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Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?
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   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Steering and SuspensionMessage format
 
56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-07 9:13 PM (#571300)
Subject: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Expert

Posts: 4011
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
I was putting together an email to Roger at AAJ brakes to show him that my 56 D500 should have the same from support and knuckle/spindle as a C71 Windsor or an S23 Firedome when I noticed that there were two different numbers for the king pins:

1653 445 without power steering (the set I bought 2 years ago and not yet installed)

1752 456 with power steering (I have power steering but Dodge power steering, not Chrysler or Desoto)

Is there any difference in the support and knuckle or ???

To potentially answer my own question AutoZone shows both kinds for a 56 Windsor (except they are out of stock on both)

With PS:



Manual Steering:



But I still don't understand the difference (fewer/more parts, but why?)



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-07 10:30 PM




(55_56FrontSuspensionComponentsDiagram_Annotated.jpg)



(56DodgeD500SteeringKnuckleSpindleAndKingPinInfo_Annotated.jpg)



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Attachments 55_56FrontSuspensionComponentsDiagram_Annotated.jpg (151KB - 37 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeD500SteeringKnuckleSpindleAndKingPinInfo_Annotated.jpg (226KB - 28 downloads)
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DepsilonD
Posted 2018-10-08 1:38 PM (#571328 - in reply to #571300)
Subject: Re: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Elite Veteran

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Location: Buena Park, CA
In the pictures you posted, one set (power steering) has two sets of brass bushings and the other set has roller bearings (manual). I know on the non-D500 Dodges and Plymouths, the 6's had the double brass and the 8's had the roller bearings. I assumed it was due to the weight differences on the cars so as to make steering easier. Maybe the manual steering has the roller to do the same, and Chrysler assumed that the roller bearing wasn't necessary with power steering. You will need to ream the bushings once you install them. Here is an old writeup I did when I replaced the king pins in my Dodge a few years back.

http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=53746&post...

Dave
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-08 3:03 PM (#571333 - in reply to #571328)
Subject: Re: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Expert

Posts: 4011
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Thanks Dave. I think what you said makes sense. I also think that I could use the kit that I have with the roller bearings without any issue.

I went through your King Pin DIY. Great post.

Gives me confidence that I know what my winter project is going to be: King Pins and AAJ Disc brakes. Might as well do both at the same time.

(I'm giving up on my D500 front drum brakes - too touchy and too subject to wet weather moisture affecting the brake shoe/drum clearance).

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DepsilonD
Posted 2018-10-08 3:10 PM (#571335 - in reply to #571300)
Subject: Re: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 786
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Location: Buena Park, CA
The only hard part on the kingpins is getting the old bushings out and the new one's in. I tried, but ended up calling in backup (and they even ended up crushing one of the new bushings upon install and had to make me a new one). My machine shop guys have my original long reamer but I also picked up a second proper .797 kingpin reamer/driver from ebay recently so if you run into any snags I can ship it up to you for use and return.

Dave
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-08 3:36 PM (#571337 - in reply to #571300)
Subject: Re: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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For to demount the old bushings and mount the new ones, it's necessary to make pressing tools with the proper depth.

The reamer must be an adjustable pilot reamer because otherwise one bushing might be reamed up too much.


Here are some photos of the work I did on Dieters 56 New Yorker.


The crowfoot is homemade specially for the camber adjustment



(IMG_9882-rez.jpg)



(IMG_9903-rez.jpg)



(IMG_9906-rez.jpg)



(IMG_9910-rez.jpg)



(IMG_9975-rez.jpg)



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Attachments IMG_9906-rez.jpg (137KB - 28 downloads)
Attachments IMG_9910-rez.jpg (154KB - 28 downloads)
Attachments IMG_9975-rez.jpg (269KB - 29 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-30 2:14 PM (#572623 - in reply to #571337)
Subject: Re: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Expert

Posts: 4011
20002000
Location: Lower Mainland BC

Thanks for all the comments, links and photos guys.

To hedge my bets/cover all possibilities, I have just purchased a new TRW Brand K 468 king pin set for a 1956 Chrysler Desoto (with power steering), i.e. a set with four bronze bushings. If that is indeed what I need for my 56 Dodge Power Steering, big brake, D500, I will have the 1653 445 set (with two bronze bushings and two roller bearing bushings - non-power steering 56 Chrysler/Desoto) for sale at some point.

What I bought today:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-30 2:16 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-11-06 6:05 PM (#573070 - in reply to #572623)
Subject: Re: Why would king pins for a 56 Windsor be different w/PS and w/o PS?



Expert

Posts: 4011
20002000
Location: Lower Mainland BC
56D500boy - 2018-10-30 2:14 PM
To hedge my bets/cover all possibilities, I have just purchased a new TRW Brand K 468 king pin set for a 1956 Chrysler Desoto (with power steering), i.e. a set with four bronze bushings. If that is indeed what I need for my 56 Dodge Power Steering, big brake, D500, I will have the 1653 445 set (with two bronze bushings and two roller bearing bushings - non-power steering 56 Chrysler/Desoto) for sale at some point.


Just picked the TRW K 468 king pin set up today. Comparing it to the 1653 445 set, the king pins seem to be the same length and diameter (well that's a good thing). The K 468 comes with four reamable bushings. The 1653 445 has two needle bearing "bushings" and two reamable bushings. The needle bearing bushings are the same length as the K 468s bushings; the 1653 445 reamable bushing is about 1/8" longer than the K468 bushings. I am going to check with my NOS parts guy to see what he has for reamable bushings of that size.

Here are the instructions that came with the 1653 445 set (seems to cover both the power steering set and the non-power steering set):





(ChrcoKingPinInstructions_1_small.jpg)



(ChrycoKingPinInstructions_2_small.jpg)



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Attachments ChrcoKingPinInstructions_1_small.jpg (190KB - 21 downloads)
Attachments ChrycoKingPinInstructions_2_small.jpg (191KB - 20 downloads)
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