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Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.
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Justinsane
Posted 2018-09-30 11:08 PM (#570989)
Subject: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



2525
Location: Binghamton NY
The engine in my 1956 Plymouth belvedere is blown, i am in the process of finding another engine for it. It's a 277 with a powerflite transmission. What i am wondering is if it is possible to put a flathead six 230 in there. I've been told the bell housing on the transmission is different for V8s so it won't bolt up. What i have is a flathead 6 that has a torqueflite transmission on it that came out of a 1955 plymouth. Is it possible to remove the bellhousing off the torqueflite and put it on the powerflite thats in my car so the six cylinder will bolt to it? Has anyone done this before? It's only temporary so i can move it around and maybe drive it a bit until i find a new poly engine for it. Any information will help, i can't find much information on it. I'm working off a Motors auto repair book, 55' 56' plymouth service manual, and whatever literature i can find online but can't find anyone who has tried it yet.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-01 1:06 AM (#570994 - in reply to #570989)
Subject: Re: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



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A 1955 Plymouth would not have come with a 3 speed Torqueflite. If it is indeed a 3 speed, it would be from a later year. If it is the '55 Plymouth trans, it would be a Powerflite, just like the '56. I haven't done the swap either, but I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to swap the bellhousings if they are both Powerflites. If one is a Powerflite, and the other is a Torqueflite, I doubt that the bellhousings will swap over, but I am not certain. But, if there is an issue with doing that, then there is nothing to stop you from just swapping the trans over with the motor. You can shift a Torqueflite the same as a Powerflite, you just won't be able to access 1st gear with your selector.
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Justinsane
Posted 2018-10-01 3:26 PM (#571022 - in reply to #570994)
Subject: Re: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



2525
Location: Binghamton NY
Powerflite - 2018-10-01 1:06 AM

A 1955 Plymouth would not have come with a 3 speed Torqueflite. If it is indeed a 3 speed, it would be from a later year. If it is the '55 Plymouth trans, it would be a Powerflite, just like the '56. I haven't done the swap either, but I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to swap the bellhousings if they are both Powerflites. If one is a Powerflite, and the other is a Torqueflite, I doubt that the bellhousings will swap over, but I am not certain. But, if there is an issue with doing that, then there is nothing to stop you from just swapping the trans over with the motor. You can shift a Torqueflite the same as a Powerflite, you just won't be able to access 1st gear with your selector.

Thank you, it must be a powerflite. I just wasn't certain because the gear selector on the 55 had the handle on the dash that went from reverse, neutral, drive, and low. The 56 has the push button selector on the dash, same amount of gears, i definitely see they are the same now though, thank you! It looks like the only difference are the lever assemblies. I could probably just change them over. I wonder if i'll run into troubles with changing bell housings. There is a torque converter in there right? I should keep the one from the six cylinder on it i'm thinking.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-01 3:46 PM (#571023 - in reply to #570989)
Subject: Re: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



Expert

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Location: So. California
Since they are both powerflites and if the new transmission works, then I would just swap the new trans in there too. Just keep it all as one unit. But if you need to keep your original trans in there for some reason, then there won't be any issue with swapping them. I am not sure if the 6 cylinder used a different converter, but it is possible, and it would be a real pain to change it, so definitely leave those with their respective motors, along with the bell housings too. Shouldn't be real difficult to do if you have the motor mount & linkage changeover taken care of.

But be sure to check and see if the V8 steering linkage will work with the six motor. They used different linkage and I'm not sure why, so it needs to be checked out.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-01 3:48 PM
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Justinsane
Posted 2018-10-02 2:04 AM (#571041 - in reply to #571023)
Subject: Re: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



2525
Location: Binghamton NY
I'm definitely going to put the transmission and flathead in as a unit! I have to search ebay for a motor mount that goes on the front of the flathead. I might have to make one if i can't find one. The original one got torched off accidentally when i took the motor out last year. It's one of those mistakes i regret doing. I didn't even save the pieces!!
Thanks for the heads up on the steering linkages and for saving me a lot of trouble down the road. I've got the blown motor pretty much ready to come out. I just have to remove the frame the radiator bolted to so i can pull it out the front with the transmission attached. I'll take all the measurements and see what i'll have to do when it's out of there. I'm going to post pictures of the process just in case anyone else decides to go this route.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-02 11:57 AM (#571056 - in reply to #571023)
Subject: Re: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



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Powerflite - 2018-10-01 3:46 PM
But be sure to check and see if the V8 steering linkage will work with the six motor. They used different linkage and I'm not sure why, so it needs to be checked out.


The six cylinder cars must have had the sump in a different location than the V8 cars. As a result, the six cylinder cars had one short (left side) and one long (right side) tie rods. This didn't work for the V8s (I presume that the long tie rod would have hit the V8 sump). As a result, the V8 cars have a much more complicated tie-rod system, with equal length outer tie rods, but an inner tie rod and idler arm arrangement that the six cylinder cars did not need.

The V8 tie rod system followed by a side-by-side comparison of the six (left) and V8 (right) systems:


Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-02 12:03 PM




(56DodgeIdlerArmAndBushingsDiagram.jpg)



(55-56SixAndV8FrontTieRodArrangements.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeIdlerArmAndBushingsDiagram.jpg (118KB - 19 downloads)
Attachments 55-56SixAndV8FrontTieRodArrangements.jpg (139KB - 15 downloads)
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Justinsane
Posted 2018-10-08 11:23 PM (#571366 - in reply to #571056)
Subject: Re: Any information in regards to swapping a 277 V8 to a Flathead 6 230.



2525
Location: Binghamton NY
Thank you so much for the information!! It is very interesting!! My set up looks like the one on the right. I'll look into it some more and make some measurements this week. I don't think the tie rod ends will hit the oil pan. I'll confirm it and post some pictures. The V8s oil pans sump is towards the front of the vehicle, just behind the cross member. The center link has clearance in where the oil pan curves back up, one side of the exhaust is routed through there too. From the input face of the transmission bell housing, to the sump on the engine is 10 3/4" on the v8 and the six cylinder. The oil pans look identical. Again, i'll confirm it with photos and more measurements this week. I'm hoping it will work, i don't want to change the steering linkages or have to search around for a different pan and sump.
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