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1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-08 6:59 AM (#583110 - in reply to #583084)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-07 7:32 PM

yes your whining, bitching and attacking the guy... oh he's fake!!, he pretending!! also you ignore the fact that the parts DON'T EXIST...

OH my god he's pretending its a generator... he never said it was the OE system(he said it was like the original system if you upgraded it with a modern system), so when you call him a liar/fake/pretend, that's an attack.


Are you aware that everything that has been posted can be read again and again? So it makes no sense to post lies. I never called the owner a liar or the other things,
but I call you a liar, because you are lying, obvious for everyone

The only person who is whining is you. Like all liberals you can't cope with other peoples opinions and want to shut them down. You are a drama queen and cry baby. You are not god, learn to live with it.
Again, I just posted my opinions and explained clearly why. This is a discussion board.

Please stop attacking other people for posting their opinions. Thank you.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-08 10:51 AM
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Mike McCandless
Posted 2019-06-08 8:49 AM (#583112 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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There have been 1-2 of these former fuel injecting cars for sale for awhile. They weren't overly expensive. If you want one restored that way, buy it and do it. They haven't been hard to acquire, but nobody did anything with them. At least this allows people to know that a FI car existed within Chrysler in 1958. The car just got exposed to a ton of people. I get wishing it was original, but that seems impossible these days to accomplish.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-08 11:27 AM (#583120 - in reply to #583110)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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1960fury - 2019-06-08 6:59 AM  Thank you.

Keep editing your posts... I guess i have to quote everything you post if were in a interenet fight.

You did call him a fake and saying pretend blah, blah. nice try though.  We all know he wasnt lying or pretending anything that wasnt 100% true about his vehicle.

You claim he's trying to pass is it off as 100% Original, he never did.  I never attacked you, i simply stated you calling him a liar/fake isnt cool. Im glad you edited your posts.  Im done

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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-08 10:05 PM (#583133 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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The simple fact stands - it has a hollow ring to it when you fluff up the car because it was a FI car when it no longer runs the very system that made the car special.

The system didn't work in 1958? So what if it did or didn't? This is 2019 and it's reasonable an original system could be made to work with some effort and understanding.

Like the turbine car, the system wasn't a failure. You can be sure Chrysler learned a bunch from the experience. Just like the learned the turbine had limitations that proved it to be unfeasible, same for the injection. If they hadn't done it...they never woulda learned.


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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-09 9:12 AM (#583140 - in reply to #583120)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-08 11:27 AM

1960fury - 2019-06-08 6:59 AM  Thank you.

Keep editing your posts... I guess i have to quote everything you post if were in a interenet fight.

You did call him a fake and saying pretend blah, blah. nice try though.  We all know he wasnt lying or pretending anything that wasnt 100% true about his vehicle.

You claim he's trying to pass is it off as 100% Original, he never did.  I never attacked you, i simply stated you calling him a liar/fake isnt cool. Im glad you edited your posts.  Im done



You are a liar. I did edit my post simply to rearange the layout (and maybe a few typos) as you needed to scroll from left to right to read my messages.
It is something you see after you posted and it is clearly visible WHEN I edited my messages, shortly after I posted them and long before you posted that I call the D owner a liar.

My last post (edit) before you claimed I was calling the guy a liar was made 6:55 PM. Your post stating I was calling the guy a liar was made 7:32 PM.
Proof that you are lying.
How does it feel to be exposed as a liar in public?

I never called the owner of the D a fake and a liar, cry baby. Is that all you can resort to? After running out of arguments
posting lies? You are pitiful being. I simply posted my opinion and I stand to what I said, as I just stated facts.
It was you drama queen who started the whining and crying, as usual.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-09 9:36 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-09 9:20 AM (#583141 - in reply to #583133)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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GregCon - 2019-06-08 10:05 PM

The simple fact stands - it has a hollow ring to it when you fluff up the car because it was a FI car when it no longer runs the very system that made the car special.

The system didn't work in 1958? So what if it did or didn't? This is 2019 and it's reasonable an original system could be made to work with some effort and understanding.




Exactly, but you need to be technically minded to understand. Obvously that is the problem. It is amazing how many automobile "engineers" and "experts" we have here. They all repeat only hearsay, yet claim to be more knowing and capable than the Chrysler engineers.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-09 12:40 PM (#583152 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Your words NOT MINE... You should go back and finish your editing...

Pretend
VERB
speak and act so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact it is not.
"I closed my eyes and pretended I was asleep"

Faking
VERB
faking (present participle)
forge or counterfeit (something).
"the woman faked her spouse's signature"
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57burb
Posted 2019-06-09 12:46 PM (#583153 - in reply to #583152)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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I'm not sure why this has devolved, but I got no beef with any of ya. I love the car and that it has an EFI system that uses original hardware with functional electronics on it.

Up next, let's talk about... D501s!!!!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-06-09 2:58 PM (#583161 - in reply to #583099)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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I can't get past the modern air in the tires ....
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-06-09 3:22 PM (#583162 - in reply to #583161)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Henry Ford "painted" his 1915-25 cars with Gilsonite. Model T restorations
today are faked with modern paint. Disgusting fraud. What has the world
come to ?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-06-09 3:25 PM (#583163 - in reply to #583162)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Anyone putting radial tires on a finned car should be skinned with a belt sander
and placed under a vinegar drip. Why this isn't considered a crime against humanity,
I do not know. Let's get serious here, people !
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1955Coronado
Posted 2019-06-10 1:29 PM (#583215 - in reply to #583163)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Doctor DeSoto - 2019-06-09 1:25 PM

Anyone putting radial tires on a finned car should be skinned with a belt sander
and placed under a vinegar drip. Why this isn't considered a crime against humanity,
I do not know. Let's get serious here, people !


That's actually what I'd do to anyone trying to shame me into dropping meaningful dollars into bias plys.

I can't remember just what I dropped for 'em in 1991, but I gave 'em a shot on my '57 Lincoln Premiere 2-door hardtop. $#!t was like trying to teach a pig to walk a tightrope - was near impossible to drive on the freeway. Got rid of 'em a few weeks later.

And, with the fools who are on the streets these days, there's a few realities of present day life that need to be acknowledged in everyday driving of these cars: Pavement isn't like it was in 1958 - stopping power needs to be more precise and dependable, same with ignition and acceleration. Not to mention, being in Arizona, air conditioning is an absolute necessity - whether the car was originally built with it or not.

Also, living in Arizona, I've got to laugh at people who are purist enough to look for original, period factory stamped radiator hoses when, where I live, though the cars may stay rust free, rubber/weatherstripping etc. are the first things to go. Hell - you're lucky if you get 2 good years out of your battery.....
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58coronet
Posted 2019-06-10 2:05 PM (#583217 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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If your Lincoln handled that poorly the front suspension and steering linkage was probably worn and it needed an alignment. Granted, radial tires do improve and mask a worn out front end, but when everything in the front end is tight the cars handled and rode surprisingly well with bias ply's. I should know, I own a 1958 Coronet with new Super Cushions, and a mint original 28,000 mile 1963 Impala that runs, handles and rides like a dream with bias plys.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-10 2:25 PM (#583218 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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It's not the front suspension that is at fault. I've experienced the issue as well. There are 2 problems with running modern bias plys. First is the new tires aren't nearly as good as the old ones were. Secondly, a lot of these cars are running with zero caster or even negative caster. Bias plys are much harder to control without a decent amount of caster. Add 1.5 to 2 degrees of caster, and they become much more tolerable.....but still not as stable as radials.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-10 2:55 PM (#583219 - in reply to #583152)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-09 12:40 PM

Your words NOT MINE... You should go back and finish your editing...

Pretend
VERB
speak and act so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact it is not.
"I closed my eyes and pretended I was asleep"

Faking
VERB
faking (present participle)
forge or counterfeit (something).
"the woman faked her spouse's signature"


Interesting, I never received an english lesson from someone who does not know the difference between "your" and "you're". My words? No, just yours.

Pretending is not lying. By putting the alternator in a generator housing, for instance, the owner of the D is pretending he runs
a generator but he is not lying about it. Nothing wrong with that. Someone who drives a "sleeper" isn't "lying" either.

Pretending is an entirely different thing, just like faking. Lying is saying or writing knowingly the untruth, and that is what you did.

Again:

1960fury - 2019-06-09 9:12 AM

My last post (edit) before you claimed I was calling the guy a liar was made 6:55 PM. Your post stating I was calling the guy a liar was made 7:32 PM.
Proof that you are lying.
How does it feel to be exposed as a liar in public?




Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-10 2:57 PM
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2019-06-10 3:19 PM (#583226 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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OK, THIS IS NOT FUN ANY MORE!!! REALLY?? SOME PEOPLE NEED TO GROW UP! I had to change my settings so my phone wouldn't get blown up with this juvenile BS...
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58coronet
Posted 2019-06-10 8:00 PM (#583249 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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I doubt anyone on this site realizes that at least two of these fuel injected 58 Mopars are being restored currently, one being a 300D in California and will run with the original injection components. The owners are not public with these projects due to the rarity and value of the cars.

I certainly hope these owners/restorers do not frequent this site and read the embarassing juvenile banter on this thread. I doubt they would ever disclose anything on here in the future due to the content of this thread.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-10 10:39 PM (#583262 - in reply to #583219)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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1960fury - 2019-06-10 2:55 PM  Interesting, I never received an english lesson from someone who does not know the difference between "your" and "you're". My words? No, just yours. 

really?  are you sure? hah 

https://writingexplained.org/your-vs-youre-difference

 

 

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fc7_plumcrazy
Posted 2019-06-11 5:33 PM (#583295 - in reply to #583163)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Doctor DeSoto - 2019-06-09 3:25 PM

Anyone putting radial tires on a finned car should be skinned with a belt sander
and placed under a vinegar drip. Why this isn't considered a crime against humanity,
I do not know. Let's get serious here, people !


I agree


Despite that I can't understand the childish discussion going on.
The 300D got restored with some mods that I wouldn't have done personally either.
But it is owned by Per Blixt and he is the only one who has to like it.

No man with nice car needs to be justified.

Being small minded or self-opinionated isn't helpful for people who enjoy similar cars.

Carsten
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moparsteve
Posted 2019-06-11 7:21 PM (#583308 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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ALLRIGHT MAN STOP IT JUST EVERYONE STOP THIS BITCHING AND INSULTING EVERYONE OKAY?
IS MODERATEOR WATCHING THIS?

as for the car .. wow the sound of that engine!!!!! one of 21.. its not for sale doesn't matter if the fi is orig. or not.... try to find
a unit..
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1955Coronado
Posted 2019-06-11 8:51 PM (#583314 - in reply to #583217)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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58coronet - 2019-06-10 12:05 PM

If your Lincoln handled that poorly the front suspension and steering linkage was probably worn and it needed an alignment. Granted, radial tires do improve and mask a worn out front end, but when everything in the front end is tight the cars handled and rode surprisingly well with bias ply's. I should know, I own a 1958 Coronet with new Super Cushions, and a mint original 28,000 mile 1963 Impala that runs, handles and rides like a dream with bias plys.


I had the front end rebuilt prior to making it a daily driver - about 9 months before trying bias plys - aligned with a rebuilt steering box and straight (no) canter. Radials first (worn - the ones that were on the car when I bought it), then bias plys, then back to radials - all on the original-to-the-car steelies. If I know the car is mechanically sound (save for the under-exercised engine, it was), steering (including front suspension) and brakes are always first to get shaped up if they need it (far as brakes, I kept the drums and had a dual master installed - I wasn't about to drive a near 5,000 pound car with a single master that looked, roughly, the size of a thimble).

The result of the bias plys? Sloppy handling with no real sure foot and it seemed like they picked up every stray groove in the pavement and wanted to follow it. I put the radials (new) back on and that '57 Lincoln drove and handled so smooth, I was popped (pulled over) early one morning in the fall of 1991 doing 116 mph thinking I was doing 80 (one problem with the original engine swap - for another, stock 368 V-8 and Cruise-O-Matic - back in May, 1991 was that the dang speedo cable kept slipping out of the trans).

They were 235/75R15 slim whites and looked a bit barren, but I'll be darned if they didn't make that '57 into a sure-footed two-fingered steerer that didn't sway and lurch all over hell.....
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-06-11 10:24 PM (#583317 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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I doubt Chrysler had really completed ALL necessary testing on these units, there are often unforeseen issues. Sometimes there are known issues and they are covered up or ignored instead of addressed, I wouldn't put much stock in car companies (or any large corporation) doing the right thing. How often are cars recalled today? How often are there issues with cars that even get people killed? GM ignition switches. Ford fuel tanks. Toyota floor mats/accelerator pedals. VW and Fiat Chrysler have both had diesel emission scandals. Trusting that the company did the right thing is definitely the wrong approach. Chrysler messed up and they pulled the plug before the problem got any bigger.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-06-12 12:07 AM (#583321 - in reply to #583317)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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The Lincoln handled poorly because of the non-original air in the tires ... Duh !

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60 Imp
Posted 2019-06-12 9:13 AM (#583326 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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This has become my favorite thread!

The highlights are......

Mike and Sid's sparring is teaching me some important Chinglish. Very important for Australians!
Doc's technical detail the modern reproduction plastic emblems, crappy modern paint and the importance of OEM tire air is a surprise!
Arizona Mike, thanks for kicking the thread off and the info on the Lincoln handling like a pig with Bias plys,

All valuable info!

Seriously though, it is a very neat car to see in a video, Per did a good job bringing this car back from the dead, irrespective of opinions otherwise.

Everyone needs to calm the F#(k down, and we need to get the moderators to post up a hurt feelings form somewhere. Some good ones here......

https://me.me/t/hurt-feelings-report

Ride on.

Steve.





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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-12 9:51 AM (#583330 - in reply to #583308)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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moparsteve - 2019-06-11 7:21 PM

ALLRIGHT MAN STOP IT JUST EVERYONE STOP THIS BITCHING AND INSULTING EVERYONE OKAY?
IS MODERATEOR WATCHING THIS?



It is always interesting to see all the "good people" speak up suddenly, after this thing is long settled to show everyone how reasonable they are and trying to spark it up again. Again, this is settled, therefore your messages are pointless and your intentions^ are obvious.

Those who are not the victims of denunciation should stfu.

In my opinion calling a man a liar is a big offence. If someone accuses me of things I didn't do, I act allergic to it and I will defend myself. This has something to do with the history of this forum.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-12 9:52 AM
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Chrys 68
Posted 2019-06-13 7:29 AM (#583370 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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You nailed it Per!

The car is absolutely wonderful!

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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-13 8:25 AM (#583372 - in reply to #583370)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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After mulling this over a bit...it occurs to me that the reason some don't think it's a big deal that the car does not run the OEM FI system is....they don't understand anything about FI systems.

It's kinda like when you ask a girl what kind of engine her Mustang has and she says "I don't know. I just put gas in it!"

It's like meeting a good looking girl in the rainbow part of town and not caring what she's packing under her beltline. What's does it matter if she's hot?

For those who understand about things that go on under the hood, it's easy to see why using a Volkswagen EFI in lieu of a 1958 Chrysler system would make a big difference in the authenticity of the car. It's not air in the tires or a WalMart battery, boys. It's a major difference.




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skyhawk
Posted 2019-06-13 11:39 PM (#583406 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Chrysler Engineering evaluation report on the Bendix Electrojector system. Sources indicate the report--dated 1960--was submitted in response to the feasibility of using the system on the ram induction manifolds. Might clear up some conceptions voiced on another post.

file:///C:/Users/Dennis/Pictures/Technical%20Report%20-%20A676%20Bendix%20Fuel%20Injection%20System%20Evaluation%20(1).pdf

12 pages so I didn't attach it. dc
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-06-14 1:41 AM (#583411 - in reply to #583406)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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skyhawk - 2019-06-13 8:39 PM

Chrysler Engineering evaluation report on the Bendix Electrojector system. Sources indicate the report--dated 1960--was submitted in response to the feasibility of using the system on the ram induction manifolds. Might clear up some conceptions voiced on another post.
12 pages so I didn't attach it.


No worries. Here is a working link:

http://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/efi/Technical%20Report%20-%20A6...

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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-14 3:38 AM (#583415 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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so they didnt test it, they basically just tried to take the bendix system and toss it on... funny in 1960 they wrote up their failure...

just winged it
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57burb
Posted 2019-06-14 12:15 PM (#583428 - in reply to #583372)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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GregCon - 2019-06-13 7:25 AM

After mulling this over a bit...it occurs to me that the reason some don't think it's a big deal that the car does not run the OEM FI system is....they don't understand anything about FI systems.


I'm not taking that comment personally, but repeating the argument that this car is running "2005 Volkswagen" fuel injection is terribly flawed. Here's my take on it.

The modern VW EFI does not use a return style fuel system; it utilizes direct injection, not port injection; it uses distributorless ignition; the ignition and injector pulses are timed by hall effect sensors on the crank and cam(s); and most importantly, it uses exhaust gas sensors for real time system feedback on the operation of the engine, injection, and catalyst.

For the sake of accuracy, the Bendix EFI architecture encompasses nearly all the required mechanical hardware and electronic sensors that make up a 1990s-era EFI system. It uses individual port injectors; it has a return style fuel system; sensors measure manifold vacuum, throttle position, and air intake temperature; the necessary fuel curve is inferred by a calibrated system of sensors and preprogrammed electronics that control injector pulse width. The key differences are that the "modern" EFI systems utilize exhaust gas sensors, and the computers control ignition timing -- and I don't see evidence that Per implemented a computer controlled ignition here. It appears to be a standard Hemi distributor with vacuum advance (ie - not computer controlled). I assume Per is using a wideband O2 and some kind of modern crank triggering for the EFI in lieu of a "second distributor" (which does the same basic job of determining crankshaft position) to control injector timing. But that is still a far cry from inferring he cobbled together a bunch of junkyard EFI parts to get the car on the road. The 1958 Electrojector design was fundamentally sound, but Per was right to use the 1958 parts that do work, and skip the 1958 technology that doomed the project (faulty sensors, decaying electronics, leaky and mismatched injectors).

From reading the 1960 report, it's clear the one thing the Electrojector did not have - that directly led to its failure - was the lack of a feedback system to allow the computer to monitor the A/F ratio and compensate as necessary. Instead, Chrysler tuned the system for high engine speed enrichment only, which means the car ran like crap in every other use case and fuel economy was abysmal. It's right there in the report - the program was cancelled because the cars never performed satisfactorily. "It is recommended that no future development of the "Electrojector" system be undertaken" is not vague and does not indicate the engineers reviewing the project had any confidence that they could make it work within the technological constraints of the time.

Bosch designed the first oxygen sensor in the 1960s and transformed all of the Electrojector concepts into a successful reality.

Edited by 57burb 2019-06-14 12:35 PM




(conclusions.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments conclusions.jpg (169KB - 1 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-06-14 4:01 PM (#583444 - in reply to #583428)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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This whole argument is invalid. The car is restored using new thread material in the upholstery,
the paints made of materials not used in the original formulas, as mentioned before, it rides on
still-not-invented radial tires, filled with air 60+ years newer than the car. No mention is made,
but I am betting the seals and rubber are all made of non-EOM spec materials. This car is a total
fraud and someone needs a spanking.
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