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Need help with bending flexible window channels properly
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-15 12:38 AM (#568451)
Subject: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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I am in the process of "restoring" the right rear door on my 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr sedan. In doing so, I am working on both the inside and outside of the door and replacing the window channels and cat's whiskers, etc.

I have previously done this on my driver's door so I assumed (hoped?) that I had developed enough skills to do a better job at bending the replacement flexible window channel.

Wrong. I think I bent this one worse than I did the first one (over a year ago)

The channel in question is the equivalent to the 23-42-16 in the diagram below and as shown in the photo:





As per the front door, I attempted to get the correct curvature by bending the channel over the window (which I had out of the car). Just like the first one a year ago, I ended up with a nasty kink that I don't know if I can get out.

Here are pictures, first from before and then from today. I need to do this better but I apparently need guidance.

Edited by 56D500boy 2018-08-15 12:40 AM




(56DodgeLeftFrontDoorFlexibleWindowChannelReplacementIssues_Outside.jpg)



(56DodgeRightRearDoorFlexibleWindowChannelReplacementIssues_Outside.jpg)



(56DodgeRightRearDoorFlexibleWindowChannelReplacementIssues_Inside.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeLeftFrontDoorFlexibleWindowChannelReplacementIssues_Outside.jpg (107KB - 57 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRightRearDoorFlexibleWindowChannelReplacementIssues_Outside.jpg (124KB - 55 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRightRearDoorFlexibleWindowChannelReplacementIssues_Inside.jpg (158KB - 48 downloads)
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Viper Guy
Posted 2018-08-15 12:05 PM (#568483 - in reply to #568451)
Subject: Re: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Have you tried a tubing bender? I might work and there are different sizes to choose from so one might fit your needs.
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62 Newport
Posted 2018-08-15 1:38 PM (#568488 - in reply to #568451)
Subject: RE: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Posts: 16

Location: Västerås Sweden
You can use the glass as a template, I did it and it worked well.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-15 3:37 PM (#568492 - in reply to #568488)
Subject: RE: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
62 Newport - 2018-08-15 1:38 PM
You can use the glass as a template, I did it and it worked well.


Thanks. I tried that. (Twice). Didn't really work (for me). I am going to make a template out of 3/4" plywood and create a jig. Hopefully that will work.

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-16 1:13 AM (#568509 - in reply to #568492)
Subject: RE: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
56D500boy - 2018-08-15 3:37 PM
Thanks. I tried that. (Twice). Didn't really work (for me). I am going to make a template out of 3/4" plywood and create a jig. Hopefully that will work.
:)


So that is what I did. I removed everything from the door (glass is the last item out) and scribed the top of the glass onto a piece of 3/4" plywood that I had. Then I cut along the scribed line with my Bosch jig-saw and then used my belt sander to bring it all to the scribed line.

Then I clamped the jig to my WorkMate and cut another 4 ft piece of flexible channel. I used the channel from yesterday's attempt to mark where the channel needed to start at the vent-window end. Then I clamped the channel in place and started the very gentle bend, clamping as I did so. When I got to the 90 degree bend I clamped my portable vise onto the jig and used it to restrict the lateral movement of the channel as I continued the bending, using the long arm of the channel as a lever. Going very slowly, it seemed to work well, at least much better than yesterday's trial.

I can now use the jig for the other rear door when I get to that one. I will make a jig for the front door window and use that jig to bend a channel for the front passenger door. I think that I will then go back and bend a new channel for the driver's door, not that I know what to do.

When I installed the new flexible channel (the last thing into the door), I massaged the bend a bit more by hand, being very cautious about over bending or kinking. Tomorrow I will screw the bottom end of the flexible channel to the removable channel guide and glue the rest of the channel to the door with black urethane window sealant, using the window as the "clamp" until the sealant sets up.

Here are a few photos from today:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-08-16 1:17 AM




(BendingAFlexibleSedanWindowChannelOverAWindowJig.jpg)



(ComparisonOfAHandBentChannelToAChannelBentOnAJig_1.jpg)



(TriallingTheJigBentChannelInTheCar.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments BendingAFlexibleSedanWindowChannelOverAWindowJig.jpg (178KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments ComparisonOfAHandBentChannelToAChannelBentOnAJig_1.jpg (160KB - 55 downloads)
Attachments TriallingTheJigBentChannelInTheCar.jpg (157KB - 48 downloads)
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60 dart
Posted 2018-08-16 4:06 AM (#568513 - in reply to #568451)
Subject: Re: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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maybe try cutting the back channel to bend easier in several places ------------------------------------------------------------later
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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-18 1:04 PM (#568597 - in reply to #568451)
Subject: RE: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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This guy makes it look easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc5cdwxXo5g
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-18 3:33 PM (#568602 - in reply to #568597)
Subject: RE: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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57chizler - 2018-08-18 1:04 PM
This guy makes it look easy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc5cdwxXo5g

Sorry. But his idea was good but the piece of wood that he used (about the thickness of the door glass) is too thin if you don't restrain the edges of the channel. (He didn't).

End result = a kink (small but noticeable - to me)



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-08-18 3:35 PM




(WindowChannelBendingFAIL.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments WindowChannelBendingFAIL.jpg (119KB - 53 downloads)
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-02 12:28 PM (#569426 - in reply to #568451)
Subject: Re: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly


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Location: port leyden ny
Here is the trick! Look at the ends of your new channels. They had been cut off with side cutters or some kind o tool that pinch’s as it cuts. Cut both ends off with a cot off wheel. This will allow the stainless bead to slip on the channel and not kink. Figured this out a long time ago
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-02 12:36 PM (#569427 - in reply to #569426)
Subject: Re: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Mackey58 - 2018-09-02 12:28 PM
Here is the trick! Look at the ends of your new channels. They had been cut off with side cutters or some kind o tool that pinch’s as it cuts. Cut both ends off with a cot off wheel. This will allow the stainless bead to slip on the channel and not kink. Figured this out a long time ago


Maybe but I am not convinced. The beads moved just fine at both ends, i.e. not restricted. That said, I will recut the next one I do with my Dremel cutoff wheel. However, I will also be creating a front (sedan) door bending template (from 3/4" plywood) like I did (eventually) with the back door. If that works, I am going to redo the original (left front) door that I did last year.

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-07 2:11 PM (#569768 - in reply to #569427)
Subject: Re: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
56D500boy - 2018-09-02 12:36 PM
Maybe but I am not convinced. The beads moved just fine at both ends, i.e. not restricted. That said, I will recut the next one I do with my Dremel cutoff wheel. However, I will also be creating a front (sedan) door bending template (from 3/4" plywood) like I did (eventually) with the back door. If that works, I am going to redo the original (left front) door that I did last year.
:)


Which is what I did except this time, I rough cut the new front door 3/4" plywood bending form to the shape of the top of the window and then I place the form into the door (in the channel location) and scribed the form to the edge of the metal of the door, i.e. where I want the stainless steel bead to sit. Then I recut the form - which meant removing about 3/8" to 1/2" of material of the original front door form. After a quick sand with my belt sander, I set the form up like I did last time, with several types of clamps, including a portable vise-type clamp that I used to restrain the form as I bend it around the curve. I had to "massage" the channel a bit to encourage the stainless steel beads to slide (which they then did). After the bending, I trimmed of the beads with my Dremel and a EZ-cut cut-off wheel.

The result was the best yet so I will redo the other front door (which was my first try - with out a bending form).

The clamping set-up (same photo as for the rear door - repeated here to show the type of set-up I used again - only with a new form). Followed by the new form and final result. (I see now from the photo that my form was not as perfectly matched to the door frame as I thought or intended - close but no cigar - but it worked pretty well):





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-07 2:15 PM




(56Dodge4drFrontDoorFlexibleChannelBendingForm_1.jpg)



(56Dodge4drFrontDoorFlexibleChannelBendingForm_2.jpg)



(56Dodge4drFrontDoorFlexibleChannelBendingForm_Result.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56Dodge4drFrontDoorFlexibleChannelBendingForm_1.jpg (149KB - 44 downloads)
Attachments 56Dodge4drFrontDoorFlexibleChannelBendingForm_2.jpg (111KB - 45 downloads)
Attachments 56Dodge4drFrontDoorFlexibleChannelBendingForm_Result.jpg (139KB - 46 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-08-16 1:28 AM (#586070 - in reply to #569768)
Subject: Re: Need help with bending flexible window channels properly



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
For the past week or so I have been working on "betterifying"(tm) (improving) the last of my four doors. This involves stripping the inside of the door of windows, scraping the tar sound deadener/rust proofing out, cleaning the interior surface of the door, spraying it with Rust Converter (some residual surface rust), painting (Zero Rust then Tremclad Rust paint) and finally adding Dynomat (to kill the steel drum effect of the empty door).

Following that I replace the old fixed (straight/rigid) window channel on the vent window frame (pop rivetted it to the frame) and then bending new flexible window channel.

I used the same 3/4" plywood bending form that I made and used on the right rear door (as shown below), but I failed. One of the edges of the channel properly bent to the contours of the form but the other edge, which I failed to control (enough) kinked. Furthermore, when I pushed the bent part further into the bend of the door, it pulled away from the vertical fixed channel by about 1/2" which was unacceptable.

This is what I was doing yesterday (using the previous photo as example):



Today, after purchasing some more flexible channel from the "Old Car Center", I decided to take a different tact, i.e. I made a new form using a piece of 2 x 3 lumber (cut, recut, sand, etc until it closely matched the required contour of the door (checked and rechecked)). I laid the form on it's side on my old abused Black and Decker Work mate. Then I placed the flexible window channel on its side, on the Work Mate and I drilled a hole in the channel (near the fixed end). I then screwed the window channel to the form about 1/2" from the end of the form. This meant that there would be no movement there as I worked the 90 degree bend. I added a few clamps on the length of the channel and form to help contain and control the widow channel.

Then, I started making the 90 deg bend. VERY SLOWLY. Working the bend around the form, making sure that the stainless trim was moving and not binding anything *AND*, most importantly, that both sides of the channel were bending smoothly, without kinks. Going very slowly, I eventually completed the bend.

Then I took the clamps off the channel, removed that one restraining screw and took the channel to the car for trialling. I worked the channel into the front vertical portion of the door and pushed the bent part up into the door, taking care not to unduly over bend/kink anything. Then I checked the other end at the fixed vent window frame and marked the channel for trimming (I purposely left it a bit long after yesterday's shrinkage episode).

After trimming and retesting the channel, I went about reassembling the door. I sort of forgot the sequence but eventually realized/remembered that the big up and down window has to be reinstalled first, before anything else. The you can feed in the vent window frame and set the window into the new vertical channel. Then the flexible channel can be added by feeding the channel down over the window edge.

The final result using the thicker form is much better than using the thinner (3/4" thick) form from last year, and MUCH MUCH better than the first (left front) door I did back in 2016 when I did the bend by hand over the window glass (out of the car). I have some flexible channel left so there is a strong possibility that I will go back into that left front door and replace the flexible channel.

Experience - also known as "How to make mistakes and learn from them".

Today's work (starting with yesterday's thin form fail):



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-08-16 8:50 AM




(56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBendingFail_ThinBendingForm.jpg)



(56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBending_ThickForm_Start.jpg)



(56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBending_ThickForm_PartWay.jpg)



(56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBending_ThickForm_Done.jpg)



(56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannel_BentOnThickForm_Inplace.jpg)



(56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannel_BentOnThickForm_Inplace_ComparedToLeftFrontDoor.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBendingFail_ThinBendingForm.jpg (99KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBending_ThickForm_Start.jpg (213KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBending_ThickForm_PartWay.jpg (152KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannelBending_ThickForm_Done.jpg (128KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannel_BentOnThickForm_Inplace.jpg (115KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLeftRearDoorWindowChannel_BentOnThickForm_Inplace_ComparedToLeftFrontDoor.jpg (116KB - 2 downloads)
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