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How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?
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jj94tt
Posted 2019-02-14 11:42 AM (#578208)
Subject: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

Hello everyone.

So, when talking about a low production count car... how far gone until it's time to part out and scrap?

I recently pulled a 300B from the woods in PA... bet you can guess what that was like. The frame was held together with frozen mud and the engine itself. But, it's still a B (dash, engine, drive train (powerflite), etc.... no air cleaner, though). Some of the badges are missing, but the stainless trim is there. It is rough... very rough.

I am considering stripping it and scraping the shell/frame. Is that a dumb idea? The VIN tag is missing, too... but the previous owner claims to have the correct VIN.

Just looking for opinions.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2vdk6eg.jpg

Thanks.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-02-14 12:47 PM (#578209 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Expert

Posts: 3835
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donor cars are not horrible... a coupe will cost you a bit more.


I would save a 300B... sweet cars. Frame is a cheap replace...
First step is to resolve the title, vin issue if it can be...

A car without a vin/title is near worthless endgame...
Does the engine turn?

a fair condition 300B is 33k per hagarty... so maybe 20k actually with a vin/title...
but it goes up steep... 125k for concourse
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jj94tt
Posted 2019-02-14 1:14 PM (#578211 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

Haven't looked too closely at the engine yet. It sat with the hood down, so there is a chance it's not too bad.

I suppose saving just the 300 parts is not the same as saving the whole car - despite the fact the any new owner will not bother with an inch of the old body/frame. Different states have different rules about title transfers, but, in most cases, I guess and title can't represent a box of parts.

First thing is obtaining the title, then looking into reproduced VIN tags, if such a thing exists.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-14 5:21 PM (#578216 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



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Location: So. California
If you don't have the title, nor the VIN, you have no idea what the proper VIN is. The guy could be making it up. If he has the VIN plate stashed somewhere, then get it, and you should save the car. But the people that reproduce the VIN plates REFUSE to make any without a title to back it up. In the end, no VIN and no title = parts car. Doesn't matter if it is a DeSoto Adventurer convertible. It would still be a parts car.
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jj94tt
Posted 2019-02-14 7:40 PM (#578224 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

This is all good information... thank you... but let's assume that I have the title but the car is missing the vin tag (this is the likely scenario, though, time will tell if it plays out that way). Is it still more valuable as a heap, than as a truck load of 300B parts.... I think that answer is yes.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-02-14 9:23 PM (#578227 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



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Location: Muskego, WI
Looks pretty rough, would be tough to restore and make any money on it. However, as someone that has restored a '56 Imperial coupe, there aren't many buyers for the parts you would have should you decide to part it. In either case, I just hope that all that is usable is put to use and not just recycled as scrap steel.

By the way, looks like you had a hell of a time getting the car out of there, but I love the fact that you still hear stories like this one.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-02-15 12:25 AM (#578231 - in reply to #578227)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



5000500050005000200010010010010025
Location: Parts Unknown
I had a similar condition 56 Adventurer years ago. It was a driver, but needed a
new body as a result of coastal salt fog. I found a good coupe for the swap and did
a lot of studying of details to ensure I built the car back correctly. I ultimately sold
the project in a thinning of the herd operation, but I would attack your 300 the same
way. Cars are generally a labor of love. If you base your interest on dollars, chances
are it will not work out. These were beautiful cars and fun to drive. I hope you see
this one through.
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slimwhitman
Posted 2019-02-18 11:57 AM (#578370 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Elite Veteran

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Location: Kansas City, Kansas
I love where this thread could go. Couldn't someone take the vin from this car (if found) and 300 specific parts and swap them over to a nice New Yorker hardtop? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective "restoration"?

I would make a 300B wagon out of the 300 parts, if it was me.
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jj94tt
Posted 2019-02-18 12:30 PM (#578371 - in reply to #578370)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

slimwhitman - 2019-02-18 12:57 PM

I love where this thread could go. Couldn't someone take the vin from this car (if found) and 300 specific parts and swap them over to a nice New Yorker hardtop? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective "restoration"?

I would make a 300B wagon out of the 300 parts, if it was me. ;)


I'd like to make one of these: http://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/513683/1956_300-B%20chr...

But then it would have to be titled as a "collector car" in PA... rather than "antique"... which is a hassle. :/


Are far as your first question goes, with these frame and body cars... it's my belief that you can do that and it should be considered as a "restored original", as opposed to a "clone". My 2 cents. I wonder what others think.


Edited by jj94tt 2019-02-18 12:31 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-02-20 9:13 PM (#578432 - in reply to #578371)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



5000500050005000200010010010010025
Location: Parts Unknown
As long as it's your car, do whatever the $#@ you want with it that makes you
happy. Where it all goes sideways is when you decide to sell it. Be true to your-
self, do what makes you happy, make a plan based on short and long term goals,
and execute. Fraud is bad. Don't go down that road if you don't want grief.
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Apollo 61
Posted 2019-02-21 12:59 AM (#578438 - in reply to #578432)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 387
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If your interested in a New Yorker coupe body I know where this one is in Northern California?

Edited by Apollo 61 2019-02-21 1:07 AM




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drosera88
Posted 2019-02-21 1:29 AM (#578439 - in reply to #578371)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Expert

Posts: 1266
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Location: San Antonio TX

jj94tt - 2019-02-18 11:30 AM
slimwhitman - 2019-02-18 12:57 PM I love where this thread could go. Couldn't someone take the vin from this car (if found) and 300 specific parts and swap them over to a nice New Yorker hardtop? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective "restoration"? I would make a 300B wagon out of the 300 parts, if it was me. ;)
I'd like to make one of these: http://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesimages/513683/1956_300-B%20chr... But then it would have to be titled as a "collector car" in PA... rather than "antique"... which is a hassle. :/ Are far as your first question goes, with these frame and body cars... it's my belief that you can do that and it should be considered as a "restored original", as opposed to a "clone". My 2 cents. I wonder what others think.

That would be an awesome restoration that would stand out. Normally I'd be against doing anything that isn't stock to a rare car like a letter car or Adventurer, but that right there is a pretty interesting direction to take the restoration. Even if it isn't the actual car, the paint job would be bringing a story back to life in a way. 

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jj94tt
Posted 2019-09-26 1:27 PM (#587980 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: RE: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

jj94tt - 2019-02-14 12:42 PM

Hello everyone.

So, when talking about a low production count car... how far gone until it's time to part out and scrap?

I recently pulled a 300B from the woods in PA... bet you can guess what that was like. The frame was held together with frozen mud and the engine itself. But, it's still a B (dash, engine, drive train (powerflite), etc.... no air cleaner, though). Some of the badges are missing, but the stainless trim is there. It is rough... very rough.

I am considering stripping it and scraping the shell/frame. Is that a dumb idea? The VIN tag is missing, too... but the previous owner claims to have the correct VIN.

Just looking for opinions.

Thanks.


Fixing pictures (link went bad).


Edited by jj94tt 2019-09-26 1:42 PM




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(IMG_0803.JPG)



(20190908_182734.jpg)



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Attachments 20190908_182734.jpg (288KB - 6 downloads)
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ronbo97
Posted 2019-09-26 4:56 PM (#587988 - in reply to #587980)
Subject: RE: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Expert

Posts: 3351
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Location: Connecticut

Instead of going thru all that back-breaking work of taking a super rusty car apart, why don't you sell it whole to someone that needs a parts car for their project ? You may remove the 300-only parts and scrap the rest, not realizing that the wheels, glass, power window regulators, windshield and rear glass gaskets, etc, may be exactly what someone needs for their project.

Ron

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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-09-26 7:51 PM (#587994 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Expert

Posts: 3835
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Can you do the work? This is a 50k endeavor if not.
If you can wait years hunt for a donor body and frame although those are getting hard to find and your looking at 6-8k for a reasonable Windsor. 4-5k engine rebuild, 3-5k in chrome, 4-7k in interior... You'd have a 50k car in the end if perfect. Assuming you can get a clean title and vin that matches the engine
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Mike McCandless
Posted 2019-09-27 7:37 AM (#588024 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Expert

Posts: 1719
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Lot more than 50k to get that thing restored, more like 100k if you're putting any value to labor.

Sell it as is and try to make some money. Slowly buy and flip things till you get to a point of being able to buy a car you really want. This isn't rare enough to be obsessed about it. There are a dozen 300B's for sale at any time. They don't bring big money even when fully restored.
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jj94tt
Posted 2019-09-27 10:23 AM (#588036 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

Thanks for the tips. I have a growing collection of junkers... acquired at pretty much no cost. Cars are a hobby for me, not investments... a nice car to me is a starting point for most people on these forums! In any case, I am mostly interested in saving vehicles... after all, they aren't planning to make any more of these as far as I know.

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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-09-27 11:48 AM (#588038 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



20001000
Location: Under the X in Texas
Chrysler 300 Letter Cars are not "gold". Most worth restoring have been. Interest in them has been waning because of cost of restoration and rarity of specific special parts like the $1500 AND UP delta wing air cleaner (have one?). I've parted out and scrapped a 300C and a 300D and never gave it a second thought. "Some must die that others may live". Watch auction prices on these for six months to a year before you put any time or money into it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-09-27 11:54 AM (#588040 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 5822
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Location: So. California
I agree with you Justin. You don't have to spend a fortune on it to make a good driver. Not everyone needs or wants a perfect show car. If the body is really bad, a good '56 2dr Windsor body doner would make the restoration process a whole lot easier, and you can get one pretty cheap.
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Apollo 61
Posted 2019-09-27 2:47 PM (#588056 - in reply to #588040)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 387
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This is a topic of interest to me. I once had a 318 A/C b body convert. I was going to make a 440 clone of it until a b body original 440 A/C convert came along. It was however rusty,patched and rusted through again. I could reach up and grab handfuls of rusty frame. The conv was also bent in places. However it was the same original color as the 318 conv with A/C.
I started to think about taking the 318 car and swapping the sheet metal over to the 440 car. However all I would really have is the 318 car cut apart then reassembled to itself. I started to think about a rebody on the 318 conv.
I mentioned doing this on a forum and practically banned for doing so. I eventually sold the project to somebody else.
My question for you guys is when does a car cease to be original?
Exactly how many parts can you replace before your called a rebodied car?
That 300 looks pretty flexible in the pics.
So if you were to take a solid Windsor coupe and use the frame and all the sheet metal except for maybe the firewall and drivetrain.
Would that be considered a rebody car?
Opinions anybody.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-09-27 2:56 PM (#588057 - in reply to #588056)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



20001000
Location: Under the X in Texas

Apollo 61, I can tell you the Chrysler 300 Club Inc. is EXTREMELY fussy about rebodies.  They want EVERYTHING to be number matching and their judging process is horrendous for authenticity.   They'll look for everything under the sun and take points off at every opportunity.  In other words, IMO you could NEVER bring that car up to their judging standards short of well over a six figure restoration and that is WITH your labor participation.   For years the club had trouble getting members to enter cars for judging.   Pretty obvious why, isn't it?    And the club offers a decoding of your VIN for free from the factory microfiche but will tell you that is NOT documentation of a car.   Only their super rigid judgement is a documentation that it is now EXACTLY the way it came from the factory.   I mean exactly.   Color, no extra options, etc. etc.

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jj94tt
Posted 2019-09-27 3:06 PM (#588058 - in reply to #588056)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Member

Posts: 22

Apollo 61 - 2019-09-27 3:47 PM
Exactly how many parts can you replace before your called a rebodied car?


Age old question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-09-27 3:58 PM (#588060 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: RE: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Expert 5K+

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Location: So. California
Who cares what the 300 club thinks? That's like directing your life based on what 2 old ladies say in their parlor. Who cares about trophies? I certainly don't. Rebody-ing is a lot easier with a '60's car because you just have to swap the dash and a couple of body numbers. But with a '50's car, you have to swap the whole body to the 300 frame (with possible motor number details on it) around the previous VIN number section. That's the legal way of doing it. Then you have successfully used the Windsor body to fix your real 300 car. I know of a few 300D's and 300C's that have used New Yorker bodies to do the same thing, but they'll never tell you that.
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ronbo97
Posted 2019-09-27 5:41 PM (#588064 - in reply to #588057)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


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StillOutThere - 2019-09-27 2:56 PM

Apollo 61, I can tell you the Chrysler 300 Club Inc. is EXTREMELY fussy about rebodies.  They want EVERYTHING to be number matching and their judging process is horrendous for authenticity.   They'll look for everything under the sun and take points off at every opportunity.  In other words, IMO you could NEVER bring that car up to their judging standards short of well over a six figure restoration and that is WITH your labor participation.   For years the club had trouble getting members to enter cars for judging.   Pretty obvious why, isn't it?    And the club offers a decoding of your VIN for free from the factory microfiche but will tell you that is NOT documentation of a car.   Only their super rigid judgement is a documentation that it is now EXACTLY the way it came from the factory.   I mean exactly.   Color, no extra options, etc. etc.

True, that they have rigid standards. No car gets more than about 925 out of 1000. But so what ? That is for their Concours judging. Usually just 2 or 3 cars go for that.  They also have non-concours judging at their spring meet. I know AACA has given first junior and senior awards to cars painted wrong color or have swapped out engines. Would rather have stricter standards than every car with shiny paint wins a prize. Then the award has no meaning.

Ron

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w.weiland
Posted 2019-09-27 9:03 PM (#588068 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?


Elite Veteran

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Part it if no one steps up
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Apollo 61
Posted 2019-09-28 12:14 AM (#588072 - in reply to #588068)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 387
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I know where this coupe is sitting in Northern California. It would be a chore to get it out. I know it's for sale but I didn't ask how much.



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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-09-28 3:05 PM (#588089 - in reply to #578208)
Subject: Re: How far gone before part-out and scrap for low prod car?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 557
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There is a point where you just know a car's soul is dead and gone and this looks like that state. Valiant effort to pull it out but it needs to give up its bits so that others can be restored. Like as stated before, you'd be way ahead by getting another car that is in better shape or already restored. The old saying of how to make a small fortune restoring cars applies here.

It's still amazing to me that such a glorious car ended up in this state but I also have been around long enough to remember when you could buy good ones cheap as just a used car. Maybe a little more special than any other used car but still. Just dig up any 300 club newsletter from the 1970s or 1980s or old Auto Traders to see amazing bargains on rare cars.
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