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1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan
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Viper Guy
Posted 2019-04-12 6:29 PM (#580790)
Subject: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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I plan on bidding on a fairly nice '55 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan tomorrow at an auction. It looks pretty stock on the outside, the interior is not original but very nice and matches the exterior nicely. The poly engine has been updated??? with hemi heads and the electrical is upgraded to 12 volts with an alternator. The rest of the car is OK but needs some TLC like the wipers try to work but don't, the window fuzzies are missing in places, the dash lights don't appear to work nor the interior light. Carpet looks good, and the trunk compartment is complete and even has some 1955 repair and parts books. I see no rust but can't tell if there has been any repairs.

What's it worth? The seller claims $30K but I think that is a big stretch. I know it's tough without pictures but if you go on the Branson Auction website, it's there. Take a look and advise. There is a video on the website. bransonauction.com

Edited by Viper Guy 2019-04-12 6:32 PM
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ABloch
Posted 2019-04-12 7:07 PM (#580791 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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IMO 20,000 is a stretch. Nice car!!

Edited by ABloch 2019-04-12 7:08 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-04-12 7:25 PM (#580792 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: RE: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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I was very surprised that there actually was a Belvedere 2dr Sedan (Savoy, yes, Plaza, absolutely, but Belvedere? Wow)



That said, not such thing as a Plymouth Hi-Fire hemi. (probably a 270 Dodge hemi)

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71charger_fan
Posted 2019-04-12 8:08 PM (#580797 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan


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I'll be interested to see what it sells for. I would have thought about $15k. But, for a rust-free V8, I might be thinking way too low. They may have tried to keep the '55 wiper motor when converting to 12V as I did. It just won't work as I found out. You may have to source a '56 wiper motor as they ground through the case and just reducing the voltage to the motor to 6V isn't enough as the polarity would now be wrong. Also, there's a chance they didn't change out the 6V bulbs for the 12V equivalents and they all burned out.

Edited by 71charger_fan 2019-04-12 8:12 PM
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Viper Guy
Posted 2019-04-12 9:02 PM (#580803 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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OK guys, I'll be bidding just to keep you Forward Lookers interested. I will not keep the car for myself but will be selling if I can buy it reasonable. I'm not trying to make a fortune but will sell for the best offer over what I pay including the buyer's fees. I'm hoping to be able to sell it for around $15K so I can't bid more than $13.5 or so and sell the car for $15K. Is there interest or?????
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ABloch
Posted 2019-04-12 9:31 PM (#580804 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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More likely a 260 with hemi heads(based on the block number). Looks like they kept the 2bbl intake. Love the pillar!
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-04-12 10:24 PM (#580806 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan


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is that a leather wrap on the steering ?
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Viper Guy
Posted 2019-04-13 7:31 PM (#580830 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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Just an FYI: Car hammered at $23K.
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-04-13 7:51 PM (#580832 - in reply to #580804)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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ABloch - 2019-04-12 6:31 PM

More likely a 260 with hemi heads(based on the block number). Looks like they kept the 2bbl intake.


I didn't know about a 260 (or a 241) Hy-Fire V8 as referenced by allpar:

"The biggest news of the year was the “new” V-8 engine. The engine was not really new and was supplied to Plymouth by Dodge division until a new engine foundry could be completed to supply Plymouth with its own engines. The Dodge V-8, introduced in its B-series of light-duty trucks, delivered 145hp from a displacement of 241ci. Although a Plymouth V-8 had been rumored for several years, it had been held up by the Korean War (as were V-8 engines for Dodge and DeSoto) and Plymouth’s lack of manufacturing capabilities. Plymouth's first true V-8 would not appear until 1956, and then only slightly changed from the Dodge version.

At first the Plymouth V-8 was offered in two displacements—a 241ci rated at 157hp with a bore and stroke of 3.44x3.25in and a 167hp, 260ci engine with a larger bore of 3.563in, both using a compression ratio of 7.6:1. Shortly after introduction, a four barrel 177hp version of the 260 hit the streets. Maximum torque was achieved at 2400rpm on all engines, the 241 pumping out 217lb-ft and the 260 claiming 231lb-ft whether two- or four-barrel-equipped. Called the Hy-Fire V-8, the Plymouth version differed from other corporate V-8s in that the engine was not a “Hemi.” "



REFERENCE: https://www.allpar.com/history/plymouth/1946-1959/plymouth-1955.html



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-04-13 7:52 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-04-13 10:09 PM (#580838 - in reply to #580832)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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Just watched the video on the car. Supposedly a factory/dealer conversion. If the 260 = Dodge does that mean that the hemi heads they used for the conversion are Dodge (241? 270?). Truck? Industrial?

http://bransonauction.com/april-auction-consignments/plymouth/1955-...

???



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-04-13 10:10 PM
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ABloch
Posted 2019-04-14 12:39 AM (#580841 - in reply to #580830)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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Viper Guy - 2019-04-13 5:31 PM

Just an FYI: Car hammered at $23K.


Well I'll be darned! Good deal for someone.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-04-14 9:55 PM (#580882 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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That's much more than they could have got from Ebay on it. Most people call the Dodge motor in the '55 Plymouth the 259, and yes, it would have used 270 or 241 heads, although they aren't much different from the 315, 325 heads. I would want to test drive it before purchasing to see if they upped the compression before fitting the hemi heads....
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Chrycoman
Posted 2019-04-15 11:58 AM (#580915 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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P27-240662 - The 27 does not mean built in Los Angeles. It is model P27, Plymouth V8. The Plymouth Six was P25.

26,543,662 - Plymouths with serial numbers starting with "26" means they were V8 models built in Los Angeles - and that is for V8 models from 1955 to 1957. Prior to 1955 serial numbers starting with "26" were used for Plymouth sixes built at San Leandro, CA, a plant that Dodge opened in 1949 for Plymouth and Dodge production and closed at the end of the 1954 model year (lack of sales).

Plymouth Six, model P25, used serial numbers starting with "25" at Los Angeles (1946-1957) as well as San Leandro (1949-1954). LA numbers were 25,0xx,xxx to 25,500,000 with San Leandro being 25,5xx,xxx and up to 26,000,000.

Plymouth V8 engines for 1955 were built by Dodge for Plymouth. The 241.3-cid Plymouth V8 was the 1953-54 Dodge engine while the 260 was a 241 with bore increased from 3.44" to 3.56". Stroke was 3.25"on both plus the Dodge D55. The D55 engine had a bore of 3.63" to give 269 cid (in Engineering Dept reports). The advertising people pushed it up to 270. Although 1955 Dodge V8 engines were built as hemi head engines, the Plymouth V8 engines were poly heads.

In the U.S. the switch from 241 to 260 V8 was at engine number P27-60201 while the switch in Canada occurred as of P27-1490-C and D59-1500-C for manual transmission and P27-1511-C and D59-1516-C for engines with Powerflite.

The story of the Korean War being the cause of the delay for the Plymouth engine is not quite true. Virgil Exner was made head of Chrysler Corporation styling in 1952. One of the first things he was able to accomplish was to convince Chrysler management to dump the idea of updating the 1954 models with new grilles, taillights and some sheetmetal tweaks for 1955 and instead go for a major overhaul of the 1953-54 bodies. Management went for it and two years later the new 1955 models were introduced.

After the revision of orders for 1955 styling (this is still in 1952), Exner pushed for a V8 engine for the 1955 Plymouth. Chevrolet was working on a new V8 for 1955 while Ford was putting the final touches to their new 1954 V8. I am surprised Chrysler management knew nothing about those two engines (as well as Pontiac's new 1955 V8 engine). Chrysler did have factory available for Plymouth engine production on Mound Road just north of Detroit that became available with the purchase of Briggs Body. The plant was enlarged and retooled. The Canadian engine plant also had to make room for V8 production. Both plants were ready to go for the 1956 model year.

The Plymouth engine for 1956 was completely new, sharing nothing with Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler. The Plymouth V8 bore centre measurement was larger than both DeSoto and Dodge. Also, the Plymouth V8 was built only as a polyhead - no hemis. And due to the bore centres and block heights no manifolds or heads from Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler V8 engines would fit the Plymouth V8 - or A block as it would become known.

So the Plymouth engine delay was more due to management complacency as opposed to the Korean War. After all, Lincoln got a new V8 in 1952, Ford a new ohv six in 1952, Ford, Mercury, Lincoln and Nash all got new bodies, and Willys was able to tool up the completely new Aero line.


Edited by Chrycoman 2019-04-15 12:03 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-04-15 1:27 PM (#580922 - in reply to #580915)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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Thanks for that info Bill.

So if this Plymouth hemi story is true, where do you think they sourced the heads from? A 54 240 Dodge hemi or a 55 270 Dodge hemi? Or is there a difference?

Casting numbers would probably help.

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-04-15 3:42 PM (#580936 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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The story of a factory/dealer hemi conversion? It's either stupidity or a plain lie. There is no "if" about it. The parts weren't even available to make a 259 into a hemi as the bore is completely different. Even today, it would require custom pistons to make the compression decent. That's why I said that I would want to test drive to see what the compression was like. Since it is obviously done by an owner at some point, he could have used any Dodge heads he wanted to. As to the difference between 241 and 270 heads, it's mainly in the valve sizes.
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57burb
Posted 2019-04-15 7:24 PM (#580942 - in reply to #580922)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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I know that it's a nice car, but that seems like a LOT of money for any '55 Plymouth sedan.

For that price, at minimum I would want to see receipts for the engine work, and I'd also expect all of the electric components to be functional after converting to 12v.

The Dodge Hemi heads bolt right onto a Plymouth V8 block. As Nathan has said, you need custom made pistons to get the compression back into a reasonable range with the larger Hemi combustion chambers. This engine combination was first popularized by land speed racers at Bonneville in the late '50s when D-class lakesters were restricted to under 260ci. The rule was initially intended to allow 239ci Ford flatheads to be bored and stroked and not have to compete with overhead valve engines, but racers are ingenious and the little 259 Plymouth Hemis really cleaned up.

Edited by 57burb 2019-04-15 7:25 PM




(TheImpossibleTankpic12.jpg)



(TheImpossibleTankpic08.jpg)



(TheCrew.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments TheImpossibleTankpic12.jpg (212KB - 12 downloads)
Attachments TheImpossibleTankpic08.jpg (28KB - 14 downloads)
Attachments TheCrew.jpg (83KB - 13 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-04-16 6:06 PM (#580986 - in reply to #580790)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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That's one mean little Plymouth motor! That motor wouldn't need the extra compression pistons. I'm sure it had plenty of compression, and some to spare. But it probably still used forged flat tops in it instead of the stock poly cast pistons. They could have also used the 241 Dodge hemi, but sitting right under the 260 ci limit definitely has its advantages.
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montanabill
Posted 2019-05-05 1:29 AM (#581791 - in reply to #580792)
Subject: RE: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan


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Here's a picture of my '55 Belvedere 2 door club sedan with the Sportone paint option. The Belvederes were available in '55 as 2 door sedans, 2 door hardtops, 4 door sedans and station wagons too. 56 added the 4 door hardtops as well. I think it's a great looking car.

Edited by montanabill 2019-05-05 1:58 AM




(My '55 Front Right Best.jpg)



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Attachments My '55 Front Right Best.jpg (92KB - 5 downloads)
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montanabill
Posted 2019-05-05 1:49 AM (#581792 - in reply to #581791)
Subject: RE: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan


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I subframed my '55 Belvedere with a '77 Diplomat front frame so that I could gain some more modern things like torsion bars, power disc brakes, power steering and so on. Am using a warmed up 318 with a 904 for power. When I took out the wiring under the dash I was not super careful as far as marking wires as I knew I was going to switch to 12 volts with a negative ground for electrical power. The '55s all had 6 volt positive ground systems. I pirated heater, defroster, and windshield wiper motors out of a '56 Plymouth which got me to 12 volt negative ground for those. Also bought the gas and temperature gauges out of that car. In '56 they went to idiot lights for oil and my oil gauge had a direct pressure line to the engine so no change needed there. Anyway the 56 fuel gauge I am trying to get working has 2 terminals on the back. One threaded post with a nut to hold the wires and one is a receiver for a small plug in type terminal end. The tank sending unit is reading around 8 ohms which is about right for the amount of fuel in the tank. No matter which way I hook up the 12 volt power lead and the tank sending unit I am getting no response on the gauge. There is continuity through the gauge so think that should be OK. There are some fabric washers on the gauge mounting screws so it appears that the gauge itself is not supposed to be grounded? I have found a brand new gauge but it's spendy and am reluctant to buy it if I don't need it. Any help out there?



(Gas Gauge Front.jpg)



(Gas Gauge Rear.jpg)



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Attachments Gas Gauge Front.jpg (19KB - 6 downloads)
Attachments Gas Gauge Rear.jpg (24KB - 5 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-05-05 4:10 AM (#581795 - in reply to #581792)
Subject: RE: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan



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The biggest thing to be aware of for one of these 55-56 (if not others) fuel gauges is the ground for the sender. Normally, the sender would ground through the tank to the frame. However, if *somebody* got over zealous with the paint, etc. the sender/tank will not be grounded to the frame and, as a result, the fuel gauge will NOT function as desired.


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Fin_ish Floyd
Posted 2019-05-13 2:26 PM (#582114 - in reply to #580797)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door sedan


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Hmmmm!

Dodge water pump, Dodge water pump plumbing, Dodge intake manifold---- I tink he look a lik a Dodge 325 maybe?
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