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60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-06 10:40 PM (#571239)
Subject: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


Veteran

Posts: 101
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Location: Sydney

Hi all

Any ideas as to why I get a pool of engine oil in the valley cover under the manifold.
This is after I mopped it out and requires cleaning up every few hundred miles.
TIA



Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-10-06 10:41 PM
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-07 2:45 AM (#571247 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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A well known fact is that the 4-bolt valve covers needs to be perfectly straight, no "dimples" around the bolts, good quality gaskets for to not leak.

Check this fiirst of all...
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-07 2:57 AM (#571248 - in reply to #571247)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Posts: 101
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Location: Sydney
wizard - 2018-10-07 5:45 PM

A well known fact is that the 4-bolt valve covers needs to be perfectly straight, no "dimples" around the bolts, good quality gaskets for to not leak.

Check this fiirst of all...


Yes, first thing I checked, new expensive gaskets installed too.
Theres is no leak around the covers.
It has been the same since Ive owned the car and that was my first thought but it does not appear to be the case and no change since cleaning up and new gaskets fitted.
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-07 3:24 AM (#571249 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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Clogged ventilation? Check the oil filler cap and the evacuation pipe…


More farefetched, small rust hole in the valley pan
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-07 3:33 AM (#571250 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Location: Sydney
Im running a PCV on the right feeding into the manifold and an open breather on the left.

Hope its not a rust hole

Is very inaccessible to even have a good look
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-07 8:28 AM (#571254 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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VC leaks usually not into the valey pan but well known on BB is oil coming thru the intake bolt holes, mostly on the passenger side with a working heat riser. Easy cure. Other possible source is the edges on the valey pan gasket. You need to install it with some sealant.
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christine-lover
Posted 2018-10-07 10:26 AM (#571258 - in reply to #571254)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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If worst comes to worst, you can add dye to the oil and check with a detection light.
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ABloch
Posted 2018-10-07 11:15 AM (#571261 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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I'm with Sid on this one. Take the afternoon and redo the valley pan. If you prepare for that process then once the manifold comes off you'll most likely discover the leak.

(don't forget to follow up on what you discover and how you repair it. For posterity.)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-07 4:20 PM (#571275 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Location: Sydney
Thanks guys.
Will try sealing the bolt holes and threads first.
Im really hesitant to disturb the manifold and valley cover unless absolutely necessary.
As we all know, before you know it, one thing always leads to ten more things

If that does not help then I might bite the bullet and remove the manifold and cover.
And then that will probably end up in a rebuild ......DOH!

For what its worth, I do not have a working heat riser.

Anyone know off the top of their heads what the torque spec is for the manifold bolts?

Thanks again
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ABloch
Posted 2018-10-07 4:57 PM (#571277 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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50 foot lb.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-07 5:22 PM (#571281 - in reply to #571277)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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ABloch - 2018-10-08 7:57 AM

50 foot lb.


Thanks
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-07 5:26 PM (#571282 - in reply to #571277)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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ABloch - 2018-10-07 4:57 PM

50 foot lb.


I could be wrong, but from what I remember it is 40 pounds. Follow the FSM sequence and do small steps, not the full torque at once. It is a dry manifold so it is not a big job and if yours still got the factory insulation, discard it and do not replace!

Checked, it is indeed 50 ft/lb, 40 is the recommendation from Mopar Performance for the aluminum manifolds.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-07 5:31 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-07 5:41 PM (#571284 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Posts: 101
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Location: Sydney
Thanks for that.
What is the factory insulation you are referring to?

My first thought was to do one bolt at a time, clean and apply sealant without removing the manifold.
Not a good idea maybe???
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-07 5:55 PM (#571287 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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The insulation is the glass-wool stuff in the valley pan under the intake, mostly soaked with oil. The problem with sealing the bolt holes with sealant is, the holes are oily and you would have to clean them first, which requires removal of the intake or an oil change, if you flush them with brake cleaner. You may try sealing them with teflon tape, without cleaning (never tried that, but should work), but not sure how this would affect the torque specs.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-07 5:56 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-07 6:09 PM (#571289 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Posts: 101
100
Location: Sydney
Good idea with the tape.
I have nothing between the manifold and valley pan except fresh air.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-08 3:27 AM (#571309 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Posts: 101
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Location: Sydney
Ok, thanks for all the input. I really dont want to disturb too much, so, Ive taken all the bolts out one by one, cleaned and used some teflon tape on them and re-torqued them all.
All seemed like the had never been touched except for the rear most RHS which wasnt tight and for some reason had a spacer nut on it as well (just see it in the top of the pic).
I did check and it is the same length as all the other bolts so no idea what the intent of that was.
Just another discovered bodgy job I guess.
See how it goes now. Thanks for the help again

Just for curiosity, is there a direct replacement alloy manifold that works with the stock Carter?
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-10-08 3:45 AM (#571311 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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Just about any 4-bbl 'square bore' intake will work.
Your Carter carb has smaller ports than the newer Carter/Edelbrock carbs.

It's only when you want to install a new carb on an older intake, when you have use a spacer or just slightly enlarge the bores.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-08 5:17 AM (#571315 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley


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Posts: 101
100
Location: Sydney
Im thinking, if I have to go as far as removing the CI manifold and valley cover, Ill replace it with something nice.

Sorry, a bit off track, but what about the choke setup on a different manifold?
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-08 6:06 PM (#571349 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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If you want to run a factory style choke, the only aftermarket intakes that I know of are the Edelbrock Performer, Holley Strip Dominator, and the Edelbrock six pack intakes. The first 2 use a choke from the mid 70's, and the six pack uses one from the late '60's. If you wish to use a different intake, you will need to use an electric choke.
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-08 6:34 PM (#571350 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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The MP M1 dual plane manifolds have a oe choke well too. Good manifolds! But you wil have to fabricate a new choke rod. Not difficult but time consuming. I'm a big fan of divorced OE chokes and don't like e-chokes but this would be an easy switch.

Just checked, looks like only the low deck M1 version has the choke well, but I found this from Indy:

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-08 6:44 PM




(indymfd.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments indymfd.jpg (80KB - 2 downloads)
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ABloch
Posted 2018-10-09 1:59 AM (#571371 - in reply to #571239)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Oil in Valley



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I went with the Offenhauser. https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/offenhauser-intak...
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