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Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-05 5:31 AM (#572952)
Subject: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Location: Sydney

Hi all
Thought Id start a new thread for this.
I really need some advice here

Started as a bad oil leak into the valley pan so I had to fix it.
Some suggested I try teflon tape on the manifold bolt threads and see if that fixed it.

Thought it was worth a try but found one thread starting to strip before getting to correct torque of 50 ft/pnd

So, now that Im over the horror of what I found under the manifold, I needing some advice as what I thought would be an easy job with a helicoil has turned into something else!

Shock horror, what a mess and no way to know where the oil was coming from 

 

 

Now, the real problem is that all the thread go into a void.

See the screwdriver is about 4 " long.

Where does the void go and what am I going to do about  drilling and tapping for a helicoil???



Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-11-05 5:44 AM
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mstrug
Posted 2018-11-05 6:44 AM (#572953 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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Stop just sort of tapping the heli-coil hole all the way through. Bolt will still go though the hole, but the heli-coil can't thread out the other end.
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60 Imp
Posted 2018-11-05 7:34 AM (#572954 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: RE: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Location: North Australia
This is the can of worms you were talking about!

The tapped hole goes into the oil return from the head to the sump. Pull the rocker cover off and you will see the screw driver. You might be in luck (the good stuff!), you might be able to block off below your tapped hole with a rag so you can catch the swarf from the heli coil job.

Make sure you inspect all the manifold threaded holes, just in case more than 1 is damaged. Good luck, and keep us in the loop.

In my opinion the 413 is a nice engine, and your car looks real net. I rebuilt my 413 in my Imperial, I had some challenges but it turned out great.

Steve.
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finsruskw
Posted 2018-11-05 8:03 AM (#572957 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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Someone probably used a bolt that was too short at one time resulting in stripped threads??
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wizard
Posted 2018-11-05 9:09 AM (#572963 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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If possible to access the hole from the inside, cut a piece of ordinary ordinary hand soap and have an assistant holding the soap pressed against the hole - eventual cutted steel will go into the soap - use a vacuum cleaner on the drlll side, combined with a good magnet
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58coupe
Posted 2018-11-05 10:34 AM (#572970 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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I have installed helicoils a number of times in engines and the best way I found to keep metal chips out of the engine is to coat the drill bit with grease, then drill the hole out.
Do the same with the tap. As mentioned, try to leave a shoulder in the bottom of the hole for a stop for the helicoil. It would be a good idea to pull the valve cover and
place a magnet on the back side of the hole just in case. when you bolt it back together, use a good sealer on the bolt such as permatex.
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1960fury
Posted 2018-11-05 2:06 PM (#572990 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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Since you can access the backside of the hole you could still make it a hillbilly repair, if you don't care about looks. Screw in a stud with a slot on the upper end and put a nut with locktite on the backside. If you use a stud only on one side, you can still install the manifold. Not pretty, but it should work.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-11-05 3:03 PM (#572996 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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That's a good idea Sid. That may be ugly, but has a good chance of working. JB weld epoxy on the nut & stud might be even better than the locktite. You can always remove it later with some heat. If your bolt is really short, you should inventory all your hardware to see if you could have other potential problems. I have tried the grease on the drill bit method and it doesn't work that well. I still ended up with quite a few metal shavings in my oil pan. I think the soap is a great idea if you can get it in there. Otherwise a super strong magnet is going to attract those shavings better than the grease will. But you REALLY don't want any of those shavings in your motor! That's why I like Sid's suggestion better. No chance of getting a stray shaving running around in your oil.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-05 3:19 PM (#572999 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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I was also surprised to find that there seems to have been no sealant of any sort!

I will pull the cover off to night and see whether I can access the back of the hole.
If so, then no drama.

Was trying to avoid taking the valve covers off, another $50 gasket
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-05 3:23 PM (#573001 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Like they say......

The more you poke an old turd, the worse it smells

Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-11-05 3:25 PM
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60 dart
Posted 2018-11-05 4:37 PM (#573007 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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that bolt should go into a visible open void inside the open head . so a nut on the inside would be your fastest option . easy ,,,,,, might be , but it's a little tight in that void . i'm
sure you'll get er done though . oh , and lock tight the nut threads -------------------------------------------------later
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58coupe
Posted 2018-11-05 8:14 PM (#573016 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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The trick I mentioned works well if you turn the drill bit slowly so as not to sling the chips off. Of course the tap is turned slowly. The 426 hemi has a couple of studs with nuts holding the heads on, you have to pull the intake to see them.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-05 8:39 PM (#573019 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Also, putting negative rake on the drill bit so it doesnt bite helps a lot.
Same as for enlarging holes in soft materials with a drill bit.
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1960fury
Posted 2018-11-05 8:53 PM (#573021 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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Tapping/chips in that location is no problem, as you can put a rag under it from the valley side, no need to change/flush the oil or to pull the valve cover.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-05 9:07 PM (#573024 - in reply to #573021)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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1960fury - 2018-11-06 11:53 AM

Tapping/chips in that location is no problem, as you can put a rag under it from the valley side, no need to change/flush the oil or to pull the valve cover.


Excellent to know, will suss that out tonight
Cheers
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-05 9:22 PM (#573028 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Location: Sydney

Just saw this in the Edelbrock documentation, seems a bit light on the manifold torque figure??

I though it was 50, cast iron and 40 for alumunium?

 



Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-11-05 9:24 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-06 4:28 AM (#573038 - in reply to #573021)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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1960fury - 2018-11-06 11:53 AM

Tapping/chips in that location is no problem, as you can put a rag under it from the valley side, no need to change/flush the oil or to pull the valve cover.


You were dead right

Access from the valley no problem.
Only issue was I found another hole with half the thread missing so I helicoiled the 2 around the heat riser on the left bank.
All good now, thanks all for help

Two holes helicoiled 

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wizard
Posted 2018-11-06 7:01 AM (#573041 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please



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Great Marc, now you can soon enjoy your car again!
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-11-06 2:52 PM (#573061 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Location: Sydney

For reference

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Stroller
Posted 2018-11-11 11:44 AM (#573317 - in reply to #572952)
Subject: Re: Golden Lion 413 Stripped thread in head...Advice please


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Man what a bummer. This is why anytime I am either building an engine or have something apart I run a bottoming tap into all threaded holes. Seen a few time when a 5/16th is threaded into where a 3/8th will go and the whoever just moves on. What I have found to minimize the shards going into is simply every 1/4 turn back out and vacum what ever comes untill all the way in/through. I put heli coils in all the threaded holes in my mopar small block timing covers. Magnetizing the taps can help a bit too. I've seen wax melted on taps to help contain the slag.
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