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Front suspension - Volare clip
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-08-12 12:44 AM (#568273)
Subject: Front suspension - Volare clip


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Location: Locked in my Canadian garage....
Has anybody used a Volare F/M/J front clip on their cars?
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mstrug
Posted 2018-08-12 6:11 AM (#568281 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



Expert 5K+

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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
You just need the spindles/knuckles etc... Don't chop your frame.

http://arengineering.com/tech/mopar-musclecar-brake-upgrade/

Read.

Research.

Rejuvenate.
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uncltank
Posted 2018-08-12 10:42 AM (#568297 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 323
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Location: Kennewick Wa
I would NEVER do this again. On my '57 Dodge. The engine not centered leads to modifications of trans hump, steering column.
Be VERY careful on measurements to replace bumper mounting. It is NOT a simple thing!
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Mopar1
Posted 2018-08-12 12:49 PM (#568302 - in reply to #568297)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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Location: N.W. Fla.
mstrug is spot on, just get disc spindles.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-08-12 3:05 PM (#568307 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: RE: Front suspension - Volare clip


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Wow, I was thinking good idea. Are the front end pieces for 1958 MoPar suspensions readily available?? Steering boxes? I've never driven my car, it has 80,000 original miles but I don't know if the box is good or not. Rest of the car is pretty good.
I was thinking of swapping for high speed driving, I like to cruise at speeds higher than most. We had a few 57/58 MoPars back in the day and 80mph wasnt a problem, but thats going by memory!

I just wrecked a 1982 Cordoba J body and kept the whole front end. The spindles are J body, I believe the same as a Volare.

Just so you all know, I could care less about engine placement and bumper stuff, I have a bit of fabrication under my belt, that stuff doesnt scare me. But if you think a TRUE 100mph cruising would be possible with the stock front end (rebuilt of course) and swapped spindles I would go that route no problem. Just give me your honest best input, and I will listen.....

My car was a flathead 6, long gone.... and I need to fabricate engine mounts for a small block LA.... I have a healthy hydraulic roller 360 I might run, only reason I don't WANT to is it looks wrong IMO.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-08-12 4:14 PM (#568309 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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Location: Locked in my Canadian garage....
Upper ball joint the same for both cars..... Moog K772 Bottom ball a different number but I'm guessing the stud the same dimensions/tapers both lower ball joint. If the height of the spindles are the same it's gold I assume?

Has anybody here put an F/M/J - Volare spindle on a 57/58/59? Is the track reasonably the same? Anybody know?

We drove 57-59 Mopars 30+ years ago, we are all talking and agree they drove nice. I've looked and front end stuff is available so I'm gonna say I'm probably going to use my EARS and do the swap you guys suggest. This advice is much appreciated!

Anybody run a LA small block (Or B/RB) in a previous flathead 6 car? It looks like the flathead mounted up front. I can make mounts or.....

THANKS!
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GregCon
Posted 2018-08-12 5:11 PM (#568311 - in reply to #568309)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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The cars drive very well with a good condition stock suspension. I'd lose the drum brakes but otherwise....
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-08-12 8:32 PM (#568321 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: RE: Front suspension - Volare clip


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Location: Locked in my Canadian garage....
Unless I'm missing something the Volare spindles bolting on isn't appearing to be a "bolt on"....?
Am I missing something?

This is from THIS forum.....
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=35336
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57burb
Posted 2018-08-12 10:04 PM (#568325 - in reply to #568321)
Subject: RE: Front suspension - Volare clip



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Don't bother with a suspension swap. Wally Parks' 1957 Plymouth "Suddenly" went 183 mph with an injected stroker Hemi and the stock suspension. Definitely get brakes upgraded if you really plan to drive it 100+ regularly.

Jim Rawa documented his method for adding front disk brakes to these cars:
https://m.facebook.com/furyjim.rawa/albums/10210587894870246/
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Mopar1
Posted 2018-08-13 12:36 PM (#568364 - in reply to #568325)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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Location: N.W. Fla.
I used '77 NYer disc spindles on my '60 Plym. They mount with Ball joints, just install new ones.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-13 2:25 PM (#568370 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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I recommend just doing the Scarebird disc swap. It's a lot easier and less trouble, but does require 15" wheels. Use AAJ if you want 14". I don't think that saving $200 is worth the trouble of searching through the wrecking yards or craigslist, but to each, their own.

As far as handling at speed, I have taken my '58 DeSoto up over 90mph on many occasions and it handles awesomely - better than many cars from the early 2000's. I just drove my '58 Coronet 500 miles last weekend at 75-80 mph the whole way and it also handles well. It would handle even better if I changed the rear springs to stiffen them up like I did on my DeSoto. I was VERY thankful for the Scarebird disc upgrade throughout following may people down the mountain who don't know how to drive downhill properly, and also on 2 emergency stops that put the system to the test. These emergency stops happen all too frequently in LA traffic to the point that I would be afraid to drive on the freeway without significant upgrades to the brake system. I don't want to lose my car due to a close encounter with an idiot in a camry or BMW SUV.

In response to the original question, the Volare' clip would be an enormous amount of work to achieve......nothing. It would probably even reduce the performance depending on the condition & type of bushings used, and from increasing the weight of the front end.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-08-13 2:39 PM
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hemidenis
Posted 2018-08-13 7:46 PM (#568382 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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Hard to predict how long the suspension parts are going to last adding the 1700 pounds to the normal operation weight.
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pennerdodge
Posted 2018-08-14 12:19 PM (#568407 - in reply to #568309)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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Anybody run a LA small block (Or B/RB) in a previous flathead 6 car? It looks like the flathead mounted up front. I can make mounts or..!
I think you need to either replace the crossmember with one from a car with a poly v8, or else weld the mounts from a v8 car on at the right position. Once the motor mount brackets are there, i think it is just a matter of getting the right motor mounts to put in an LA engine. Somewhere on this site there was a thread where someone had cut the crossmember center section out, and welded in the center section from a v8 car, complete with engine mounting brackets . This would eliminate the chance of getting things misaligned, but if you are disassembling the whole suspension anyway then it would probably make the most sense to replace the crossmember.
I would be interested to see how this turns out, I bought a 69 polara 318 3 on the tree to use as a powertrain donor for my flat six 58 dodge, but so far i have only gotten as far as swapping the rear end.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-08-15 4:19 AM (#568453 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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not valare but imperial done by another member bob sapp/recondo -----------------------------------------------later

http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=44403&post...
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-08-18 6:07 PM (#568610 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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My 1960 NewYorker at 90-100mph highway cruising (just the speedometer showing);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cwKZ_T07YI

Stock suspension, but lowered.
Upgraded front drums to '73 Chrysler disc brakes, rotors and calipers. Stock '60 spindles.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-10-02 9:26 PM (#571081 - in reply to #568610)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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BigBlockMopar - 2018-08-18 6:07 PM


Stock suspension, but lowered.
Upgraded front drums to '73 Chrysler disc brakes, rotors and calipers. Stock '60 spindles.


OK. Gotta ask!!!
How did you bolt 73 Chrysler discs to your stock spindles? Did you use 73 Chrysler hubs? Make a bracket??
RockAuto lists inner and outer wheel bearings for a 1958 Dodge as the exact same inner and outer wheel bearings for a 1968 Dodge Coronet, so I don't doubt the hubs can be made to work, if not just bolt on. Caliper brackets though....? Any brake pics???
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-10-09 3:57 PM (#571394 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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I made a collar for the outer bearing on the spindle, so the '73 C-body bearings can be used.
Also used a GM transmission convertor pump seal on the inside larger bearing.
Made adapter plates to mount the brackets to.

Here's some more info about the conversion;
https://www.bigblockmopar.nl/2011/01/1960-chrysler-newyorker-discbra...

Also did the same conversion on my '62 NY wagon.
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Handygun
Posted 2018-10-09 8:18 PM (#571406 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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You would have to really search to find a worse handling, steering, torsion bar car than one of the sideways t-bar/strut f/m/j bodies.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-10-22 2:50 AM (#572147 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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As an owner of an M body 1989 Plymouth Caravelle Salon (Gran Fury Salon to those outside of Canada) with 281,000 Km. and good shock absorbers, I must disagree. With tire pressure around 33 psi I have no problem with handling or ride. It's great on the highway with no fighting with the steering even in heavy crosswinds. It's a cruiser, not a racer, having travelled Vancouver to Toronto in 2010, and back to Vancouver in Dec, 2014 (three snow storms and a dead battery). My only gripe it does not have cruise control.

Neatest thing is that people come up and say they had a Caravelle just like it XX years ago, and the hood rusted in the same spot. (It's rusting on either side of the raised portion that meets with the top of the grille)
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AceS
Posted 2018-10-30 5:17 AM (#572608 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: RE: Front suspension - Volare clip



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I did this to my 60 Plymo in the early 90's using a 78 Aspen Wagon donor (slant 6 overdrive car). There were few good options back then. I also z-d the frame with new square tube to lower the car and built my own motor mounts to support a 383/400/440. It was all lined up with the stock transmission cross member as the starting point using a 2nd Gen Charger transmission mount. Nothing on the firewall or floor had to be modified except that I converted the floor to accommodate an 833 4-speed (also using the Aspen hump + pedals). Stock 440 HP cast iron manifolds (68 Charger) fit perfectly.

The inner fenders had to be slightly trimmed to clear the upper a-arms for max travel and the front radiator clip had to be notched about 2 inches to clear the new frame rails. Had I not z-d the frame to lower the car it could have been planned to bolt all this stuff right in without modification. With some measuring and planning it wasn't that difficult but was a lot of work. How I approached this was to hang the engine/trans in the air off the stock trans cross member and then measured and planned the frame/suspension around it.

Not sure how helpful this is to you because my frame is fabricated from the firewall forward and spliced into the back half of the stock subframe. I can't say how well the F/M/J suspension would adapt to stock frame rails. I never considered it at the time because I wanted to get the car down on the ground which meant z-ing the frame.

Considering what is now available, I probably wouldn't do this again unless I just could not find the parts to also make the power steering conversion.



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Mopar1
Posted 2018-10-30 11:03 AM (#572615 - in reply to #572608)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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would help if you found one with less than 50K on it, but throw in the expense of rebuilding a front with 100k+ miles on it plus the work involved....
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-30 4:31 PM (#572634 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip



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The stock suspension works so unbelievable well with some relatively inexpensive mods, you can race almost everything, "supercars" of course excepted. The limiting factor is not the excellent 57-61 double control arm/torsion bar system, it is the rear axle. My little Fury is well known in my neck of the woods, all with slightly modified suspension/weight distribution upgrades, I haven't driven another car that goes thru curves like on rails like my 60. Keep the stock setup.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-11-10 11:08 PM (#573299 - in reply to #571406)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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Handygun - 2018-10-09 8:18 PM

You would have to really search to find a worse handling, steering, torsion bar car than one of the sideways t-bar/strut f/m/j bodies.


Yeah I disagree too. I owned and raced a J body for years. I now own a J body I drive at high speeds regularly. No idea what you are talking about.
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Handygun
Posted 2018-11-13 4:38 PM (#573464 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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T bar doubles as a strut, alignment issues, k frame issues, sag, front end wanders like a 2 dollar whore, . MoPar gave up longitudal bars to reduce NVH and designed the FMJ suspension to keep "torsion-aire". I have owned a Volare, 2 5th aves, a Mirada and a Granfury, After all I am a Mopar guy, and they were nice cars they just don't drive as well as their predesesors. Used to be a good front end to rob to replace a beam axle on an old truck or car. I mean they drive better than a straight axle over washboards and frost heaves so they are good at that.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-13 5:54 PM (#573467 - in reply to #568273)
Subject: Re: Front suspension - Volare clip


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I don't think you should ever use "Drive well" and Volare, 5th avenue or Mirada in the same post... That's got to be some bad Juju...
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