 93 mustang 8.8... comes with posi and disc brakes all for 150$ + 100 for new disc/calipers...  and I get a good parking brake.

Edited by mikes2nd 2018-10-26 8:11 PM

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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-10-27 12:07 AM (#572444 - in reply to #572348)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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1960fury - 2018-10-25 1:40 PM

I'm getting the impression there must be 1000s of unwanted FL axles in the US lying around and I need one desperately over here, that sucks. :(


I'm tossing a 66/67 B body rear into my 58. So 1001.....
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-07 2:11 AM (#573093 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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where can you even find a 66/67 B body? I guess if i had a ton of junkyards sitting around.

I am pretty sure im going with a ford 8.8 track lock rear end.

After looking at all reasonable options ive exhausted them all except the ford.

The 4*4 blazer was an option but its a weak 7.5 and would need hubs drilled for the bolt pattern.

The mitsubishi 9.5 out of a montero sport was a great option and is a little sort just perfect to use with spacers/bolt pattern changer BUT it has a air locker and no gear available, lowest was 3.9

So after watching the video of a guy on youtube on how to cut a 8.8 down 2 7.8 inches and use same length axle on each side, it works out perfect. It will take me a day to get it done but I like doing this stuff It wont cost me much.. 150$ for the axle, 35$ new axle(extra drivers side) and 35$ for 3.31 gear all at a local pull a part. They have 15 of these rear ends.

The good thing about this is i will get super strength, trac lock posi, parking brakes, disc brakes, no maint... It does have a C clip but the disc brakes hold in the axle(unlike drums).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mayYpK_aPgM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-07 2:31 AM (#573096 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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other options were

Mustang 8.8's are all offset by 3 inches.

Dana 35's are all high geared and the offset works but I cant find any esp with posi and you have upgrade the brakes. Strength would be find and bolt pattern, youd have to use the pre 99.

There are about 100 videos of people cutting down 8.8's in their garage with nothing but a welder, some rebar and c clamps.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-11-07 5:44 PM (#573139 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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66/67 B body rears are everywhere. Lots of 8 3/4 rears out there slightly different widths too, whatever you want. It's easy, but do what you want
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-07 6:08 PM (#573142 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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where? ive looked
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-11-09 1:26 AM (#573207 - in reply to #573142)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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I just bought another complete B body 8 3/4 rear out of a 67 Belvedere wagon today. Cost me TWENTY FOUR BEER!!!!
Craigslist, parts sites, anywhere!!!
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-09 2:24 AM (#573210 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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ive checked... we simply don't have old junkyards here. Old mopars are rusted into the ground in ohio... and they didnt keep them around... they scrapped them.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-11-09 2:03 PM (#573231 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle



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You don't find them in junkyards. You find them on craigslist. But you don't want a B-body rear anyway. You want an Ebody or Cbody rear that is a direct bolt-in.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-09 2:57 PM (#573235 - in reply to #568132)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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its a crap shoot... and all non posi… rusty junk non posi for 300$ states away... 1975? that wont work... I could go to Detroit... couple truck ones?



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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-11-10 8:47 PM (#573295 - in reply to #573231)
Subject: Re: Replacement rear axle


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Powerflite - 2018-11-09 2:03 PM

You don't find them in junkyards. You find them on craigslist. But you don't want a B-body rear anyway. You want an Ebody or Cbody rear that is a direct bolt-in.


Neither of those- the 65-69 C body or the 70-74 E body- is actually a DIRECT bolt in. I know, I'm going though it right now......
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