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SSBC Disc Conversion on 60 New Yorker Jump to page : 1 2 3 4 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Hi all
My question regarding this is, does the supplied master cylinder in the picture above work with my bellows style booster bellow? The guy from SSBC could not confirm but thought it might not and could be an issue fitting under the bellows where the existing master cylinder lives. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Solutions for this if it does not? Thank you in advance
Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-12-04 4:37 AM | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | The SSBC kit we used had four bolt mounting pad on the master. If it bolts up you'll have to look at pushrod engagement, brake line plumbing, and if your master will actually fit under the bellows. As well as if you can fill the reservoir with fluid. Prices in Australia are crazy. Shipping prices alone are crazy!!!! | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Brake line plumbing Im ok with, pushrod, I can make or modify to work and its supposed to be the 4 bolt that should bolt up. Its the clearance, whether it fits under the booster and if not, what the alternative. Hoping someone has done this with this style booster. The other thing Im not sure about is the residual pressure valve required for the drums. Is this already built into the master or do I need a separate inline one for the rear? | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13045 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | It should be included in the kit Marc, it's the black gadget with the knob in the lower right of the photo you posted. To me, the included m/c looks to be lower than the oem, so I Think you're good…. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | wizard - 2018-12-05 7:33 AM It should be included in the kit Marc, it's the black gadget with the knob in the lower right of the photo you posted. To me, the included m/c looks to be lower than the oem, so I Think you're good…. I hope so, would be fantastic if its a direct bolt on :-) So the proportioning valve is also the residual valve? | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7395 Location: northern germany | 1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 4:37 PM So the proportioning valve is also the residual valve? No. You need a residual valve for the discs and, of course, the drums (different than a disc valve). I doubt these are inside the MC. Edited by 1960fury 2018-12-04 4:50 PM | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | 1960fury - 2018-12-05 7:47 AM 1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 4:37 PM So the proportioning valve is also the residual valve? No. So is it built into the master cylinder like the original or will I need to add one? | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7395 Location: northern germany | 1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 4:49 PM 1960fury - 2018-12-05 7:47 AM 1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 4:37 PM So the proportioning valve is also the residual valve? No. So is it built into the master cylinder like the original or will I need to add one? See edit^ | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | This kit is advertised to be a straight up complete bolt on kit for all 57-62 Chryslers (except the ones with the weird bellows like mine!). I would hope that these things are included somehow. The install instructions make no mention of any of this so what am I to assume? I would have thought that this was all inclusive and or built in if its required. Not sure what to assume. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | https://ssbrakes.com/files/2015%20Instructions/a154-4.pdf | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9654 Location: So. Cal | No, that master will not fit under your booster. If you want a dual port master that will fit, you need one of those flat-cap variety from the late-'60's. The master shown is for a 70's Dart and won't fit. But even the flat-cap master is a pain, so this is what I do instead. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=59993&... Edited by Powerflite 2018-12-04 7:05 PM (57NY Firewall Closer.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57NY Firewall Closer.jpg (188KB - 424 downloads) | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | 1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM Brake line plumbing Im ok with, pushrod, I can make or modify to work and its supposed to be the 4 bolt that should bolt up. Its the clearance, whether it fits under the booster and if not, what the alternative. Hoping someone has done this with this style booster. The other thing Im not sure about is the residual pressure valve required for the drums. Is this already built into the master or do I need a separate inline one for the rear? Wilwood sells a cheap residual valve that's compact if you need one. Street Rods use them all the time too. Try Ebay if you go that route. Your shipping rates are what scare me!!! | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | Powerflite - 2018-12-04 6:56 PM No, that master will not fit under your booster. If you want a dual port master that will fit, you need one of those flat-cap variety from the mid-'60's. The master shown is for a 70's Dart and won't fit. But even the flat-cap master is a pain, so this is what I do instead. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=59993&... Hey!!! You like that dual remote billet reservoir ?? I think I have the same one in my Coupe!!!! I was told if the reservoir itself is above the calipers or wheel cylinders that no residual valve is needed, even if the actual master is lower, below the floor etc...? | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | I like that brake setup Powerflite!!! Awesome way to take the pain out of filling the brake reservoir!!!! I once had a PB brake bellows, so I'm impressed!! | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Oh boy.....can-o-worms | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9654 Location: So. Cal | You can also pull that astrodome out and install new gauges. Will it work just as well, or maybe slightly better? Probably. But it will ruin the fun of owning a '60 Chrysler IMO. | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | I believe my buddy used exactly that setup on his 55 Custom Royal Lancer and it worked awesome. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Maybe so, but at least its a Mopar part. Im not keen on using metric imperial mix and match. I may design and make an extension housing instead to use the supplied master cylinder and bring it out from the firewall to clear the original booster. This might be the simplest way to fix this if it doesnt interfere with anything else. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-12-05 10:38 AM I believe my buddy used exactly that setup on his 55 Custom Royal Lancer and it worked awesome. Are you referring to the 65-74 B&E-body Brake Booster Master Cylinder? | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Is this what you mean by a flat cap master? | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9654 Location: So. Cal | Yes. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7395 Location: northern germany | https://www.ebay.com/itm/Residual-Valve-Disc-Drum-Brake-Set-Check-Va... B/201585809466?hash=item2eef73583a:g:jPUAAOSww1haoY4C:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | 1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 7:48 PM CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-12-05 10:38 AM I believe my buddy used exactly that setup on his 55 Custom Royal Lancer and it worked awesome. Are you referring to the 65-74 B&E-body Brake Booster Master Cylinder? I believe he used the bracket and Z bar from an A body and the booster and master from a B body. Brakes worked awesome. Disc conversion up front. | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | Rofl F that monstrosity... no way would that thing fit next to my engine. Im going the powerflite setup.
1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 7:32 PM Oh boy.....can-o-worms | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | mikes2nd - 2018-12-06 2:46 AM Rofl F that monstrosity... no way would that thing fit next to my engine. Im going the powerflite setup.
1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 7:32 PM Oh boy.....can-o-worms Not my preferred option but isnt that bad | ||
hemidenis |
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Expert Posts: 3887 Location: Northen Virginia | with the senseless money cost of rebuilding the oval PB unit, I think getting something more modern maybe the best solution. Edited by hemidenis 2018-12-06 12:31 PM | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | hemidenis - 2018-12-05 9:54 PM with the cost senseless cost to rebuild the oval PB unit, I think getting something more modern maybe the best solution. Any idea what this PB Booster is from? It's on a 55 Dodge Custom Royal (not mine) that had a Scare Bird front Disc conversion done. I know that changing the spark plugs is going to be a B-I-T-C-H. Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-05 10:40 PM (DiscBrakeConversionPBBoosterAndDualMCOn55Dodge.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DiscBrakeConversionPBBoosterAndDualMCOn55Dodge.jpg (192KB - 428 downloads) | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | 56D500boy - 2018-12-05 10:37 PM hemidenis - 2018-12-05 9:54 PM with the cost senseless cost to rebuild the oval PB unit, I think getting something more modern maybe the best solution. Any idea what this PB Booster is from? It's on a 55 Dodge Custom Royal (not mine) that had a Scare Bird front Disc conversion done. I know that changing the spark plugs is going to be a B-I-T-C-H. LOL I can tell you exactly. That's the car Paul built. It's not a Scarebird kit either I don't think. I'll ask him again when I see him exactly what he used, but the car stopped well. | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | Okee doke. Front disc brake conversion is an ECI conversion kit. Bracket and linkage from an A body MoPar. Booster is a 1967 B body booster. Master is a 1969 B body disc brake master. He added the bracket from the firewall to the back of the top of the booster to try to reduce firewall flex. Made it himself. | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-12-08 5:04 PM Okee doke. Front disc brake conversion is an ECI conversion kit. Thanks. I had NOT heard of ECI or their conversions. Looks like they only do 11" drum conversions for the 55-56 Dodge/Plymouths. Won't work for me but thanks for the info. http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions... | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | Paul has used Scarebird before but he didn't like the brackets on the kits he bought from them, so he tried ECI. | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-12-08 6:00 PM Paul has used Scarebird before but he didn't like the brackets on the kits he bought from them, so he tried ECI. Good to know. Neither Scarebird or ECI seems to have a bracket for the four bolt 55-56 Chrysler Windsor, etc. spindles which my 56 Dodge D500 has. No problem. *IF* I abandon my D500 12 x 2.5 drums, I can get 4 four bolt Chrysler brackets, etc. from Roger at AAJ in Portland OR. I just wanted to see if there were alternatives. My current center plane front brakes: Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-08 8:16 PM (DaveFs56DodgeD500LeftFrontBrakeSuspectedOfLeaking_Nope.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DaveFs56DodgeD500LeftFrontBrakeSuspectedOfLeaking_Nope.jpg (163KB - 411 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9654 Location: So. Cal | CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-12-08 3:00 PM Paul has used Scarebird before but he didn't like the brackets on the kits he bought from them, so he tried ECI. What didn't he like about the brackets? The Scarebird kit is great for '57-up because it gets you 12" rotors (used with 15" wheels). I run them on all my cars and they work great. | ||
CrAzYMoPaRGuY |
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Veteran Posts: 154 Location: Locked in my Canadian garage.... | Powerflite - 2018-12-08 9:22 PM CrAzYMoPaRGuY - 2018-12-08 3:00 PM Paul has used Scarebird before but he didn't like the brackets on the kits he bought from them, so he tried ECI. What didn't he like about the brackets? The Scarebird kit is great for '57-up because it gets you 12" rotors (used with 15" wheels). I run them on all my cars and they work great. The brackets he didn't like were on GM applications. I saw one of his Cadillacs, and the brackets were not very sturdy at all. This was a few years back, two Caddys. I have nooooo idea where he got the idea of ECI though. Never heard of them!!! | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Can anyone please confirm positively whether this would fit under the bonnet of the 60 New Yorker and no issues with valve covers or anything else? Just weighing up the options atm. http://www.mattsclassicbowties.com/contents/en-us/p5404.html Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-12-10 5:23 AM | ||
hemidenis |
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Expert Posts: 3887 Location: Northen Virginia | Of what i can see the ECI conversion kit has a single piston caliper, so the bite force maybe not enough. | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | hemidenis - 2018-12-10 1:17 PM Of what i can see the ECI conversion kit has a single piston caliper, so the bite force maybe not enough. They all use single piston calipers: http://rustyhope.com/site/mopar-discbrakes/ https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&produc... http://www.aajbrakes.com/rproductinfo.html http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions... Scare Bird on the left, AAJ on the right: Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-10 1:46 PM | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7395 Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2018-12-05 11:46 AM Rofl F that monstrosity... no way would that thing fit next to my engine. Im going the powerflite setup.
1coolbanana - 2018-12-04 7:32 PM Oh boy.....can-o-worms ROFLx2 From what I heard there is now an updated version that extends thru the engine bay and the MC bolts to the grille, so you can service it from the outside | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | 56D500boy - 2018-12-11 4:45 AM hemidenis - 2018-12-10 1:17 PM Of what i can see the ECI conversion kit has a single piston caliper, so the bite force maybe not enough. They all use single piston calipers: http://rustyhope.com/site/mopar-discbrakes/ https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&produc... http://www.aajbrakes.com/rproductinfo.html http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions... Scare Bird on the left, AAJ on the right: :) The SSBC Ive got is a four piston caliper . | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Dont know why you guys are so hard on this setup. Im very limited in what parts are available here so compromises have to be made. http://www.mattsclassicbowties.com/contents/en-us/p5404.html Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-12-10 2:49 PM | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13045 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | It's plausible that it will fit, the reinforcement plate on the firewall seems to be the same as the older cars. The big question is if the pedal ratio will suit the new unit without any modifications. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Going to try something different. This will clear the lid and provide easy access to the master. See if it works. Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-12-11 7:01 PM | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | This is the answer I got from SSBC regarding their kit install. "No you would not need to run a residual valve as long as the master cylinder is on the firewall above the rest of the brake system" | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Im going to run a residual valve for the rear anyway!
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1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7395 Location: northern germany | 1coolbanana - 2018-12-12 4:21 PM This is the answer I got from SSBC regarding their kit install. "No you would not need to run a residual valve as long as the master cylinder is on the firewall above the rest of the brake system" Not true. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | 1960fury - 2018-12-13 8:44 PM 1coolbanana - 2018-12-12 4:21 PM This is the answer I got from SSBC regarding their kit install. "No you would not need to run a residual valve as long as the master cylinder is on the firewall above the rest of the brake system" Not true. Thats why I got one :-) From what I can understand it cant do any harm to have one but it can, not to have one! | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9654 Location: So. Cal | I agree. That statement is specifically about using a residual valve with a disc brake system. If you have your master lower than your discs, then you should use a residual valve with discs. But regardless of where the master is with respect to the drum brakes, a residual valve should be used with them. Also, beware that the wilwood residual valves will leak if you don't tighten the fittings on them. They seem like they are tight out of the box, but they aren't tight enough. Just a heads up for you. | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | That response from SSBC was specifically to the question "do I need to use a residual valve on the rear circuit when using your front kit and keeping the drums on the rear" Anyway, I figured it cant hurt to have one and was readily available :-) | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7395 Location: northern germany | Yes, it is a known phenomena that fluid bleeds back into the MC even if the MC is located higher than the rest of the brake system. For what reasons ever, maybe vibration? I first didn't use residual valves in my car (disc/disc) but had a couple of very scary moments after prolonged driving without braking followed by sudden brake situations! | ||
1coolbanana |
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Veteran Posts: 267 Location: Sydney | Powerflite - 2018-12-14 5:41 AM Also, beware that the wilwood residual valves will leak if you don't tighten the fittings on them. They seem like they are tight out of the box, but they aren't tight enough. Just a heads up for you. It didnt come with fittings, they are a tapered thread (like an NPTT) and need an additional tapered thread adaptor fitting to seal properly. The place that sold it to me supplied me the correct fitting to go with it. Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-12-13 5:53 PM | ||
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