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413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-05 7:59 PM (#569657)
Subject: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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Hey guys
Have a 1960 New Yorker 413.
When I got it, it had a near new 2" twin exhaust with and has a pair of 16" straight through glass pack mufflers.
Its surprisingly very quiet but drones at cruise really badly.

Any opinions on how to get rid of the drone?
I dont want to go quieter as you can barely hear it now and Id like it to have a decent rumble but without the drone.
In fact Id be happy to go a bit louder out back if thats what it takes but want to get rid of the drone either way.

Ive been told adding an H pipe might help?

Or maybe removing the mufflers and replacing with resonators?

Any info appreciated.

TIA

Marc

 



Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-09-05 8:00 PM
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Shep
Posted 2018-09-05 8:07 PM (#569658 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Anything you do is kinda experimental. Some exhaust extensions can also cause this.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-05 11:49 PM (#569668 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Glasspacks in oval containers do drone more - at least all the ones that I have tried. If you replace them with turbo style mufflers, that would help. Also, it is best to get them as long as possible. 16 inches isn't very long, but it looks like you may have to do some re-routing to fit longer ones in there now. For that reason, I don't like to angle the mufflers like that. Also, I don't really understand the benefit of putting the exhaust right next to the driveshaft.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-05 11:55 PM (#569669 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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Would you consider adding a hot dog or resonator further upstream of any benefit?
The local shop reckons an H pipe but I have my doubts.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-06 12:05 AM (#569672 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Anything extra will help, but you will be increasing the back pressure too. I have tried H-pipes and it didn't change things very much. Not worth the trouble in the end.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-09-06 2:53 PM (#569699 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: RE: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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I'd try to fit a resonator in the tailpipe if there's room, size will depend on your pipe diameter.

https://aeroexhaust.com/i-30497562-aero-exhaust-resonator-tr20-tr-se...
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-06 2:57 PM (#569700 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Take a photo on your end pipes - you have what looks like the very same system that I have on my '60 Saratoga and I have no drone in any conditions.

Is the butterfly valve frozen partly shut?
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1960fury
Posted 2018-09-06 3:44 PM (#569704 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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What Chizler said, tailpipes.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-06 4:58 PM (#569709 - in reply to #569699)
Subject: RE: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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57chizler - 2018-09-07 5:53 AM

I'd try to fit a resonator in the tailpipe if there's room, size will depend on your pipe diameter.

https://aeroexhaust.com/i-30497562-aero-exhaust-resonator-tr20-tr-se...

Thanks for that

Does the resonator have to be in the tailpipe?
Dont think I have room there but I would have in the engine pipe before the mufflers.




.

Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-09-06 8:46 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-06 5:02 PM (#569710 - in reply to #569700)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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wizard - 2018-09-07 5:57 AM

Take a photo on your end pipes - you have what looks like the very same system that I have on my '60 Saratoga and I have no drone in any conditions.

Is the butterfly valve frozen partly shut?


Butterfly vavle?

If thats the assembly that used to be part of the cast iron manifold, it appears to have been removed decades ago.

 

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fravizo
Posted 2018-09-07 6:04 AM (#569742 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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I´ve got the H pipe 1.8", exhaust pipe 2.5", oval mufflers 20" long and at the interval between 40-50 mph the car (New Yorker 61) drones. Quite a loud and impacting sound.
I´m also looking for some solution to this.
Johan

Edited by fravizo 2018-09-07 6:27 AM




(EXHAUST H PIPE.jpg)



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Attachments EXHAUST H PIPE.jpg (247KB - 3 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-07 12:47 PM (#569755 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Ok, it seems like that the both of you have the very same exhaust systems as I have.

The butterfly valve is indeed the valve in the right exhaust mainfold - if it's removed it means that it cannot cause this type of probems.

The Saratogas and New Yorkers should have a front muffler as well (and Imperials) - I don't have these front mufflers and no drone at all.

So, since the tail pipes are the same as mine, your solution might be to install front mufflers (resonators?) or resonators in the tail pipes




(Exhaust.png)



Attachments
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Attachments Exhaust.png (118KB - 3 downloads)
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-09-07 12:49 PM (#569756 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Installing a dead-ended piece of extra pipe, T-connected to one tube of the exhaust can help greatly reducing drone-noise.
Length of the added tubing is important and needs to be tuned/calculated to the exhaust.

Exmaple;




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wizard
Posted 2018-09-07 12:55 PM (#569758 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Smart - a pulsation damper!!!!! Great - thanks for sharing
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-09-07 6:56 PM (#569781 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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I had doubts what it was called again in my previous but remembered this setup is usually called an exhaust helmholtz resonator.
Look it up with Google Images to get the idea.

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wizard
Posted 2018-09-08 8:17 AM (#569806 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Ok, Helmholtz resonator - thanks' for the correct name Herman.


Practically it works like a pulsation damper (usually installed in water pipe systems).
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-08 8:38 AM (#569807 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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Marc, I saw in your other photos that your car has straight end pipes coming out under the rear bumper - on the phot above you have the "correct" end pipes.

Which version has the droning sound?
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-09 5:15 AM (#569837 - in reply to #569807)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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wizard - 2018-09-08 11:38 PM

Marc, I saw in your other photos that your car has straight end pipes coming out under the rear bumper - on the phot above you have the "correct" end pipes.

Which version has the droning sound?


Pretty much the same.
Although Im driving it a lot more more!
Could that little bit on the end be responsible for the drone?

 



Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-09-09 5:29 AM
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-09 7:33 AM (#569839 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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I really don't know Marc, but judging by your photos we have the very same exhaust system and the engine difference is only 30 cui.

Just demount the extensions and check which result you'll get.

If you like to keep the tail pipes under the bumper, then I recommend that you clean all the chrome and wax it very often……...
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-09 5:52 PM (#569865 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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Location: Sydney
Extensions are welded
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fravizo
Posted 2018-09-11 12:20 PM (#569959 - in reply to #569781)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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BigBlockMopar - 2018-09-08 12:56 AM

I had doubts what it was called again in my previous but remembered this setup is usually called an exhaust helmholtz resonator.
Look it up with Google Images to get the idea.



Thanks, very interesting should be a "game changer" to that annoying drone as I read so far
and it's worth a try to figure out how to measure and where to place the dead ended T-pipes,
after an accurately tuned in engine.
Just a thought, cut the H-pipe in the middle and close the openings. Maybe not a good idea as
some say that the H-pipe lessens the drone sound
Another thougt, the tailpipes are cut horizontically to the ground, could that create resonance
to the trunk and the gas tank?
Yet another thought, have I got too large a volume in the 2.5" exhaust pipes?




(DSC_0589.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments DSC_0589.JPG (248KB - 3 downloads)
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-09-11 2:30 PM (#569961 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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I don't think for one minute the end of a full exhaust-system has any effect on causing drone or not.
Droning is a combination of either both mufflers producing the same noises which are amplified, and/or cause floorboard-sheetmetal to resonate along with the muffler noise.

I also think the type of exhaust hanger could be a good candidate for causing interior noise/drone. Is the exhaust hung on the frame rails (near the mufflers), or, for instance the bolts of the rear seatbelt brackets?
How much rubber is used between the hanger and the mount on the car?
Also lack of proper (heavy/tarmac) sound-deadening could 'help' the drone-noise carry itself further into the cabin.

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1960fury
Posted 2018-09-11 2:46 PM (#569962 - in reply to #569961)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone



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BigBlockMopar - 2018-09-11 2:30 PM

I don't think for one minute the end of a full exhaust-system has any effect on causing drone or not.




But i do. At least in my car, it has.
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fravizo
Posted 2018-09-11 5:29 PM (#569975 - in reply to #569657)
Subject: Re: 413 New Yorker Exhaust Drone


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Good info, will check the hinges close to the mufflers if they could emit vibrations, whether the rubber isolators is large enough
and as a obvious step should be to dampening the interior of the trunk floor, wheel houses and against the back seat might do a difference.
Gonna check this company: http://www.swedac-acoustic.com/products/luftljudsabsorbenter/
And to figure out if there's any drone effect of the downward pipes if i attach straight pipes/flexible tubes to those
Thanks, for a lot of useful approaches

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