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466 Transmission Interchange
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69rrgrabber
Posted 2018-12-04 11:07 PM (#574679)
Subject: 466 Transmission Interchange


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Hello! Just curious if an A488 out of a 58 Dodge Swept side is the same as a 60 Imperial or 58 Desoto, Its just the iron case and internals. For $75 I can grab it to use for spare parts. About to start on mt 60 Imperial and thought it would be a good back up.

Thanks,

Carl
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-12-05 1:04 AM (#574680 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: RE: A488 Transmission Interchange



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69rrgrabber - 2018-12-04 11:07 PM
Hello! Just curious if an A488 out of a 58 Dodge Swept side is the same as a 60 Imperial or 58 Desoto, Its just the iron case and internals. For $75 I can grab it to use for spare parts. About to start on mt 60 Imperial and thought it would be a good back up. Thanks, Carl


"The ChryslerTorqueFlite transmission was Chrysler’s long term solution from its introduction in 1956 through the early 1990s, remaining in duty in modified form (for front wheel drive) through 2001 in the Caravan and Neon, and continuing even today with electronic controls for trucks. Long after the Vacamatic was discontinued.

Though the first TorqueFlite was the revolutionary model # A-488, called the best automatic transmission in the world, the most legendary Torqueflite model is the well known A-727, which it replaced it in 1962. Duties first assigned were for the most muscular engines, heavy duty applications, and trucks, the A-727 used an aluminum case (rather than the A-488’s cast iron case), in the early A-727 models, park was actuated by a lever (1962-64 models).

The first generation of iron TorqueFlites had a rear pump as well as a front pump, allowing the automatic-equipped cars to be push started! It probably wasn’t officially endorsed, but it worked in emergencies. For 1966, the rear pump was eliminated because the push-starting capability was rarely used.

Base model cars usually were to get the A-904 and, in later years, it became called the A998/999. The A-904 was a smaller, aluminum-cased version; and, it was very capable of handling the power of the slant six and 273 V8 (later, the 318). The difference between the 904, 998/999, and 727 was largely in d the amount of ‘beef’, and in the torque converters. Much of this confusion probably stems from Chrysler’s early general references to the 904 as “Torqueflite 6” and whichever Torqueflite was behind V8s at the time as “Torqueflite 8.” A V8 version of the 904 did not appear until 1964, when it came out behind the 273. And there was a slant-six version of the 727 for truck use.

The A-500 and A-518 truck transmissions were 727s and 904s with an overdrive added."


REFERENCE: http://www.gottransmissions.com/blog/chrysler-transmissions/1956-to...

Looks like the 56-58 A488 PN was 1823 593 and the corresponding case PN was either 1636 442 or 1736 236.


Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-05 8:01 AM




(A888PNs56-58.jpg)



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Attachments A888PNs56-58.jpg (167KB - 27 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2018-12-05 3:02 AM (#574681 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: A488 Transmission Interchange



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Actually, the TorqueFlite cast iron hog is a 466 not a 488
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-05 12:28 PM (#574703 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: RE: A488 Transmission Interchange



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The '58 and the '60 use a different shift cable attachment, therefore the main cases aren't interchangeable.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-12-05 2:13 PM (#574710 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: A488 Transmission Interchange



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I agree that the proper term seems to be A466, but where did the A488 name come from? It is all over the place.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-12-05 3:13 PM (#574713 - in reply to #574681)
Subject: Re: A488 Transmission Interchange



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wizard - 2018-12-05 3:02 AM

Actually, the TorqueFlite cast iron hog is a 466 not a 488


Hmmm....I wonder why All Par doesn't mention the 466, just the 488?

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/torqueflite-tom-hand.html

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/torqueflite.html

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wizard
Posted 2018-12-05 4:01 PM (#574717 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: A488 Transmission Interchange



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Probably just another of their errors Dave.

In my opinion it's always best to rely on Chryslers information




(Untitled_20181205_232108.JPG)



(Untitled_20181205_231944.JPG)



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Attachments Untitled_20181205_232108.JPG (544KB - 33 downloads)
Attachments Untitled_20181205_231944.JPG (174KB - 32 downloads)
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69rrgrabber
Posted 2018-12-06 12:33 AM (#574750 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: A488 Transmission Interchange


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Thank you all so much for the information. It also helps a lot to know the correct nomenclature! I find a lot more info under A-466.
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wizard
Posted 2018-12-06 1:28 AM (#574754 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: A488 Transmission Interchange



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I have no idea where the "8" or 488 came from, but many sites has this error.


The proper nomenclature is 466 though it's rarely used, cast iron TorqueFlite is the most common.

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Stroller
Posted 2018-12-16 11:23 AM (#575323 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange


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The 904 and 727 are identical except for the size and pan. Both are practically bomb proof. Even the sprags can handle extremly high torture and don't need welded unless being smacked with major ponies and rocket like line launches. To me interswap changeabilty with no issues is from around 64-65 to what the mid 90's? Prior to that typical it can be done with the will and means to make it work properly. I done decided before I ever transform an auto to a manual or vice versa I want the entire donor car sitting right next to the recipient.
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Shep
Posted 2018-12-16 3:24 PM (#575339 - in reply to #575323)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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I would be hesitant to use a stock 904 in a heavy car car with a strong engine, that's why they were used in lighter cars with less engine power, the 727 is way stronger.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-16 3:40 PM (#575340 - in reply to #575339)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Mopar aficionados have a tendency to think everything Mopar is superior to its competitors but, in reality, both the 727 and 904 are rife with weaknesses some of which have been corrected over the years and some not. Many of these weaknesses showed up in vehicles that were far from high performance.
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Shep
Posted 2018-12-16 4:26 PM (#575343 - in reply to #575340)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Well I can tell you my former NHRA record holding 64 Max Wedge Belvedere went almost 800 runs with no issues. Staked sprag , 4 pinion planetaries, racing clutches, usual reverse pattern valve body, boosted line pressure. 5.0 kick down lever, 3800 convertor. Car went 10.9's at 122 in the 80's, at 3600 lbs. Pretty good proof of reliability.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-12-16 10:38 PM (#575365 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: RE: 466 Transmission Interchange



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69rrgrabber - 2018-12-04 11:07 PM

Hello! Just curious if an A466 out of a 58 Dodge Swept side is the same as a 60 Imperial or 58 Desoto, Its just the iron case and internals. For $75 I can grab it to use for spare parts. About to start on mt 60 Imperial and thought it would be a good back up.


Sorry Carl. I only acquired a cross-over document today. The 58 Dodge Swept side used a 1738 227 Torqueflite. Same as in a 57-58 New Yorker or 58 Imperial. 60 Imperials used a similar but different (somehow) 2204 753:









Than said here are some more Note 4 cross-overs that might help. A 1960 Imperial is listed under 4-Q with this PN =2204753 for Imperial '60-61, Chrysler '60-61 HIPer exc Ram Man, Desoto '60-61 ext HIPer or Ram Man






Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-17 12:42 AM




(57-61Desoto3spdAutoCrossKeyToNo4.jpg)



(Note4CrossOvers.jpg)



(2204753_1960-61ImperialTorqueFliteCrosses.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 57-61Desoto3spdAutoCrossKeyToNo4.jpg (177KB - 29 downloads)
Attachments Note4CrossOvers.jpg (185KB - 26 downloads)
Attachments 2204753_1960-61ImperialTorqueFliteCrosses.jpg (165KB - 24 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-12-16 11:03 PM (#575366 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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For anyone wondering about the weight of these old transmissions, I just weighed mine. It is a '57 air cooled version without the bellhousing and without the torque converter. It weighs 165 lbs.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-17 1:06 PM (#575388 - in reply to #575343)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Shep - 2018-12-16 1:26 PM

Well I can tell you my former NHRA record holding 64 Max Wedge Belvedere went almost 800 runs with no issues. Staked sprag , 4 pinion planetaries, racing clutches, usual reverse pattern valve body, boosted line pressure. 5.0 kick down lever, 3800 convertor. Car went 10.9's at 122 in the 80's, at 3600 lbs. Pretty good proof of reliability.


IOW, you corrected the weaknesses.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-12-17 4:24 PM (#575392 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4108&posts...
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-12-17 4:38 PM (#575393 - in reply to #575392)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Thanks Chuck. That was a lot of typing. I presume it is like the attached(?) (Better resolution than what I posted yesterday)

60 dart - 2005-01-24 12:27 PM

here's the interchanges from 57-61 torqueflites------one shot-one listing-one time only------as they progress they get heavier-meaning their duty is greater------man this is going to be a lot of one finger typing---------------------------later

1854159
ply. 57-8 cyl.

1736546
des. 57 firesweep
dod. 57-58 325 except hd. and taxi
ply. 58 318 except hd.

1823593
chry. 56
chry. 57-58-wind. and sara.
des. 57 except firesweep
des. 58 except hd.
dod. 58 except 350-hd.
imp. 56
ply. 58 except 350 hd.

1824561
dod. 58 8 cyl. taxi except hd.

1854159
dod. 58 8 cyl. hd. except taxi
ply. 58 8 cyl. hd.

1854123
chry. 57-300
chry. 58-300 except hd.


1738227
chry. 57 ny.
chry. 57 ny.except hd.
imp. 57-58

1854165
des. 58 hd.

1854125
chry. 59
des. 59.
dod. 59-8 cyl.
ply. 59-8 cyl.

1854167
chry. 59
des. 59
dod. 59-8 cyl.
imp. 59
ply. 59-8 cyl.

1949277-hd.
chry. 59
des. 59
dod. 59-8 cyl.
imp. 59
ply. 59-8 cyl.

2204752
dod. 60-61-318
ply. 60-61-318

2204692
chry. 60-61 except ram man. or hp.
dod. 60-61-361-383 except ram man. or hp.
ply. 60-61-361-383 except ran man. or hp.

2204753
chry. 60-61 hp. except ran man.
des. 60-61 hp. or ram man.
imp. 60-61

2204695
des. 60-61 hp. except ram man.
dod. 60-61 361-383 hp.except ram man.
ply. 60-61 361-383 hp.except ram man.

2204693
chry. 60-61 ram man.
des. 60-61 ram man.
dod. 60-61 ram man.
ply. 60-61 ram man.

INSTALLATION NOTE>>>>>>>>>>>

#1 extension---two types of extensions were used---type #1---56-59 except ply. late 59---type#2---ply. late 59-60-61 all makes---when interchanging between the two types-switch housings.


Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-17 4:40 PM




(EarlyTorqueFliteInterchanges.jpg)



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Attachments EarlyTorqueFliteInterchanges.jpg (236KB - 28 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2018-12-18 4:50 AM (#575419 - in reply to #575366)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Powerflite - 2018-12-17 5:03 AM

For anyone wondering about the weight of these old transmissions, I just weighed mine. It is a '57 air cooled version without the bellhousing and without the torque converter. It weighs 165 lbs.



The oil cooled TorqueFlite weighs 242.5 lbs, complete with converter and bellhousing
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-12-18 10:17 AM (#575432 - in reply to #575419)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Powerflite - 2018-12-16 11:03 PM
For anyone wondering about the weight of these old transmissions, I just weighed mine. It is a '57 air cooled version without the bellhousing and without the torque converter. It weighs 165 lbs.



wizard - 2018-12-18 4:50 AM
The oil cooled TorqueFlite weighs 242.5 lbs, complete with converter and bellhousing


Well even before that info came out, I think I am in the market for a 57 Air-cooled Torqueflite.

The WTB post I just made:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=70335&...



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-12-18 10:19 AM
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57chizler
Posted 2018-12-18 1:50 PM (#575440 - in reply to #575432)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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The problem with the word "interchange" is how many collateral parts need to be swapped to make an interchange. If you swap enough collateral parts, a Chevy will interchange with a Mopar.
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2018-12-19 5:01 AM (#575473 - in reply to #575393)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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56D500boy - 2018-12-16 10:38 PM Thanks Chuck. That was a lot of typing. I presume it is like the attached(?) (Better resolution than what I posted yesterday)
60 dart - 2005-01-24 12:27 PM here's the interchanges from 57-61 torqueflites------one shot-one listing-one time only------as they progress they get heavier-meaning their duty is greater------man this is going to be a lot of one finger typing---------------------------later 1854159 ply. 57-8 cyl. 1736546 des. 57 firesweep dod. 57-58 325 except hd. and taxi ply. 58 318 except hd. 1823593 chry. 56 chry. 57-58-wind. and sara. des. 57 except firesweep des. 58 except hd. dod. 58 except 350-hd. imp. 56 ply. 58 except 350 hd. 1824561 dod. 58 8 cyl. taxi except hd. 1854159 dod. 58 8 cyl. hd. except taxi ply. 58 8 cyl. hd. 1854123 chry. 57-300 chry. 58-300 except hd. 1738227 chry. 57 ny. chry. 57 ny.except hd. imp. 57-58 1854165 des. 58 hd. 1854125 chry. 59 des. 59. dod. 59-8 cyl. ply. 59-8 cyl. 1854167 chry. 59 des. 59 dod. 59-8 cyl. imp. 59 ply. 59-8 cyl. 1949277-hd. chry. 59 des. 59 dod. 59-8 cyl. imp. 59 ply. 59-8 cyl. 2204752 dod. 60-61-318 ply. 60-61-318 2204692 chry. 60-61 except ram man. or hp. dod. 60-61-361-383 except ram man. or hp. ply. 60-61-361-383 except ran man. or hp. 2204753 chry. 60-61 hp. except ran man. des. 60-61 hp. or ram man. imp. 60-61 2204695 des. 60-61 hp. except ram man. dod. 60-61 361-383 hp.except ram man. ply. 60-61 361-383 hp.except ram man. 2204693 chry. 60-61 ram man. des. 60-61 ram man. dod. 60-61 ram man. ply. 60-61 ram man. INSTALLATION NOTE>>>>>>>>>>> #1 extension---two types of extensions were used---type #1---56-59 except ply. late 59---type#2---ply. late 59-60-61 all makes---when interchanging between the two types-switch housings.

 

Mine is a 1949904 A466 transmission. It's not in the list.

Happy Restoring!

Dieter





(group 21 transmission pg 21-19 1960 p m.jpg)



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Attachments group 21 transmission pg 21-19 1960 p m.jpg (119KB - 23 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-12-21 10:37 PM (#575614 - in reply to #575473)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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In defense of the A-488 vs A-466 "mistake", even Tom Hand (who is supposed to know something) called the cast-iron Torqueflite a "A-488"



REFERENCE: http://www.imperialclub.com/Articles/Torq-WPC/index.htm

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wizard
Posted 2018-12-22 2:17 AM (#575628 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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In my humble opinion, Chrysler is the most reliable source.

The cast iron hogs has been given many names over the years, just 8 is one.
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wizard
Posted 2019-01-02 2:03 AM (#576133 - in reply to #574679)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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Here's yet another Chrysler document that proves the A-466 denomination


A very good manual, covering the hydraulic circuits in the TorqueFlite A-466, but the mechanical manual is missing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-CHRYSLER-A-466-TORQUEFLITE-TRANSMISSIO...
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polara61
Posted 2019-01-02 2:02 PM (#576147 - in reply to #576133)
Subject: Re: 466 Transmission Interchange



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For me it’s always been A466 simply because it says so on that old Felpro gasketbox that I have.
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