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727 Alum case trans parts mix and match
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grunau
Posted 2018-12-03 9:58 AM (#574552)
Subject: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match


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Location: North of the 49th
Hi Guys!
I have a bit of a dilemma ....I have a 1958 Dodge Custom Suburban equipped with a Cast Iron TorqueFlite and a 313 2bbl V-8. The 313 smokes like an old steam engine so (the engine was tired when it was parked for fifteen years , as J-18y plugs were found in two cylinders instead of J-14Y) my intent was to re-ring the sucker as I had rebuilt the Cast Iron Torqueflite to get the car to move (it only had reverse).
So now I have been offered a low mileage (approx 45,000) 318 out of a '65 PLymouth Belvedere (which is having a big block conversion done) the price is $200 which in my books is pretty close to free. I've driven the car and the engine is quite and smooth and obviously smoke free. I'm not a rivet counter so installing a '65 engine in a '58 does not bother me in the least , as it can be disquised to look like a '58! BUt as most of you know this engine is not a bolt in due to the crankshaft flange and Cast Iron Torqueflite. Along with this engine I can have the "A" series 727 Aluminum case but to install it I will loose the trans-mounted parking brake and I'll have to make provision for the park feature and modify the driveshaft as the '65 trans has a splined sliding yoke. I do have a 1962 Chrysler "B" series 727 Torqueflite which apparently is the only 727 Alumnum case trans with the output shaft mounted parking brake so maybe you guys know what I thinking......
Hence my question is...... have any of you played around with these early 727's to know if I can use the extension housing/output shaft etc. from the '62 Torqueflite on the '65 727 thereby creating an "A" engine compatible Transmission which will retain the exact features of the Cast Iron Torqueflite. Allowing me to drop in this Low mileage '65 318 in my '58 and retain all the stock (58) functionality. Feasable idea?????

Edited by grunau 2018-12-03 9:59 AM
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58coupe
Posted 2018-12-03 11:07 AM (#574557 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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The first problem you encounter is the bolt pattern eng. to trans. is not compatible so you would have to use the 65 main case. i have not personally done this but most if not all of the internal parts should all interchange.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-03 1:03 PM (#574565 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: RE: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: NorCal
From '62-'65 all of the output shafts and extension housings will fit either the BB or SB main case. The '65 output shaft and tail are in high demand for those who want a slip yoke on a cable-shift 727.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-12-03 2:19 PM (#574572 - in reply to #574565)
Subject: RE: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match


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57chizler - 2018-12-03 1:03 PM

From '62-'65 all of the output shafts and extension housings will fit either the BB or SB main case. The '65 output shaft and tail are in high demand for those who want a slip yoke on a cable-shift 727.


Hey John- big block 1965 trans- the input shaft is different and does not use a 70s style torque converter? So I was told.... lol What year did the input shaft change to the newer more common converter spline?
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-04 1:22 PM (#574623 - in reply to #574572)
Subject: RE: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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The 727 input shaft changed from 19-spline to 24-spline in '67.
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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2018-12-04 2:29 PM (#574629 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Absolutely, Yes to the last part of the question following 'Hence.' You will need the shift cable with the wheel adjuster. I have done this for the same reason.

Edited by RICKYMOPAR 2018-12-04 2:34 PM
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-12-04 4:43 PM (#574644 - in reply to #574623)
Subject: RE: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match


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57chizler - 2018-12-04 1:22 PM

The 727 input shaft changed from 19-spline to 24-spline in '67.


Thanks. AGAIN!
I'm used to the late 60's and 70's stuff, going to have to learn this pushbutton stuff in a hurry!!!

Thanks John!
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grunau
Posted 2018-12-05 8:33 AM (#574687 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match


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Location: North of the 49th
HI
Thanks for all the replies! , I'll have to round up the proper shift cable as all the '65 transmission has are the

ones that go to the base of the '65 steering column, the '62 trans only has a stub of the original cable sticking out of it

as the person(s) that removed it just torched the cable!

I'll need to obtain new emergency brake shoes for the '62 trans as someone removed them in the past for some

reason unless the shoes from the Cast iron trans fit?

The rear cross member will require some mods as well as the '62 trans does not have a solid Trans mount like the '58 ,

it has a coil spring suspended mount that will have to be fitted to the '58 cross member....... I'll get the trans

assembled first........


Edited by grunau 2018-12-05 8:40 AM
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-05 12:22 PM (#574702 - in reply to #574687)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: NorCal
When swapping the '62 and '65 parts I would use as many of the '65 parts as possible* with the exception of the valve body, the '65 valve body and its cable aren't compatible with the push button shifter.

* There are known issues with the '62 planetary gears, driving shell and rear pump plus the '65 pan will allow the use of the filter instead of the screen.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-12-07 11:37 AM (#574842 - in reply to #574702)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match


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Location: Locked in my Canadian garage....
57chizler - 2018-12-05 12:22 PM

When swapping the '62 and '65 parts I would use as many of the '65 parts as possible* with the exception of the valve body, the '65 valve body and its cable aren't compatible with the push button shifter.

* There are known issues with the '62 planetary gears, driving shell and rear pump plus the '65 pan will allow the use of the filter instead of the screen.


OUCH. Once again I never knew this. 1965 trans will not mate to a pushbutton shifter....? Argh
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-07 12:29 PM (#574850 - in reply to #574842)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: NorCal
The PB cable will install into the '65 VB but you have to use the '65 cable adjustment procedure instead of the PB procedure.
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-12-08 11:13 PM (#574909 - in reply to #574850)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match


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Posts: 140
10025
Location: Locked in my Canadian garage....
57chizler - 2018-12-07 12:29 PM

The PB cable will install into the '65 VB but you have to use the '65 cable adjustment procedure instead of the PB procedure.


So if I get a 1965 727 and a 1958 pushbutton shifter I install the cable from the pushbutton setup and use the procedure for adjusting 1965 727 cable trans? That's not bad if so.
I have a 1958 car and I bought the 1958 pushbutton shifter setup, I have access to a 1965 trans which I'm changing the input shaft for a late model torque converter. I just don't want a floor shifter in a 1958 car!!?!
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-09 12:54 PM (#574924 - in reply to #574909)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: NorCal
Yes. The PB adjustment procedure has you push in on the cable with the shifter in Reverse but the '65 (and '64 console) VB has an added position for Park so the procedure has you pull on the cable with the shifter in "1".

I use the later procedure even for the PB because pushing on the cable isn't as positive a feel as pulling on it.
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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2018-12-09 3:51 PM (#574934 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Use a late 59 to 64 cable. earlier cables do not work. I even sill use a trans cooling in line filter in all. My favorite planets are later model four pinion from High performance vehicles and front pump and input stator support, input and front drum from 1971 to 78. this uses newer torque convertor. parts still serviced today.

Edited by RICKYMOPAR 2018-12-09 3:53 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-10 1:04 PM (#574996 - in reply to #574934)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: NorCal
I know "everybody" recommends the 4-pinion planetaries but the weak point of the factory aluminum planetaries isn't the pinion count, it's the spline in the front planet carrier. This will fail long before the gears do.

Surprisingly, the 3-pinion planetary is about 15% stronger in this area so, unless you're making a lot of power, stick with the 3-pinion.
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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2018-12-10 6:22 PM (#575019 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: Colorful Colorado skier on the license plate
The only planet sets I have seen fail due to stress have been the forward sets and all were 3-pinion.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-11 11:26 AM (#575051 - in reply to #575019)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Location: NorCal
That's the beauty of anecdotal experience, I've never seen a pinion failure but have seen lots of spline failures. I have a coffee can full of pinions & shafts salvaged from stripped planetaries.



(Stripped Spline_02.jpg)



(Stripped Planet Gears 001.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Stripped Spline_02.jpg (24KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments Stripped Planet Gears 001.jpg (131KB - 0 downloads)
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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2018-12-11 6:56 PM (#575070 - in reply to #574552)
Subject: Re: 727 Alum case trans parts mix and match



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Posts: 199
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Location: Colorful Colorado skier on the license plate
I just installed 4 pinion planet sets in a C-6 this after noon. also designed the same engineer. I have seen many stripped and cracked planet sets. I just agree to disagree.
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