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SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2019-01-03 3:45 PM (#576209 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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Looks 'un'surprisingly similar to the adapter-plates I made some years ago, first a set for my '64 NY, and later used this set as mockup for a pair for my '60 and '62 NY'ers.









Edited by BigBlockMopar 2019-01-03 3:46 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-01-03 10:34 PM (#576229 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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What calipers did you use with your mounts?
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2019-01-04 2:32 PM (#576265 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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1973 Chrysler C-body calipers with 2.75" dia. piston
The rotors are also '73 Chrysler C-body units.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-01-14 5:32 PM (#576774 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Things are coming along slowly.
Still waiting to get the caliper plates sorted but in the meantime have been making progress.

Trial fit up looks like the extension housing should work fine

 

Plenty of room for everything and access

 

Had to make some mods to the housing as for some reason the firewall studs are shorter inboard than outside.

I wasnt expecting that as I assumed they were bolts.



Edited by 1coolbanana 2019-01-14 5:53 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-01-14 5:40 PM (#576775 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Made the new pushrod assembly and finished sizing and lengths required for the new m/c

Made a start on brake lines

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hemidenis
Posted 2019-01-14 6:10 PM (#576778 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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it is looking really good..
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-09 8:57 PM (#578019 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Ive seen some chat about unsprung weight so out of curiosity (and boredom) I weighed the old wheel assemblies and the new SSBC replacement parts to compare.

The SSBC, even with its iron 4 pot calipers, comes in at about 10 lbs LIGHTER than original equipment.

I measured the originals in a hobby box and the SSBC in a larger crate with all the packaging materials and they came out 7 lbs lighter, so in the same box and all the packaging removed Im guessing at around 10 lbs.

Although they arent Wilwoods, the SSBC still provide huge unsprung weight loss over standard.

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hemidenis
Posted 2019-02-09 9:33 PM (#578020 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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looking forward to this project.

Weight maybe lower but it will no make much difference in the overall weight of the car. Now the 500 pound difference with the Plymouth volare brakes is another story.
I'm with the SSBC set up so far, so I hope it works.

Edited by hemidenis 2019-02-09 9:35 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-09 9:51 PM (#578021 - in reply to #578020)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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hemidenis - 2019-02-10 12:33 PM

looking forward to this project.

Weight maybe lower but it will no make much difference in the overall weight of the car. Now the 500 pound difference with the Plymouth volare brakes is another story.
I'm with the SSBC set up so far, so I hope it works.


Agreed, there was just discussions in other threads that the SSBC may be even heavier and having more unspung weight than original and that Wilwood was the way to go with aluminium calipers.
I just wanted to check for my own curiosity if that was the case or not and clearly it is not.
Still a great unsprung weight saving over stock.

Hopefully wont be much longer before its back together. :-)
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1960fury
Posted 2019-02-10 10:33 AM (#578031 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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So what is the exact weight of the SSBC Disk/hub assembly, brackets, calipers and all the axle (unsprung) hardware that is needed to install?

Edited by 1960fury 2019-02-10 10:36 AM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-12 1:57 AM (#579222 - in reply to #578031)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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1960fury - 2019-02-11 1:33 AM

So what is the exact weight of the SSBC Disk/hub assembly, brackets, calipers and all the axle (unsprung) hardware that is needed to install?


Sorry for the late reply, didnt see this post.
I dont know the exact weight as all the parts were in the parts bins, can only tell you the difference between the two lots.
The bins probably weighed about 1 kg for the original parts and maybe 2kg for all the new parts.
Everything that came off in one bin and everything thats going on in the other.
You can see the weight on the scales.

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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-12 2:03 AM (#579223 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Its been very slow progress.
I mocked up the plates Id drawn up on a 3D printer to see how everything is going to fit up and it should all work out ok.
Hopefully not too much longer before I find out if this is going to work out!

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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-13 12:56 AM (#579272 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Gents.....Just wondering if there is any reason to mount the caliper forward instead of rearward on the spindle?
Does not appear to be any clearance issues but would make the brake line routing much easier if rearward.


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wizard
Posted 2019-03-13 1:27 AM (#579273 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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It doesn't matter which position the caliper is mounted, forward position looks "wrong" but that's all.

Check the clearance with the front end down on the floor.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-13 4:58 AM (#579276 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Yes, Id prefer them at the back.
Seems to be plenty of clearance.
Ill drop it and make sure but even jacking up into nominal position seems to have plenty of clearance from lock to lock.

I wonder why SSBC say it must go to the front, but their instructions are generic and not specific to this.

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wizard
Posted 2019-03-13 6:52 AM (#579278 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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As long as the bleeders are upwards as in your photo, it will be just fine
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1960fury
Posted 2019-03-15 4:45 PM (#579394 - in reply to #579272)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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1coolbanana - 2019-03-13 12:56 AM

Gents.....Just wondering if there is any reason to mount the caliper forward instead of rearward on the spindle?
Does not appear to be any clearance issues but would make the brake line routing much easier if rearward.



Hmm, why do you say that? The stock location for the brake line and bracket is forward. So it is much easier to mount the caliper forward. I didn't have to change the bracket or hardline when I switched from drums to discs.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-15 8:51 PM (#579400 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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The port on the caliper when mounted at the front, points backwards and behind the hard line so requires an S bend to connect to the hardline that points forward.
If mounted rearward, it requires just a U bend to connect to the hard line.


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1960fury
Posted 2019-03-16 10:35 AM (#579425 - in reply to #579400)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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1coolbanana - 2019-03-15 8:51 PM

The port on the caliper when mounted at the front, points backwards and behind the hard line so requires an S bend to connect to the hardline that points forward.
If mounted rearward, it requires just a U bend to connect to the hard line.




Okay, so a specific problem of that caliper.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-17 5:07 PM (#579472 - in reply to #579425)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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1960fury - 2019-03-17 1:35 AM

1coolbanana - 2019-03-15 8:51 PM

The port on the caliper when mounted at the front, points backwards and behind the hard line so requires an S bend to connect to the hardline that points forward.
If mounted rearward, it requires just a U bend to connect to the hard line.




Okay, so a specific problem of that caliper.



Wouldnt call it a problem, more a "feature"
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1960fury
Posted 2019-03-17 6:19 PM (#579474 - in reply to #579472)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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1coolbanana - 2019-03-17 5:07 PM

1960fury - 2019-03-17 1:35 AM

1coolbanana - 2019-03-15 8:51 PM

The port on the caliper when mounted at the front, points backwards and behind the hard line so requires an S bend to connect to the hardline that points forward.
If mounted rearward, it requires just a U bend to connect to the hard line.




Okay, so a specific problem of that caliper.



Wouldnt call it a problem, more a "feature" ;)


If it forces you to change the hardline and bracket, I'd call it a problem. If you do it right for the 2 front brake lines, cutting, bending, flaring, drilling/tapping into the frame, positioning the bracket, etc, couple of hours work and some $ too.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-03-17 6:25 PM (#579475 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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What makes you think I have to change anything?
Its just a nicer and easier routing of the the flex line when the caliper is rear mounted.
Either way works with original locations just one is easier, more aesthetically and functionally pleasing than the other.

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1960fury
Posted 2019-03-17 7:57 PM (#579477 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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What makes me think so is obvious. The OE hard line connector/bracket is in front of the spindle and the caliper now is in rear of the spinde and finding a proper position so that the flex line clears everything and is as short as possible is critical anyway.
So you run the flex line from the front to the back of the UCA? Around the control arm/spindle? Aesthetically and functional pleasing? Okay, if you say so. Keep in mind the flex line is not supposed to get in touch with anything during suspension travel in any wheel position. I'm curious how it looks installed.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-03-17 8:15 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2019-03-17 8:19 PM (#579479 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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Okay , I just noticed that the hardline on long wheelbase cars is routed differently than on 118/122 wb cars. My bad.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-04 8:59 PM (#580396 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Hi gents
Does someone know the torque spec for the 7/16" UNF bolts/nuts that hold the backing plate onto the spindle?
Two long ones that go through the steering arm and two short ones.
TIA

Some progress, got the caliper plates from laser cutting yesterday, drilled, tapped and finshed off and painted.



Assembly starts now



Edited by 1coolbanana 2019-04-04 9:10 PM
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hemidenis
Posted 2019-04-04 11:11 PM (#580398 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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Looks awesome bud. I really looking forward to see if will lock up the front tires...
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-05 5:17 AM (#580403 - in reply to #580398)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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hemidenis - 2019-04-05 2:11 PM

Looks awesome bud. I really looking forward to see if will lock up the front tires...


Me too

Made some good progress tonight.
Few more things to tidy up in the morning, then bleed and see if I have decent brakes!

These EBC rotors are so much better than the Chinese SSBC but unfortunately, I discovered the hoses are also Chinese 

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1960fury
Posted 2019-04-05 7:22 AM (#580405 - in reply to #580396)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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1coolbanana - 2019-04-04 8:59 PM

Hi gents
Does someone know the torque spec for the 7/16" UNF bolts/nuts that hold the backing plate onto the spindle?



55 FP
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-06 7:23 AM (#580445 - in reply to #580405)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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1960fury - 2019-04-05 10:22 PM

1coolbanana - 2019-04-04 8:59 PM

Hi gents
Does someone know the torque spec for the 7/16" UNF bolts/nuts that hold the backing plate onto the spindle?



55 FP


Thanksyou
Was having a seniors moment but finally found it in the manual

Edited by 1coolbanana 2019-04-06 7:24 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2019-04-06 5:08 PM (#580451 - in reply to #580445)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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1coolbanana - 2019-04-06 7:23 AM

1960fury - 2019-04-05 10:22 PM

1coolbanana - 2019-04-04 8:59 PM

Hi gents
Does someone know the torque spec for the 7/16" UNF bolts/nuts that hold the backing plate onto the spindle?



55 FP


Thanksyou
Was having a seniors moment but finally found it in the manual :laugh:


So you didn't trust me
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-06 7:09 PM (#580455 - in reply to #580451)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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1960fury - 2019-04-07 8:08 AM

1coolbanana - 2019-04-06 7:23 AM

1960fury - 2019-04-05 10:22 PM

1coolbanana - 2019-04-04 8:59 PM

Hi gents
Does someone know the torque spec for the 7/16" UNF bolts/nuts that hold the backing plate onto the spindle?



55 FP


Thanksyou
Was having a seniors moment but finally found it in the manual :laugh:


So you didn't trust me :(


Of course I did, but I found the torque setting before your reply

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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-06 7:18 PM (#580458 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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So far so good, all back together.

Is there an adjustment for pedal height between the two sets of linkages under the dash?
Pedal height has always been a problem and has always seemed to low to start with.
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wizard
Posted 2019-04-07 2:27 AM (#580474 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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No, there,so only the pushrod.
The booster trigger can be adjusted but that only affect when the booster kicks in, not the pedal height.

Try to pump the brake a couple of times and see if you get higher pedal (indicates air or to less Mc volume )
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-07 2:57 AM (#580475 - in reply to #580474)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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wizard - 2019-04-07 5:27 PM

No, there,so only the pushrod.
The booster trigger can be adjusted but that only affect when the booster kicks in, not the pedal height.

Try to pump the brake a couple of times and see if you get higher pedal (indicates air or to less Mc volume )


Thanks. Thats what I thought looking at the diagrams that I could find.
Ive had the same problem since the day I brought it home and suspect maybe something to do with the rear drums but dont know what.
Pumping makes no difference, it all seems properly bled and is working well, just too much pedal travel.
Maybe the diameter of the master???


So shes back on the road finally :-
Went for a test drive today and all seems good but a little underwhelming, was expecting better but in saying that, its pretty good.
I think the crappy cheap Chinese brake pads that came with the SSBC kit are rubbish and way too hard which is not helping.

Will look for some other quality pads.

 



Edited by 1coolbanana 2019-04-07 3:04 AM
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wizard
Posted 2019-04-07 4:21 AM (#580479 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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Marc, did you adjust the rear brakes according the fsm? Front adjuster in the same direction as the Wheel in forward rotation, rear adjuster in the same direction as the Wheel in rearward rotation...

The disc brakes will give less brake force than the drums, but even brake force at all times, hence overall better brakes
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-07 5:19 AM (#580480 - in reply to #580479)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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wizard - 2019-04-07 7:21 PM

Marc, did you adjust the rear brakes according the fsm? Front adjuster in the same direction as the Wheel in forward rotation, rear adjuster in the same direction as the Wheel in rearward rotation...

The disc brakes will give less brake force than the drums, but even brake force at all times, hence overall better brakes


Yes, as per FSM.
I think part of my problem is the drums do not run true so part rotation they dont touch but some of the rotation they do.
This applies to both sides.
So to have them just backed off and not touching is too much.
I have them so they only just touch on a small part of the whole revolution.
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hemidenis
Posted 2019-04-07 11:13 PM (#580517 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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that is the feeling with disc brakes that everybody complaint, "like it is not grip between the rotors and pads". Is the same feeling I have with my regular car when I put an 800 pounds trailer in the back. With out the trailer you only need a single toe to stop the car very fast.

My 2017 Honda Accord has massive disc brakes in the front and the rear. One day I put 10 packs of 2 liter coke in the back, around 60 bottles that translated in KG it should be around 120kg or 264 pounds. It was quite a difference in braking when I got to the stop light, with me been used to always drive by myself..

So it will not lockup the front tires?
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-08 2:54 AM (#580525 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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I think the wooden pads supplied by SSBC are a big part of that.
They are stock 65-67 Mustang caliper copies so should be easy to source some quality EBC pads with some bite.

I havent really tried to lock anything up.
Im just running them in a bit first.

Would not lock front or rear drums before!
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-04-18 4:17 AM (#581069 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Ok, Update:
I replaced the rubbish SSBC pads with some Hawk HPS pads.
The difference is phenomenal, its a huge improvement and now much better.

So to recap the SSBC debacle.

The calipers are 4 piston 65 Mustang.
The pads are rubbish, using Hawk HPS
The rotors are made in China, replaced with EBC 65 Mustang with an additional 4mm bearing spacer.
The bearings were rubbish Chinese, replaced with quality bearings.
Seals were rubbish, replaced with quality seals
The brake lines are Chinese "Sunsong" am using until I get replacements made.
Master cylinder looks ok but!?!

Calipers mounts, made myself.
Master cylinder and pushrod extension Im particularly happy with as its not too intrusive and retains the original booster.

So, I would highly NOT recommend SSBC.
They also ripped me off $400 but thats another story in the hands of the banks trying to recover the money.

All the parts are easily available, regarding the calipers, pads, rotors and master.

If anyone wants the CAD of the extension housing to use with any MC to clear the bellows, just give me a shout.
Same goes for the CAD for the caliper mounts, happy to share.

Overall, now, Im happy with the improvement, it pulls up smooth and straight but its been an uphill battle and my ongoing issues are related to the rear drums now which is the next step.




Edited by 1coolbanana 2019-04-18 4:42 AM
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hemidenis
Posted 2019-05-13 11:26 PM (#582126 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker



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Good updated. Please let us know if you can make them lock up. if you can achieve that is because the brakes are good enough for the massive weight of the car.

I would definitely like to get the cad for the adapters and the MC.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-05-14 12:10 AM (#582132 - in reply to #582126)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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hemidenis - 2019-05-14 2:26 PM

Good updated. Please let us know if you can make them lock up. if you can achieve that is because the brakes are good enough for the massive weight of the car.

I would definitely like to get the cad for the adapters and the MC.


I certainly will.
Front is good.
Im struggling with the rear atm.
This is my main cause of issues.

Bent axles, drum runout causing excessive pedal travel.

Your welcome to the CAD files.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-06-14 7:15 AM (#583416 - in reply to #574593)
Subject: Re: SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker


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Ok, now that this piece of junk has arrived I can start to rebuild it so my braking issues will be fixed once and for all.
It has been butchered but at least it is straight!

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