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1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage
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1955Coronado
Posted 2019-06-03 1:24 AM (#582859)
Subject: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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They gave out with a teaser a few weeks back - here's the feature:

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-03 3:22 AM (#582860 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Jay is a great guy. It's really cool that he showcased Per's car like that. Jay recently purchased another Imperial that Per is working on so he's getting into the '50's Mopars a little more. Anyone ever hear of that dealer option master cylinder remote reservoir? I'll have to ask Per about it the next time I talk to him.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-03 1:25 PM (#582872 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Man that car sounds amazing, I know he has been looking to ditch his 58 Dodge but he made it so specific to his taste(dog dishes/regal lancer seats).

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57burb
Posted 2019-06-03 2:26 PM (#582875 - in reply to #582860)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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A few inaccuracies throughout the whole thing, but I enjoyed Per and Jay cruising around in the car and chatting like old friends. Beautiful and interesting car, and a great video.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2019-06-03 10:59 PM (#582896 - in reply to #582875)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Super cool!  Let's see - if my arithmetic is correct - that makes exactly two running and driving EFI cars.

That is a fun video. 

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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-03 11:14 PM (#582898 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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I think that dealer option brake fluid filler was available on a lot of brands

Dont know that Jay is saying about 300D's being "common"
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ToMopar
Posted 2019-06-04 6:53 AM (#582914 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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I met Per last year,- he's a really nice guy, and he said he loves 58 models.
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2019-06-04 10:56 AM (#582921 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Very cool video. Thumbs up, for sure. I would have been interested in seeing some more details of the upgraded fuel injection that Per has installed in the car. He said it was not exactly the same as the original Bendix equipment (which didn't work very good anyway) but improved. I half expected for Jay and he to go put it on a dyno too to see what numbers he would get for output. I'd still like to know that.

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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-04 12:15 PM (#582926 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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yeah you can tell they are good friends, Jay didn't believe the mileage or the horsepower claim. I honestly don't doubt the HP claim.
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moparsteve
Posted 2019-06-04 2:00 PM (#582929 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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if 21 were built you can count on your finger how many are left... he updated the f.i., so not entirely orig. most of the units were not

liked by customers and for racing at Daytona and were swapped for dual quads
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-04 3:46 PM (#582930 - in reply to #582926)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-04 9:15 AM
yeah you can tell they are good friends, Jay didn't believe the mileage or the horsepower claim. I honestly don't doubt the HP claim.


Except that Per misspoke the factory power claim as being 280 and 290 instead of 380 and 390. If Jay believed the original numbers, then he would have a harder time believing the 400-425HP.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-04 6:45 PM (#582931 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Yeah Per was completely off on the HP claims but hey, I didn't see a lot 'cuts' or retakes...
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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-05 8:30 AM (#582951 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Cool car and it's great that Jay & Co. have so many good projects.

But...as we've discussed before, the fuel injection part becomes not-so-special once you make it a modern EFI system as they did. The dreaded 'C' word - computer, in this case - was used. That sorta negates the uniqueness of the fact that the 300D used the first electronic injection since it's been replaced by something that's as common as butter on toast.

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normsclassicradio
Posted 2019-06-05 4:39 PM (#582972 - in reply to #582951)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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GregCon - 2019-06-05 6:30 AM

Cool car and it's great that Jay & Co. have so many good projects.

But...as we've discussed before, the fuel injection part becomes not-so-special once you make it a modern EFI system as they did. The dreaded 'C' word - computer, in this case - was used. That sorta negates the uniqueness of the fact that the 300D used the first electronic injection since it's been replaced by something that's as common as butter on toast.



I wonder if the original controller could be reverse engineered and a new one using all modern components be constructed. Like all things electronics from that era, the designers were limited to the THEN state of the art in component quality. Modern parts are often more robust and temperature resistant.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-05 5:03 PM (#582974 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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But then it still wouldn't be original! Face it, the original was crap and was recalled. It wasn't even worthy to leave on the original cars. There are likely some fundamental issues with it. To make it work today, you would have to reverse engineer it, and then re-design it so it works. It still wouldn't be original. The original system is great for a museum; but if it were my car, I would have done it exactly like Per did so I could drive and enjoy it. Save the museum parts to put into a museum.
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2019-06-05 5:21 PM (#582975 - in reply to #582974)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Powerflite - 2019-06-05 3:03 PM

But then it still wouldn't be original! Face it, the original was crap and was recalled. It wasn't even worthy to leave on the original cars. There are likely some fundamental issues with it. To make it work today, you would have to reverse engineer it, and then re-design it so it works. It still wouldn't be original. The original system is great for a museum; but if it were my car, I would have done it exactly like Per did so I could drive and enjoy it. Save the museum parts to put into a museum.


One advantage to "analog" fuel injection: no computer.... just easily sourced electronic parts.. but you're right, modern EFI is better for reliability..
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57burb
Posted 2019-06-05 6:27 PM (#582983 - in reply to #582974)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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It's impossible to have a functional, original Bendix Electrojector - because they were non-functional when they were new! There is no way to get around the fact to make one work, you will have to eliminate all the junk that made the program an embarrassing debacle.

And that's what Per has done here. It is an original EFI car (rare!) using an original EFI intake (rare!) and original EFI throttle bodies (rare!). The fuel system, injectors, and controlling mechanism are "new" but they are hidden and they make the system functional. I don't see any other way to make a Bendix car work.

Sure would have been great if the Chryslers had used the "good" EFI logo though



(61789445_10212040335718427_1468294923018043392_sm.jpg)



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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-05 7:50 PM (#582987 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Well, there's no doubt the modern EFI is way better in terms of functionality. But, by converting the D to modern EFI, you lose the 'bragging rights' of it being an original EFI car. He used the original intake and TB's? Well....big deal. Those parts (especially the intake) are possibly the easiest parts to use.

It's an awesome car, as any nice 300D would be. It also cool that it was an original FI car. It's just not nearly as cool as if it had a working original system, even if the original system were modernized here and there with better components.
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2019-06-05 10:45 PM (#582992 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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I thought that was the way the fellow who had the only functional fuel injected 1958 De Soto got the Bendix system to work - by replacing all of the vintage electronic components in the controller box with modern more robust items?

I like what Per has done to the car. Putting an original fuel injected 300D back on the road in its original configuration is noteworthy, even if he had to use a modern style computer controller to make it work properly. Cars were meant to be enjoyed, and that one looks like it would be a lot of fun.I thought it was interesting to hear the vintage starter cranking over that old Hemi when Jay took it out for a test drive. It didn't seem to catch right away though which puzzled me as FI cars are usully good starters. Maybe a tweak on the old laptop is needed? 

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2019-06-06 1:33 AM (#582995 - in reply to #582992)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Nothing about this car is original. The paint is modern, the tires are radials, those emblems
are made of modern plastic. The air in the tires certainly isn't OEM. Why, it's nothing but a
modernized mess !

I'd sure like the chance to drive it.
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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-06 8:47 AM (#583008 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Yuk Yuk.

Actually if the emblems are plastic that's not so hot either.

On the DeSoto...I'm not sure what was done but from what I remember reading it was a far more faithful rendering of the original system. He used some more modern parts where needed but maintained the basic structure of the original system. I seem to recall some coils being wrapped in wax paper to get them to work more reliably or something like that. That's definitely 'old school' not modern.

But I agree with Doc. If we're gonna allow non-original air in the tires we might as well allow an LS1 with air bag suspension and a 'vette rear end. Indeed!



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60 Imp
Posted 2019-06-06 9:07 AM (#583011 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Tough crowd!

I recon Per done a good job, a really good job. Hell, it's just an old Chrysler right? How good do you want it? Definitely better now, 50 odd years after it was chucked away.

Maybe Per put a 5 second start delay into the program to mimic the original system?? (Just joking). The Guy is obviously a perfectionist (Per for short), and good on him for recreating this car.

As for the plastic emblems, sounds like Australian George Laurie made them. And Greg, LS1?? Nope, not cool.

I too would like to take it for a drive.

Steve.


Edited by 60 Imp 2019-06-06 9:10 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-06 9:09 AM (#583012 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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So if the system was replaced with a new system, it is no longer interesting to me. If it's new, they could have used a carbureted car,
its makes no difference. In this case they killed a piece of engineering history. I'm all for upgrades and improvements,
if the basic system remains unchanged.
I do not doubt that the OE system was troublesome BUT after all, they ok'ed it after rigorous testing (Chrysler was known for that).
So at least one or two systems must have been working troublefree. This proves a functional OE EFI IS possible and that makes me think
the basic system could be improved once the bugs are pinpointed.
There are lots of mechanical car-myths out there (because some people are not so bright and blame their incompetence on the manufacturer),
like the one that the Chrysler independent parking brake never worked, which is BS. So a more complicated thing,
like the EFI, is more easily screwed up.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-06 9:11 AM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-06 9:10 AM (#583013 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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yeah non original tires are an outrage!!!!
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60 Imp
Posted 2019-06-06 9:21 AM (#583017 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Hey Sid, with all respect, I don't think that 'they killed a piece of engineering history'. On the contrary, it was brought back from the dead. And rightly so.

This vid and the car also does another thing. It makes a whole lot of other people (other than us!) aware that Chrysler made a FI car back in the 50's.

That's pretty important too, if only to brag/boast to the Ferd/Chivvy crowd. Even if it was a dud at the time, it was still another Chrysler Corporation technological first.

Steve.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-06 9:46 AM (#583019 - in reply to #583017)
Subject: RE: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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60 Imp - 2019-06-06 9:21 AM

Hey Sid, with all respect, I don't think that 'they killed a piece of engineering history'. On the contrary, it was brought back from the dead.
Steve.


Okay, yes. It was brought back, but not the system. As I said they could have used a regular D with EFI badges glued to it. So it is nice they brought it back, like any FL car but not so nice they killed the OE EFI.

Have you received my e mail?

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-06 9:48 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-06 10:49 AM (#583023 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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He didn't kill it in any sense of the term. First of all, he didn't have the original system to begin with. He had to gather up parts as he could find them. Remember that EFI system for the DeSoto that came up for sale here in LA for $5500? I mentioned that to him and showed him where the ad was. He went and bought it so he could get the original throttle bodies that he needed. He never had the original electronics so he didn't kill them either. Everything he has done to the system can be converted back to the original *IF* you can find the rest of it and make it work.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-06 4:30 PM (#583032 - in reply to #583023)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Powerflite - 2019-06-06 10:49 AM

He didn't kill it in any sense of the term. First of all, he didn't have the original system to begin with. He had to gather up parts as he could find them. Remember that EFI system for the DeSoto that came up for sale here in LA for $5500? I mentioned that to him and showed him where the ad was. He went and bought it so he could get the original throttle bodies that he needed. He never had the original electronics so he didn't kill them either. Everything he has done to the system can be converted back to the original *IF* you can find the rest of it and make it work.


How do you know? New injectors in the OE intake, etc? I just hate faking things. Want to convert to FI, ok, just take an intake
that breathes better than the OE unit and do not PRETEND to be original.
The generator falls into that categorie too. What is the point to fake such things? One of the benefits of an alternator is that it weighs
less, so why take a heavy generator housing? It is not original anyway, period. So why? Aesthetics? Certainly not. It makes no sense.
Of course, to each his own and it is a nice car, I just don't get it.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-06 4:32 PM
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2019-06-06 5:36 PM (#583035 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Often it is about the aesthetics, hence wide whitewall radial tires. Better components, better brakes, better paint, etc. Many of Jay Leno's cars get Willwood brakes. Cars are made to drive! Drive and enjoy! My only personal issue is using same make engines in cars. Chevy in a Chevy, Ford in a Ford, Mopar in a Mopar... but thats just me..;)
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57burb
Posted 2019-06-07 1:21 AM (#583047 - in reply to #583032)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Constant temperature fluctuations, sustained high heat, and moisture make the engine compartment of a car THE most inappropriate environment for the wax paper insulated electronic parts of the 1950s. The Bendix EFI was a great design (the basic architecture is still in use today), but the electronic components of the time were hopelessly unsuitable for the job. Chrysler was embarrassed by the project, and the cars were quickly and quietly converted and forgotten. IMO it's crazy to expect anyone to spend six figures restoring a car using "correct" parts that would render it an undriveable, useless museum artifact.

Per did this car really right! I love that he maintained the manifold and throttle bodies and took care to make the injectors and fuel rail look like the old ones. I agree that I would probably have tried to keep the original generator, but the smooth and consistent alternator output is probably more suitable for the computer. The only thing that "I" would do if it were mine is to recreate all the crazy shielding! I'm not sure if the production cars had it, but all the promo photos show it and it's a pretty distinctive look for the Bendix cars. I think the car is just superb and getting a real Bendix car on the road with (most of) its original EFI is quite an accomplishment.



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58wedge
Posted 2019-06-07 3:11 AM (#583053 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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I m pretty amazed over all the crying ,,, done this ,and done that ,wrong here and there ,he saved and restored a car ,as ``he`` wanted it,, and if he wants the carbs on,, its an easy task ,they done that 61 years ago, ,can be done again, so those who screem the highest , send some pictures of what you acomplished, ,just my few cents , (( if im gonna be pissed on for this , dont care ,Im to old to care..))
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58wedge
Posted 2019-06-07 3:14 AM (#583054 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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i have the Desoto leftovers ,whats left of it ,from Per,,gonna do the same and make it look as autentic as possible, its challence just to get all the old s**t working and still look org
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-07 7:42 AM (#583057 - in reply to #583053)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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58wedge - 2019-06-07 3:11 AM I m pretty amazed over all the crying ,,, done this ,and done that ,wrong here and there ,he saved and restored a car ,as ``he`` wanted it,, and if he wants the carbs on,, its an easy task ,they done that 61 years ago, ,can be done again, so those who screem the highest , send some pictures of what you acomplished, ,just my few cents , (( if im gonna be pissed on for this , dont care ,Im to old to care..))

 

Per did a great job with that car... just the same two old complainers :)  Amazing restore, we all know it, Jay and Per know it also.

 

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56D500boy
Posted 2019-06-07 8:12 AM (#583060 - in reply to #583013)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-06 6:10 AM

yeah non original tires are an outrage!!!!


Especially when they aren't filled with period-correct air. Really? Come on. That is terrible!!

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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-07 8:35 AM (#583061 - in reply to #583057)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-07 7:42 AM

58wedge - 2019-06-07 3:11 AM I m pretty amazed over all the crying ,,, done this ,and done that ,wrong here and there ,he saved and restored a car ,as ``he`` wanted it,, and if he wants the carbs on,, its an easy task ,they done that 61 years ago, ,can be done again, so those who screem the highest , send some pictures of what you acomplished, ,just my few cents , (( if im gonna be pissed on for this , dont care ,Im to old to care..))

 

Per did a great job with that car... just the same two old complainers :)  Amazing restore, we all know it, Jay and Per know it also.

 




Same old non-understander. Obviously, some people here have a problem to read. I posted clearly I'm all for upgrades (I'm runnig Wilwood discs on
all four corners for longer than most people here own their cars, all reversible) It is just the faking of components and possible damage to
unique OE parts that I do not like. Why put an alternator into a generator? Again, I hate faking and pretending.
This is just for the car-show type of old car owners.
I love driving, the performance and looks of these cars and I'm not the car-show type of person who pretends to run OE components. Got it?

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-07 8:37 AM
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1959Dodge
Posted 2019-06-07 10:19 AM (#583063 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Didn't anybody notice something "strange" how Jay started the car?

Gary
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-07 10:34 AM (#583064 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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So your for upgrades! great then stop bitching

what don't you understand about "the parts don't exist"? So he either fills in the blanks or the car doesn't run with FI parts.

He wanted to restore the FI car with as much original parts as he could... Its not fake or pretending, the original parts DIDNT WORK and DONT EXIST.

If Chrysler recalled the car that quickly and stopped production that fast obviously they didn't test the darn thing. Go talk to Bert Bowencamp, Chrysler was run ragged in 1957, since the 57s were the 58 models... they bumped up production one full year with everything new, they were screwed, they shut down the line for a month it was that bad. So no I doubt the system ever truly worked.

Harming an intake manifold? Really? Instead it should sit on a shelf for decades collecting dust because you don't want it working on a car?

Of course you complainers will always complain but that car is certainly not fake or pretending, its the real deal, restored as much as could be to be a true FI car.

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56D500boy
Posted 2019-06-07 1:04 PM (#583067 - in reply to #583063)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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1959Dodge - 2019-06-07 7:19 AM

Didn't anybody notice something "strange" how Jay started the car?

Gary


No. I've re-watched the starting 3 times now and the only thing that struck me was how slow it was cranking on the starter.

What did you see?

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57burb
Posted 2019-06-07 1:30 PM (#583068 - in reply to #583067)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Imperial, Chrysler, and Desotos engage the starter by pushing the N button. You still have to turn the key to the Run position of the switch. The Plymouths and Dodges engage the starter by turning the key. Subtle difference.

There was some editing taking place in the video at that point, and they may have filmed Jay turning the key but not pushing the shifter.


Edited by 57burb 2019-06-07 1:31 PM




(1958%20Imperial%20Manual-04.jpg)



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57burb
Posted 2019-06-07 4:00 PM (#583076 - in reply to #583068)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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How funny, my youtube feed had this recommended video, so I let it play. And wouldn't ya know, they discuss the Chrysler starting procedure. And this vid was just published yesterday!

https://youtu.be/PsvU-8Hzu5I?t=536

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mstrug
Posted 2019-06-07 5:53 PM (#583079 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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I want to build an electrojector system too. Those intakes are $5000 or so. I am looking for a 2X2 intake for a 392, 350/361, or Desoto hemi. The 2 barrel throttle bodies are out there, just have to find a matching set. I like the chromed fancy trim/covers made for the brochures. I hear Bosch bought the designs in the '60's. I believe a mega squirt harness/box/program can be adapted to two 2 barrel throttle bodies. Those emblems would be fantastic to reproduce; The script part was on ebay for a while for over a grand. I wonder how long, wide and thick the script and gold 'X' emblem parts are.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-06-07 6:44 PM (#583082 - in reply to #583064)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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mikes2nd - 2019-06-07 10:34 AM

So your for upgrades! great then stop bitching

what don't you understand about "the parts don't exist"? So he either fills in the blanks or the car doesn't run with FI parts.

He wanted to restore the FI car with as much original parts as he could... Its not fake or pretending, the original parts DIDNT WORK and DONT EXIST.

Of course you complainers will always complain but that car is certainly not fake or pretending, its the real deal, restored as much as could be to be a true FI car.




Nobody is "bitching", "wining", or "complainig". I just stated my opinion. Again, it just makes no sense, if the actual system is new,
not to use a new better breathing intake manifold as well, except he wants to PRETEND the OE system is there and working.
It is called logical thinking. Using only the OE intake and throttle body is NOT "restoring" the system. Is that hard to understand?
I know you are a progressive liberal, so you don't allow any opinions except yours and you pretend things that are not there.
And as all liberals, you have a problem with cognitive functions and a hidden alternator in a generator housing is not faking or
pretending for you and that is also the reason that you believe Chrysler sold cars that "never worked" to customers

Edited by 1960fury 2019-06-07 6:55 PM
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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-07 7:20 PM (#583083 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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"I do not doubt that the OE system was troublesome BUT after all, they ok'ed it after rigorous testing (Chrysler was known for that).
So at least one or two systems must have been working troublefree. This proves a functional OE EFI IS possible and that makes me think
the basic system could be improved once the bugs are pinpointed. "

Precisely. At least one other person gets it! There's no way Chrysler woulda released those cars if the system didn't start and run well. My guess is the system simply wasn't reliable and had issues related to temperature extremes, etc. Those issues could be addressed given today's advances without tossing it all out and using a modern EFI system.

I'll say it again...is the car awesome? Sure. Would it be a quantum jump in awesomeness if it ran the original fuel injection system? Of course. As it sits, the car is only nominally more interesting than ANY 300D that you converted to EFI.




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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-07 7:32 PM (#583084 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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yes your whining, bitching and attacking the guy... oh he's fake!!, he pretending!! also you ignore the fact that the parts DON'T EXIST...

OH my god he's pretending its a generator... he never said it was the OE system(he said it was like the original system if you upgraded it with a modern system), so when you call him a liar/fake/pretend, that's an attack. who gives a sh*t about a generator? really a generator? hah

yes the oe system didn't work and never really did... its why the 21 cars were quickly recalled and ill bet they were at the dealer broke anyways... and replaced the non functional FI system with carbs
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-07 7:40 PM (#583085 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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hah you guys think these cars got rigorous testing, you have no clue. Chrysler was flying by the seat of their pants in 57... the cars leaked like a sieve... zero rust proofing..

Ill guarantee that Bosch and Chrysler were like roll the dice with the FI and failed...

go do your own research.

They said get the line rolling, f testing the 57's, well fix em after the sale at the dealer and along the line. they would shut the line down to fix things, the dealers were losing their minds due to the issues.
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57burb
Posted 2019-06-07 9:21 PM (#583088 - in reply to #583085)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Here are some anecdotes that show the EFI cars ran terribly the day they were built.

Burton Bouwkamp on the 300D's fuel injection
We built about 20 Chrysler 300s with the Bendix Fuel Injection System and sold one to Carl Kiekhaefer, who picked it up at the Jefferson Plant and drove it back to Fon du Lac, Wisconsin. It was a cold winter day when he picked it up.

The next day, Carl called and said he didn’t want the car because he only got about 10 MPG, so I had to send Gene Carr to Wisconsin to retrieve the car. No money changed hands because Carl hadn’t paid for it yet. (We had a similar experience with him on a Ghia Imperial Limousine. Carl did not know that the front seat in the Limo was not adjustable, and after he got to Wisconsin he told us to pick it up because it did not have enough driver legroom).

I got to know Carl very well because Bob Rodger had designated me as his technical contact at the Chrysler Division. After retiring, I bought and read the book Too Much Kiekhaefer; unfortunately, there is only one chapter about car racing but the book does catch the flavor of his personality. He was a talented and capable tyrant! I remember trading CK stories with NASCAR stars Buck Baker, Tim Flock, and Fonty Flock. They drove for CK and saw him in the same light. He was “my most unforgettable person.”

We sold another Chrysler 300 with fuel injection to Larry Elgart (Les Elgart’s brother). They both were bandleaders, but Les was the better known (contemporaries with Les Brown, Benny Goodman et al). Larry was so dissatisfied with the way that the engine ran that he told us that he was going to drive the car right through the showroom window of the Chrysler Manhattan Company in New York — that is, if he could get it running well enough and get enough speed to do it.

At owner request, we converted these fuel injected cars to carburetors, and refunded the premium they paid for fuel injection.
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57burb
Posted 2019-06-07 9:25 PM (#583090 - in reply to #583084)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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Another anecdote indicating the EFI cars were among the first 1958 cars produced by each marque. Just thought it was interesting.

A prominent Chrysler historian wrote, “I was surprised to find something like 15 Plymouths in the first 2,000 built with fuel injection. Not only that, they were built and shipped without a lot of delay, so they were running. All were Furys except one Belvedere two-door hardtop. Two of the first ten or so Dodges were fuel injected also, along with the first two or three DeSotos [and later Chrysler 300Ds]."
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-07 9:30 PM (#583091 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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they wont believe Burts own words...i know what he said
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GregCon
Posted 2019-06-07 10:08 PM (#583094 - in reply to #583091)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage



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That's the problem with the world now...everyone gets their feelings hurt...and everyone else enables it.

No one is attacking the car or it's human companion. Note how I'm not using the term 'owner' as that word has clearly racial implications. We're just making note of the fact that the car is not 'really' 1958 fuel injected.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're gonna assign status to it for being an original fuel injected car, then it should be an original fuel injected car. Not a car that used to have fuel injection but now has the same injection system as a 2005 Volkswagen.

Let's look at a 1958 fuelie Corvette. If you showed up at Bloomington with one that was all original except you had converted it to a 2005 Volkswagen EFI system, every judge and every Corvette dude in the room would barf all over it.

Carl K owned the car one day and returned it? Sounds to me like 'executive privilege'. The average person, a car guy no less, would have simply taken the car to a dealer and asked them to fix it. Who really returns a car after one day? Someone who didn't really want it in the first place.

It's non-sensical to state that Chrysler did minimal R&D before releasing the cars to the public. The time and effort it took to develop those parts would have been significant. No one half-asses that sort of thing. More likely, they realized there was a limited market and the technical challenges were too great for the time to justify continued work. They also dropped the turbine car program - and it was hardly half-assed either. Plus, let's not forget Chrysler was in a slump by mid 1958 and I'm sure the climate within the company didn't support money being tossed at a complex issue that would result in 40 cars a year being sold. It was easier to walk away from it all.


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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-08 12:25 AM (#583099 - in reply to #582859)
Subject: Re: 1958 Chrysler 300-D Fuelie on Jay Leno's Garage


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Carl K was executive privileged... its why he got one and it didn't work so he promptly got rid of it because he could and he probably had many with the carbs

Yes your saying Per is a fake, a fraudster(60 fury has "edited" all his posts hmm?)... That car did roll off the line(I think this was a special line) but a line none the less as a FI car... SO ITS A FI car!

No its not non-sensical... Are you saying Burt is a liar now? THE GUY WAS THERE for f sake... In 57-58 things were not vetted, they didnt have time, they wanted a FI car, they failed utterly.

Your own sentence agrees with me(technical challenges were too great for the time to justify continued work)… EXACTLY it wasn't vetted and wasn't worth it trying to get it working, they rolled the dice and let her rip and failed. If the system was vetted like you claim you just kicked your own arse? so which is it? Not vetted or they didn't spend the time/energy to get it working? ok

Yes Chrysler 1958 FI cars were a failure, Per made his a success and one that could actually run and drive with upgraded parts that were the problem/forever missing. He isn't claiming its 100% OE(regardless if you accuse him of saying it was), never did, whos cars on the road are "real" then, exactly what it was rolling off the line? Ill guarantee there isn't one "real" FWL car on the road then...

the 58 Fuelie corvette worked and people know they exist because GM didnt squash them... Chrysler squashed the FI program because it didn't work, with modern technology! it can be upgraded to work and is an interesting piece of history back on the road.

The Turbine car was probably vetted, because the system actually worked... I like argueing as much as the next guy, but you guys are being twits claiming "OHHHHH ITS NOT A REAL FI CAR!"... stop it, its insulting all our intelligence and just making yourselfs look stupid. Hate on upgrades/mods whatever, but this was imho a great upgrade in restoring a true FI car as much as it could be to get it back on the road with many of the original FI parts.
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