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Missing VIN and paperwork
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macedon
Posted 2018-11-21 12:49 PM (#573913)
Subject: Missing VIN and paperwork



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I went and looked at a car today. No paperwork and part of the VIN plate on the driver's post is missing. Is there anyway to find out what the VIN is. The the cowl data plate is there.

Am I just inviting a lot of unnecessary asspain if I buy this car?
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ronbo97
Posted 2018-11-21 1:15 PM (#573914 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork


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Some states will allow you to register a car with just a Bill of Sale. But without the VIN plate, it's a parts car.

Ron

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horace
Posted 2018-11-21 1:39 PM (#573915 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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the vin is located other places on some autos
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Old Ray
Posted 2018-11-21 3:26 PM (#573922 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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macedon - 2018-11-21 10:49 AM Am I just inviting a lot of unnecessary asspain if I buy this car?


YES, I see this kind of thing often, if the seller can not be bothered to get it legally registered, don't walk, run away..... fast. Another one will come along.
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57burb
Posted 2018-11-21 6:25 PM (#573927 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Does the cowl date plate say 'SERIAL'?

A few plants used trim tags that stamped the VIN, but not many. Might be able to use that.

If there is no title and no VIN plate to base a legal vehicle registration on, then I would not expect you to be able to register it.

Edited by 57burb 2018-11-21 6:28 PM
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macedon
Posted 2018-11-21 7:17 PM (#573932 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Location: San Antonio, TX
Yeah... it's probably a long shot. Is there a decent cowl plate decoder online for 57 Dodge? I saw several threads here on FL, but none that really show the breakdown. It's a 2dr Suburban. I think it's a 9 passenger but I couldn't really get in the back to see.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-11-21 7:54 PM (#573933 - in reply to #573932)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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I'm pretty sure that a 2 dr wagon would only ever be a 6 passenger. Need that Rear door (of a 4 dr) to access the final row. A good tell would be where is the spare. A 9 passenger will have the spare in the last bit of the right rear fender.





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-11-21 8:40 PM
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-11-21 7:58 PM (#573934 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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The serial number tag should be attached to the driver's door hinge post. The body tag will not have the SN. Some 1959 models did but that was a one year deal.

If you have a 2 door Suburban wagon it will be a 6 passenger. Only 4 door wagons (Sierra) came as 9 passenger.

Some cars had the S/N stamped on the chassis frame around the front hanger of the rear leaf spring. But the stampings are usually on the faint side as the steel for the frame is hard. If you do find what you think is the serial number, for a D70 Suburban and Sierra, all built in Detroit, the serial numbers start at 38,001,001 and end at 38,022,513.
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macedon
Posted 2018-11-21 8:43 PM (#573936 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Ok, it's a 6 passenger then. I don't have much knowledge on these. Which side leaf spring?? The VIN tag on the driver's post is partially missing.

It does appear to be factory A/C car. Here's the cowl tag



(57dodge.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 57dodge.JPG (29KB - 7 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-11-21 9:07 PM (#573941 - in reply to #573936)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Location: Lower Mainland BC

If FCA Historical had a searchable data base for 1957 cars then I would guess that the numbers under SCHEDULE including the obscured four digit date would be enough to narrow the car down so those made on that date with the 05019 number. Then using the body type, paint and trim numbers, the remaining choices of VIN would likely be relatively small. If the part of the VIN that is still there is the last few numbers, you could be able to pin point the exact VIN from that list.

Unfortunately I don't think they have a searchable data base. But you can always ask if they do.

This one is supposed to be from a 57 Dodge sedan (just to show all the numbers you need to find). Yours would start with 38... as suggested by Chrycoman.





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-11-21 9:10 PM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-21 10:53 PM (#573947 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork


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I don't think your able to go there an search all day.

You could call them but I have heard others had thought about that also.

They should have the info, but i think its on microfish film and you have to hunt through that.

Tell them lets enter it in and we can scan and give them the info back. We could make a vin search on serial number database online.

Many forward look cars would crash in value though


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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-11-22 12:26 AM (#573953 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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The IBM data cards were literally photographed and placed on rolls of 35mm film, minus the sprocket holes. Much like newspapers are done. To my knowledge, the rolls of film can be searched manually, but they have no way to type in a search string and have the machine do the searching. They appear to have upgraded to digital readers, so who knows. Maybe they can now.

The four covered digits on the body tag is the Scheduled Built Date, while the 05019 forms the Daily Sequence Number. The two combined form the Shipping Order Number, and it is unique to the plant the car was built. When searching the microfilm roll for D70 models, the xxxx 05019 sequence will come up once, if the IBM card has the SON laid out in that order. And that number is unique to the assembly plant, in this case the Hamtramck plant. There will only by one vehicle with scheduled build date xxxx and daily sequence number 05019. You probably could find that SON at more than one assembly plant, but again only one at an assembly plant.

With the SON, BDY, PNT and TRM you would have an air tight confirmation of the vehicle and thus the serial number provided on the IBM card would be confirmed.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-22 1:09 AM (#573957 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork


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yeah let me know how that goes
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macedon
Posted 2018-11-22 5:27 AM (#573960 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: RE: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Location: San Antonio, TX
Thanks for the informed suggestions and comments. The thing I am asking myself is why would someone scrape the VIN plate? The most obvious being so the car can't be registered. I'm sure there are many legitimate and not so legitimate reasons for that.

I guess if it was a super rare car or was my lifelong dream to own... I might consider it. It's neither of these things.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-22 10:23 AM (#573977 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork


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many times they don't scrape the vin plate. These vin plates fall off by themselves, they are stainless steel spot welded on to normal steel over paint also, they are notorious for corroding and falling off.
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macedon
Posted 2018-11-22 10:37 AM (#573978 - in reply to #573977)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Location: San Antonio, TX
Hadn't thought of that. Car has seen more than it's fair share of weather. I might go back and take another look. See if anything is stamped on the frame or perhaps some paperwork is hiding somewhere.

The only reason I'm even remotely interested is because I have a car (not a Forwardlook) to trade that the Dodge owner likes. At least that way the herd doesn't grow.



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-11-22 11:03 AM (#573981 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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The risk is high that you will never be able to figure it out. And even if you do finally figure out the number, you will need to get a new VIN plate made up, which requires some sort of proof that you own the right car. I doubt they will go off a data plate for proof. And to top it off, you may find out much later that it was stolen at some point, and all your efforts can come to naught. In the end, no VIN & no title = parts car. Sad but true.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-11-22 11:05 AM
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big m
Posted 2018-11-22 11:11 AM (#573983 - in reply to #573913)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Out here, if you have a vehicle with a missing or tampered with VIN tag, you have to drop it off with the CHP.

They will send a vehicle specialist up to inspect it for any secondary VIN numbers, or assign it a new ID number, as long as there is nothing that would lead them to believe the car was stolen.

I've had to do this on a number of cars over the years.

---John
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Old Ray
Posted 2018-11-22 12:09 PM (#573986 - in reply to #573981)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork



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Location: Invermere B.C. Canada - Rocky Mountains

Powerflite - 2018-11-22 9:03 AM The risk is high.  In the end, no VIN & no title = parts car. Sad but true.

Just in case you might think that us old guys don't have a clue what they are talking about, read on. Many years ago I found this 2 door cool wagon, so cool that because of the PLODGE thing it has Dodge front and rear emblems with Savoy side name plates. Go figure, the factory couldn't be bothered to remove them!

Before I started on my registered '56 I looked at doing this wagon but the vin plate had been removed so I searched for a parts car (no engine) with better grille and a vin plate (no comment), paid the guy and the hauling, never showed, after many months and many heated threats it finally came, yep, no vin plate. So to get anything going on these two I have to find another registered car. British Columbia has Government car insurance with very strict rules.  See what we mean? A registered car is worth one thousand dollars of unnecessary stress, time, and bureaucratic anguish!  

 

 

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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-11-22 7:33 PM (#573997 - in reply to #573983)
Subject: Re: Missing VIN and paperwork


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big m - 2018-11-22 11:11 AM Out here, if you have a vehicle with a missing or tampered with VIN tag, you have to drop it off with the CHP. They will send a vehicle specialist up to inspect it for any secondary VIN numbers, or assign it a new ID number, as long as there is nothing that would lead them to believe the car was stolen. I've had to do this on a number of cars over the years. ---John

 

In ohio your car is scrap... they assume its salvage.  You have to hire a lawyer and wait for years to be turned down to get a title

 

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