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Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-10 3:20 PM (#588663)
Subject: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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Now that my 57 Chrysler Windsor A-466 cast iron Torqueflite has been disassembled and cleaned, the bad news is rolling in. Bottomline: If I want to continue with this Torqueflite into 56 Dodge game, I need to source some parts.

First in: Needs both bands (not a real shock) 1636 362 Kick down and 1636 367 Low and Reverse

Next up: Needs at least a front pump - housing and outer rotor are worn badly (too badly to make much pressure)

The assembly is comprised of a housing and inner and outer rotors (it's a gear pump). The original PN for the housing and the two rotors was 1879 394. Apparently that eventually superceded to 2084 319 (image of said assembly below)

The inner and outer rotors were apparently at one time available separately as 1636 394 inner and 1633 658 outer.

There will probably be more so I guess I have to question throwing good money after bad at some point (soon)





Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-10 3:24 PM




(A-466TorqueFliteExplodedPartsDiagram.jpg)



(FrontPumpA466ShowingHousingAndInnerAndOuterRotors.jpg)



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Attachments A-466TorqueFliteExplodedPartsDiagram.jpg (162KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments FrontPumpA466ShowingHousingAndInnerAndOuterRotors.jpg (158KB - 1 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-11 2:00 AM (#588673 - in reply to #588663)
Subject: RE: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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In searching for some of the Torqueflite parts that I need, I came across this Swedish website/page with some interesting info:

http://www.mrmechanic.se/index.php?transmission=2

The take away for me was there were two different front pump rotor/gear sets, an earlier 56-57 low volume set and a 58-61 high volume set. My trans is a 57 but I guess that the 58-61 set was improved for a reason.

In going through the 55-58 Mopar parts catalogue, I think that the pump housing stayed the same for 56-57 and 58 but the gear sets changed.

56-57 gear set is the 1636 394 inner and 1633 658 outer

I think that the 58-61 gear set was 1736 162 inner and 1736 163 outer.

I am guessing that the two sets can not be mixed together and work well.

So far I have found a 1636 394 inner rotor and traces of a 1736 163 outer. I need to get a matching pair.

See below:





(57-58TorqueFlite3spdOilPumpPNs.jpg)



(1636394InnerPumpGear.jpg)



(1736163FrontPumpOuterRotor.jpg)



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Attachments 57-58TorqueFlite3spdOilPumpPNs.jpg (206KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 1636394InnerPumpGear.jpg (198KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments 1736163FrontPumpOuterRotor.jpg (150KB - 1 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2019-10-11 2:34 AM (#588675 - in reply to #588663)
Subject: Re: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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Dave, as for the overhaul kit and the bands;

http://nwtparts.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=130
https://www.fatsco.net/ci-torqueflite.html

As for the front pump - it's more or less considered unobtainium - your option might be to buy an acceptable used pump.
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-11 12:28 PM (#588687 - in reply to #588675)
Subject: Re: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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wizard - 2019-10-10 11:34 PM

Dave, as for the overhaul kit and the bands.
As for the front pump - it's more or less considered unobtainium - your option might be to buy an acceptable used pump.


Thanks for the links Sven. I have a Master Overhaul kit so that box is ticked. I had forgotten about Fatsco so thanks for that.

I am lining up a low volume gear set but still need to find a new pump housing.





(1636394and1633658InnerAndOuterPumpRotorPair.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1636394and1633658InnerAndOuterPumpRotorPair.jpg (88KB - 1 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-11 4:43 PM (#588703 - in reply to #588673)
Subject: RE: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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56D500boy - 2019-10-10 11:00 PM
In going through the 55-58 Mopar parts catalogue, I think that the pump housing stayed the same for 56-57 and 58 but the gear sets changed.

56-57 gear set is the 1636 394 inner and 1633 658 outer
I think that the 58-61 gear set was 1736 162 inner and 1736 163 outer.

I am guessing that the two sets can not be mixed together and work well.


After talking to a couple of places including Fatsco, I now believe (rightly or wrongly) that the 56-57 pump housing is different than the 58-61 pump housing. The two gear sets, the "16" set and the "17" are likely thinner and thicker respectively (to provide the lower and higher flows, respectively) and there for the depth of the pocket where they sit in the front of the pump is shallower and deeper, respectively. I am not sure if this manifests out into the casing or not. As in is it possible to put a 58-61 pump housing in a 56-57 casing? I DO NOT KNOW

I might be better off finding another cast iron A-466.



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-11 7:08 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-15 9:37 PM (#588875 - in reply to #588703)
Subject: RE: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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Hmmm....(head scratch). I retrieved the 57 Windsor TF front pump body (and rotors) to see how badly it is worn. (It is)

The outer rotor and the housing have worn each other more than a little. Both are scored (photos below) and there is a significant (out of spec?) gap between the outer rotor and the housing (which I was told).

The inner rotor looks pretty good (to me).

Both the inner and outer rotors (and therefore the pump housing cavity depth) are about 0.68" thick/deep. I can't imagine how much thicker the high flow rotors are. (Any body know the thickness?)

Some photos from today:





(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_BackSide.jpg)



(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_ShowingInnerAndOuterRotorsAndSpaceBetweenOuterAndTheHousing.jpg)



(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_WithInnerAndOuterRotorsRemoved.jpg)



(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_ShowingWearInPumpBody.jpg)



(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_ShowingWearOnOutsideEdgeOfOuterRotor.jpg)



(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_ShowingThicknessOfInnerRotor.jpg)



(DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_ShowingThicknessOfOuterRotor.jpg)



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Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_BackSide.jpg (156KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_ShowingInnerAndOuterRotorsAndSpaceBetweenOuterAndTheHousing.jpg (150KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_WithInnerAndOuterRotorsRemoved.jpg (168KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_ShowingWearInPumpBody.jpg (146KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_FrontSide_ShowingWearOnOutsideEdgeOfOuterRotor.jpg (86KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_ShowingThicknessOfInnerRotor.jpg (121KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs57WindsorCastIronTF_FrontPump_ShowingThicknessOfOuterRotor.jpg (143KB - 0 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-17 3:25 PM (#588956 - in reply to #588875)
Subject: RE: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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Went down to Point Roberts WA this AM to pick up some parts for the 57 Windsor TF. Good news/bad news.

Good news: I now have new old stock (NOS) inner and outer rotors for what must be the original "low flow" housing that came with my 57 TF.

Bad news: I still don't have a new (or acceptable used) pump housing for either these low flow gears (or the high flow gears).

At least it could be progress.

Those new NOS rotors have a little shelf rust so they are very very tight. VERY.

Some photos:





(NOS1633658OuterAnd1636394InnerAsReceived.jpg)



(NOS1633658OuterAsReceived.jpg)



(NOS1636394InnerAsReceived.jpg)



(NOS1633658OuterAnd1636394InnerAsReceived_MeshedTogether.jpg)



(NOS1633658OuterAnd1636394InnerAsReceived_MeshedTogether_Thickness.jpg)



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Attachments NOS1633658OuterAnd1636394InnerAsReceived.jpg (137KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments NOS1633658OuterAsReceived.jpg (156KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments NOS1636394InnerAsReceived.jpg (140KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments NOS1633658OuterAnd1636394InnerAsReceived_MeshedTogether.jpg (156KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments NOS1633658OuterAnd1636394InnerAsReceived_MeshedTogether_Thickness.jpg (142KB - 0 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-19 2:20 PM (#589004 - in reply to #588956)
Subject: RE: Wanted: 57-61 A-466 Torqueflite Parts



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Posts: 5199
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
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So close but yet so far.

I have now acquired two sets of the OE 56 (late)/57 Torqueflite "low flow" front pump rotors, 1636 394 and 16533 658. The first set was from two separate eBay sources, the second set I got locally from my NOS parts guy. They are still in their Yellow/Black/Red Mopar boxes. Interestingly, the outer rotor 1633 658 box was hand labeled in pencil but it also had the Chrysler part ticket stapled to the box. On the ticket, it is marked "Powerflite Rear Pump Gear" 55-58 P D So and 55-56 C (as in Chrysler) I guess. I checked my parts pdf and that is not true. It is only a Torqueflite front pump outer rotor.

I picked up the new NOS set yesterday AM. While I mentioned that there was a supersede for the thicker "high flow" inner rotor, the 1736 162, from the 162 to 1949 600 (see below). I left him (he got another parts request phone call) and this AM I got an email saying that he had 1949 600 "It's just like that other inner rotor I sold you only quite a bit thicker" (he had a couple other 1636 394s to compare to). *DING*!! So I am jumping on that. I know where I can get a "high flow" pump body. With that in hand I only need the 1736 163 outer.

Regardless, each front pump has three components. In both cases, "low flow" and "high flow", I have 2 out of the three, but not three.

So close but yet so far.

Psst...Buddy, got any spare 1736 163s?



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-19 2:27 PM




(FrontPumpA466PartNumbersThatGoWithTheDiagram.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments FrontPumpA466PartNumbersThatGoWithTheDiagram.jpg (86KB - 0 downloads)
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