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Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-01-31 3:50 PM (#577661)
Subject: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Sometimes when I start my 56 Dodge D500 315 hemi, I get a bit of a puff of smoke. I put that down to leaking valve stems seals (? - at least that is my thought). *IF* I was to change the seals, I am thinking that I could potentially do so by sliding the rocker over, against the spring while I proceeded to compress the spring(s), remove the keeper and the top hat, then spring(s) and then the worn valve stem seal (I would start with that before removing the head(s) to do the guides, etc. (a whole new can of worms if the head(s) were off).

Is this a valid trick with these old hemis?

What I would be looking at with the valve cover(s) off (the rockers slide towards the springs):



What the parts manual shows. (PS: I can NOT find PNs for both the intake and exhaust valves just the intake (??), 1558 025 (via 9-39-11):



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-31 3:51 PM




(55-58HemiValveTrainDiagram.jpg)



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Attachments 55-58HemiValveTrainDiagram.jpg (176KB - 9 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-01-31 4:09 PM (#577663 - in reply to #577661)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?


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Hmm your going to have to get the springs compressed to get the keeper off. So then you can pull seals over the valves... I think you'd have to pull the rocker shafts. If you're strong simply push the spring down by almost standing on them?
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-01-31 4:13 PM (#577664 - in reply to #577661)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?


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Some people fill the cylinder piston top with rope. Then push the piston up a bit, make it snug so you dont damage anything.



Edited by mikes2nd 2019-01-31 9:14 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-01-31 5:00 PM (#577667 - in reply to #577661)
Subject: RE: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Your original valve seals aren't worn because they don't exist. These early hemi motors didn't use valve seals. I know this for a fact on a Chrysler, but believe it is true on a Dodge & DeSoto as well. There are cheesy umbrella seals available in a Fel-pro kit that you can put on there, but the factory didn't use them.
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Shep
Posted 2019-01-31 5:25 PM (#577668 - in reply to #577667)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Location of the intake valve, unless the guides were extremely worn, eliminate the need for conventional seals. Make sure the drains are not blocked in the rear of the head. If you remove the rocker shafts you will loosen the head and need new head gaskets, I pulled the heads on my 55, machined the guides for PC seals, this was done during a complete rebuild, but again, really not necessary. The rings were bad in my engine.

Edited by Shep 2019-01-31 6:17 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-01-31 7:00 PM (#577671 - in reply to #577668)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Powerflite - 2019-01-31 5:00 PM

Your original valve seals aren't worn because they don't exist. These early hemi motors didn't use valve seals. I know this for a fact on a Chrysler, but believe it is true on a Dodge & DeSoto as well. There are cheesy umbrella seals available in a Fel-pro kit that you can put on there, but the factory didn't use them.



Shep - 2019-01-31 5:25 PM

Location of the intake valve, unless the guides were extremely worn, eliminate the need for conventional seals. Make sure the drains are not blocked in the rear of the head. If you remove the rocker shafts you will loosen the head and need new head gaskets, I pulled the heads on my 55, machined the guides for PC seals, this was done during a complete rebuild, but again, really not necessary. The rings were bad in my engine.


Thanks guys. I certainly learned something from your answers. When I had the valve covers off in 2017, I cleaned out the top of the head. It was pretty clean and there was nothing clogging the rear drain hole.


Bottomline is I'm going to ignore the odd puff of blue on start-up (which is typically after the car has been sitting for a few days). It clears up in a few seconds, so I don't think it is that serious. I thought if valve seals were easy, and there was a trick to make replacing them easier, I would tackle the job. As it is, I don't see a positive benefit/cost ratio. All downside/little upside.



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-02-01 12:52 AM
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Stroller
Posted 2019-02-17 11:33 AM (#578332 - in reply to #577661)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?


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56D a compressor and the spark plug hose fitting of a compression tester. Plugs out 1 hole at a time hook up the air to the inserted hose. Smack the top of the valves to break the keepers loose. Use either jaw type spring compressor or the bar thing you attach at the rocker stud and compress the spring, pull the keepers, let loose the spring compressor or bar, take off springs remove seal, install seal the rest is reverse, again 1 hole at a time.
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57chizler
Posted 2019-02-17 6:27 PM (#578343 - in reply to #577671)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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This tool works on motors with rocker shafts. The blue smoke not only leaves oily deposits in the exhaust system but it cakes carbon on the head of the valves. It's worth installing umbrella seals IMHO.

Edited by 57chizler 2019-02-17 6:32 PM




(VS Comp Cams 5324 (Small).jpg)



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Attachments VS Comp Cams 5324 (Small).jpg (17KB - 2 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-02-17 8:11 PM (#578347 - in reply to #578343)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Thanks for the input guys.

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57burb
Posted 2019-02-18 10:07 AM (#578360 - in reply to #578343)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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There is no exhaust valve oil seal. The exhaust valve experiences pressure, not vacuum, so no oil will get sucked in down the valve guide.

But there absolutely is an OEM intake valve seal used on these engines. That is an umbrella seal in the exploded diagram, 9-39-11. Chryslers use them too (pics shown)

Replacing those seals is a big-time operation. You're not just going to slide the rocker arm down the shaft and get at the valve seals with a set of wrenches. I looked at several variants of the service manuals I have, and none refer to doing this job with the heads installed. They would really need to come out to be able to get the proper access with a spring compressor. And at that point, the job is going to involve checking and replacing some other items (valve and guide diameter, spring pressure, valve seat wear, etc.) I would suggest holding off on replacing the seals for when you have a more urgent need than a puff of blue smoke.

But if you do decide to tackle it in-car, let us know how it works out!



(chry1.JPG)



(chry2.JPG)



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Attachments chry1.JPG (20KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments chry2.JPG (39KB - 5 downloads)
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wayfarer
Posted 2019-02-18 11:04 AM (#578364 - in reply to #577661)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Much depends on the amount of smoke produced at start-up. Just a little whiff, or a cloud that blocks the sun?
In oem configuration the intake valve does use a seal but in an old engine the rubber has been baked so many
times it crumbles and the bits and pieces end up in the oil pan or block the drain-back holes.
As valve stem wear increases and allows for oil to pass through then it is probably time for a valve job. Do it right, do it once.
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-02-18 8:09 PM (#578390 - in reply to #578364)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



Expert

Posts: 4245
2000200010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
wayfarer - 2019-02-18 11:04 AM

Much depends on the amount of smoke produced at start-up. Just a little whiff, or a cloud that blocks the sun?


Just a whiff that clears in a few seconds. Not every day or every start up. Typically if I haven't started the car in a few days. When I get back from holidays next week, I will note how much if any smoke happens after 3 weeks of no starting.

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60 dart
Posted 2019-02-18 11:20 PM (#578394 - in reply to #577661)
Subject: Re: Tricks for changing Valve Stem Seals on an early 55-58 Hemi?



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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA
years ago i welded an air fitting to an old gutted spark plug , hooked it up to my air hose full pressure . worked perfectly ----------------------------------------------later
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