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Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?
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57chizler
Posted 2020-02-20 2:53 PM (#594576 - in reply to #594388)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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58Jackie - 2020-02-16 6:30 PM

Can i use my existing rear axle, reuseing just the housing of it, and put in a new center section, and new flange axles to replace those horrible tapered ones?


The original taper axle bearing presses on the axle shaft from the outside, therefore there is no bearing retaining collar. The flange axle bearing presses onto the shaft from the inside and uses a retaining collar, therefore the bore in the housing end needs to be deeper so the collar will clear the inner seal.

Because the taper axle uses no collar, the bore at the end of the axle housing is more shallow and factory flange axle bearing collar will interfere with the inner seal. The only way to make a flange axle work in an early housing is to use the Green bearing with a modified retainer and eliminate the inner seal. The Green bearing is a ball bearing as opposed to the factory Timken roller bearing.

Some dislike the Green bearing.

Edited by 57chizler 2020-02-20 2:54 PM
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NC Adventurer
Posted 2020-02-20 6:43 PM (#594591 - in reply to #572441)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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sonaramic300 - 2018-10-26 10:05 PM

Locked wheels stop well? What are you people thinking. Since the mid1980's we have had antilock brakes, they never lock or SKID and the car stops much quicker.


Antilock brakes are not about stopping in shorter distances. They were introduced to enhance the control people unaccustomed to skidding experienced.

Ever notice the disclaimers on commercials that says "Professional driver, professional course" and "Don't try this in your car?" Experienced - professionals - understand how to power in and out of a skid, they understand how to maneuver using the power, weight distribution and basic physics to make a vehicle do what they want it to do, not what it wants to do. The average driver doesn't take the time to learn their own vehicle or its responses to emergency actions. Like everything else in life, things have to be "dumbed down" to protect people from themselves and their environment.
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58Jackie
Posted 2020-02-20 7:20 PM (#594594 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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I guess it may be easier now to replace the entire rear end. Found this. Mopar 8 3/4. Not cheap, no, but all new, disc brakes, and custom length and pinion offsets which is great to make it work in my car. Now, to answer some of your guys questions to why I'm doing this, i researched what a big pain these tapered axles are... the hub/drum are a one piece unit, have to use a special puller to get it off, and i havent found any disc brake setups that bolt in for the rear either.
Heres that new rear...
https://www.moserengineering.com/stamped-housing-mopar-8-3-4-musclep...
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-02-20 8:05 PM (#594597 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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The special puller will cost you $100 used, and works great if you get the right one made by Snap-on or Blue Point. After that it is a piece of cake. Most of the trouble that people have is from using a sub-standard puller. We already told you that AAJ makes the disc brake kit for your original rear. But paying $3700+shipping, and you don't even get brakes with it, sounds like a lot more pain than I would be willing to tolerate. It's not like you are building an 800hp drag car. are you? The best approach to a new style rear is to find a C-body or B-body rear in your local craigslist or wrecking yard. As far as the gears, I have purchased numerous used gear sets from swap meets - like 40 to 50 of them and have never rebuilt any of them or ever had any issues with them. Save your money for things that matter, not for things that don't. Otherwise a fool and his money are soon parted.
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58Jackie
Posted 2020-02-20 9:14 PM (#594604 - in reply to #594597)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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So would a c or b body mopar rear be the same width dimensions, or do i need to do fab work? What year c/b body?
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-02-20 11:23 PM (#594606 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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The '65-'69 C body rear is just slightly wider than stock, but is a direct bolt in. No changes at all except the brake hose mount is a little further inboard on the new axle. So you can move it or use a longer brake hose. The B-body axle is a little narrower than stock and may make it easier to fit wider tires under the car without custom backspace wheels. However, the perches have to be moved & welded on it because they are different than your original positions. Use a '68-'70 B body rear as it is a little wider than the earlier ones.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-21 1:33 AM (#594609 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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ive never seen a c body axle for sale....
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58Jackie
Posted 2020-02-21 7:14 PM (#594642 - in reply to #594609)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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mikes2nd - 2020-02-21 12:33 AM

ive never seen a c body axle for sale....


My point, to why i found the aftermarket custom one. True, its pricey, but.....
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-02-21 7:56 PM (#594645 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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I would sell you one for half that price! You could even get an entire C-body car for that price. You just have to look around for them and for parts cars.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-22 5:55 AM (#594662 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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IIRC one FL-member posted, that there is no non-FL axle that has the spring perches in the same location (width) as the 57-61 units. If you think 1/8" does not count, this is like saying a 1/8" change in toe in at the front does not matter. The rear axle steers just like the front axle. Keep the OE axles, it is better and period correct.
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58Jackie
Posted 2020-02-29 2:02 PM (#594991 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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Just need to know this now, what is the correct length, and pinion angle? Thanks.
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Charlie8575
Posted 2020-04-06 1:03 AM (#596485 - in reply to #570259)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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1960fury - 2018-09-17 3:11 PM

jboymechanic - 2018-09-17 11:53 AM


Your comment does raise one question though, when would I want to lock the tires for shorter stopping distances?



Snow and Gravel.


This actually goes a long way to explaining why I've had trouble with ABS brakes in the snow. I've actually taken my foot of the brake and reapplied them in a matter of a second or two to get the brakes to grip. I've also been known to pump them to disable the ABS because it no longer knows what it's doing.

Charlie Larkin
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-04-06 2:08 AM (#596489 - in reply to #594991)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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58Jackie - 2020-02-29 2:02 PM Just need to know this now, what is the correct length, and pinion angle? Thanks.

axle is 59 inches, pinion angle is proably 2-3

I am going to roll out on stock for now, but future state is a cut ford 8.8 posi alxe i think...  to center it

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phish1270
Posted 2020-05-25 11:20 AM (#598765 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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I just bought a 1961 Dart Phoenix 4 door. Any more info on swapping in the Ford 8.8? It looks like the spring perches need to be moved? Does offset housing make a difference? Will 14" rims fit on the 8.8 with disc brakes? The C Body rears are still harder to find, my local pull your part lots have dozens of Explorers & rears are $150 complete. I want to keep my 14" rims though. Has anyone actually done this swap & have real life experience? I don't have buckets full of money but I am not a fan at all of this car's brake system. I want easier to work on & easier to find parts. I am planning the Scarebird front disc conversion which they now say will work with 14" rims. I just need some info on converting the rear to anything but what it has now. Thanks for the info & great website guys.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-05-25 11:37 AM (#598767 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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the new scarebird kit works with 14 inch rims.

unless you want to cut the axle you cant use a ford 8.8 because they are all offset. Some mustangs used a center aligned diff?

But I am considering that route also. You also have to check the ratio.

you want like 3.3 or whatever is close to your stock one.

You take out the long axle of the ford 8.8 and swap it with another short axle and put it in your 8.8 you getting at the pull a part.

then cut it using the short axle.

There is a good youtube video on cutting the axle. its not that bad.

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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-25 12:20 PM (#598769 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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You could just convert the original axle to disc brakes using a kit from AAJ if that's your only goal.
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hecksheads
Posted 2020-05-28 4:51 PM (#598908 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: RE: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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I've done the 8.8 swap in my Desoto. You don't need to cut it. It's about 60" wide. You will need to cut the spring perches and sway bar mounts off. You buy new Mopar spring perches at Summit for like $25. The pinion offset on these rearends is about 3" but the driveshaft tunnel is wide enough. I have no clearance problems. The 8.8 comes in various ratios in the explorer from 3.08 to 4.10, many with posi. I went with the 3.73 ratio. I know some can't stand the thought of putting a Ford axle in their Mopar but I don't mind. Where else are you going to get 3.73 ratio, posi and disc brakes with a parking brake for $140? I'll see if I have some pictures to post.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-05-28 10:51 PM (#598929 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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hmm they are 59 inches with a 2 inch offset... Hmm now you got me thinking if it fits even better? I can handle the width with offset.

What rims did you use?
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hecksheads
Posted 2020-05-29 1:08 AM (#598933 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: RE: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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I'm using 15"x7" Diplomat wheels but 14" should fit.



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Attachments SANY0939__1590729281_30267.jpg (67KB - 22 downloads)
Attachments SANY0937__1590728504_75163.jpg (57KB - 24 downloads)
Attachments SANY0948__1590729222_88987.jpg (47KB - 22 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-05-29 10:28 AM (#598943 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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darn that looks good, did you hook the parking brake up?

I know you can get real high ratios... Crown vics have like 2.73...

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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-05-30 10:57 PM (#599016 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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what car did you get your rear axle from? I see all kinds... some 62, 61... etc.
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phish1270
Posted 2020-06-04 1:32 PM (#599235 - in reply to #598933)
Subject: RE: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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hecksheads - 2020-05-29 1:08 AM

I'm using 15"x7" Diplomat wheels but 14" should fit.


I sent you a PM, hoping for a little advice/help. Thanks
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-06-04 3:03 PM (#599238 - in reply to #599016)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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mikes2nd - 2020-05-30 9:57 PM

what car did you get your rear axle from? I see all kinds... some 62, 61... etc.
If you're going to change axles, @ least go with a modern one.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-06-04 5:48 PM (#599249 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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i was meaning 61 inches, 62 inches... not the year
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big m
Posted 2020-06-04 6:49 PM (#599257 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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I still have drum brakes on 3 out of 4 of my daily driver FL cars. There is no argument that disc brakes perform better, but the drums are sufficient for me as I don't do a lot of big city driving where I live, and it's easy to keep distance between the other cars on the road.

For folks that have grown up using disc brakes, especially driving lightweight cars that stop on a dime, the drum brakes would be unacceptable to them.

---John
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-06-04 11:26 PM (#599273 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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I am just looking at drum restoration costs...

for one drum i can buy a whole rear axle. I get performance, posi, ease of maintenance, a great parking brake setup for 1/3 the price and better ratio.

Since my car isn't original i don't mind. Restoring all original drums isnt that cheap and i have an open diff.

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Mopar1
Posted 2020-06-05 10:48 AM (#599289 - in reply to #599273)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?



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mikes2nd - 2020-06-04 10:26 PM

for one drum i can buy a whole rear axle. I get performance, posi, ease of maintenance, a great parking brake setup for 1/3 the price and better ratio.

Since my car isn't original i don't mind. Restoring all original drums isnt that cheap and i have an open diff.

Even modern drum brake all the way around is an improvement. Modern axle in the back & disc or drum spindles up front.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-06-05 9:29 PM (#599314 - in reply to #570036)
Subject: Re: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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okay pre 95 is drum... disc is 95-2001 Explorers. 2002 went to independent suspension so that's out. I found a posi axle today out of a 2001 2dr Explorer ill yank tommorow. There was a 2000 Sport Explorer but that axle was grabbed quick because it has like a 4.11 stout posi, 31 spline axles.

These are 59.70 inch mounting surface to mounting surface. You can't get much more of a perfect replacement. Ill probably do a vid on it.

I think mine is probably 28 spline axles. I will clean it up and order new brakes all around for it. I don't know the ratio though, i can change that easily, im thinking 3.27. Screws up the speedo though. 3.55 is fine also.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-06-06 8:57 PM (#599348 - in reply to #598933)
Subject: RE: Opinion- Disc or restore drum brakes?


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hecksheads - 2020-05-29 1:08 AM I'm using 15"x7" Diplomat wheels but 14" should fit.

 

How is the 3.73 ratio work fo you?  I see 3.54 and 3.73 ratio were pretty much the go to ratios, 6 cylinders used 3.31?

 

 

 

 

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