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'60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article
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slimwhitman
Posted 2019-12-23 12:23 PM (#591933)
Subject: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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I stumbled onto this old magazine and thought many of you would enjoy reading this 1981 article.

Note that they suggest this important car is worth about $7,050. What would it be worth today?

Edited by slimwhitman 2019-12-23 12:35 PM




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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-23 12:48 PM (#591935 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Here's my page for it.

http://www.300f.com/8403110398.htm

And the page for the 4-speed.

http://www.300f.com/4speed.htm
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57chizler
Posted 2019-12-23 1:36 PM (#591937 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Text under the transmission pic says it's a "fully synchro" box. I'm thinking the Pont-à-Mousson didn't have synchro first gear?
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imopar380
Posted 2019-12-23 1:53 PM (#591938 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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slimwhitman - 2019-12-23 9:23 AM

I stumbled onto this old magazine and thought many of you would enjoy reading this 1981 article.

Note that they suggest this important car is worth about $7,050. What would it be worth today?



It sold for about $235,000 several years ago if I remember correctly.
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GregCon
Posted 2019-12-23 1:59 PM (#591940 - in reply to #591938)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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I actually recall that article from when it came out...thanks. FWIW, Pont-a-Mousson is a town in France known for gearboxes of all sorts.

Edited by GregCon 2019-12-23 2:00 PM
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-23 3:45 PM (#591943 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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I believe they are actually full synchromesh including 1st gear.

Here's an interesting ad I found while researching 300Fs in newspaper archives. Bob McAtee bought the 300F from Mr. Ziegler after Daytona and kept it until he passed away in 2007. Seems nobody knew he tried to sell it through his dealership in 1964.





(110398_ad_t.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-23 3:48 PM (#591946 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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And here is another ad I found from December of 1960 of another 4-speed car. We're not sure which car this is.





(Chicago_Tribune_Wed__Dec_7__1960_clipping_t.jpg)



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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-12-23 6:46 PM (#591954 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Yes, the P-a-M is "full synchro" including first gear.
NICE FIND on the '64 ad for sale! News to me too.
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b5rt
Posted 2019-12-24 10:21 AM (#591969 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Bob McAtee was my ex-father-in-law and I had the opportunity to wipe the car down many times. I know Wayne came to the house once in the late 80's or early 90's. I never heard the car run as he made a big deal out of firing up some of the cars in his collection, mostly because the gas had gone bad and he didn't want to risk damage or create anymore work. He was born in 1922 so keeping more than a dozen cars going wasn't easy for him anymore.

He had the Dodge dealership in the early 60's for only a few years and ended up selling it after becoming deeply in debt. He was proud to say he paid that debt off and never filed bankruptcy. We never heard it referred to as McAtee-Durbin, only Courtesy Dodge. I have several advertising items from that time period.

I remember a collector from Washington/Hawaii coming to town around 1989 to check out the 300F and he made Bob a substantial offer for the F that he didn't take. No point in selling off the flagship at that time.

Bob mentioned many times that he knew Ziegler had the car and purchased it directly from him. Greg Ziegler wanted to return to Daytona and needed to sell the F so he could purchase a G and return for 1961 Speedweeks. That 61 G was "never as fast as the F". The chrome accessories were added by Bob. He maintained that all the parts were available chromed through Chrysler accessories parts.

After Bob passed, Eveline started the process of selling off the cars at which point I was no longer in the family. She took out ads and eventually sold all but a couple of the cars. She held a couple of sales and sold most of his parts collection, I ended up purchasing the remainder and have sold most of it through ebay. I asked her where the F went and she said "A rich Italian restaurant owner in Chicago bought it". The pictures above were during that period. It finally sold during the auction link and I have no idea where it ended up.

Cars in his collection changed over the years. The ones I remember are:

1916 Dodge tourer (traded to Dodge dealer in Bloomington)
1931 Plymouth roadster (traded to dealer in Lincoln)
1947 Plymouth sedan blue (sold locally)
1951 New Yorker sedan gray
1955 C300 red. (museum in Maine)
1955 C300 white
1957 300C white
1960 300F 4 speed, Daytona record setter from Greg Ziegler
1961 300G red (sold to collector in CO)
1961 300G convertible black (sold to collector in CO)
1962 Plymouth Fury 4 door (sold locally)
1965 300 convertible (traded to dealer in Lincoln)
1965 New Yorker sedan white (sold locally)
1966 New Yorker sedan yellow (sold locally)
1967 Satellite (sold locally)
1970 300 convertible green (purchased by me, sold to collector in KS)
1970 AAR 'cuda Vitamin C (sold locally)
1970 Challenger R/T SE red (sold and exported to Europe)
1970 Super Bee plum crazy purple (sold locally)
1976 Duster silver (sold locally)
1978 Dodge 1 ton dually red/white (sold locally)
1981 Imperial blue (sold locally)

Eveline passed a couple of years ago. Bob wasn't always the easiest person to get along with, but they made a great team together.

Edited by b5rt 2019-12-24 10:55 AM
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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-12-24 10:54 AM (#591970 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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The eventual sale of the Ziegler /McAtee 300F Gran Turismo from the estate, by Mrs. Mac was to Larry Tarantolo who had been talking to Bob for many years and then to Eveline who was very reluctant to come down from that high price that had been offered decades(?) earlier but she finally did. I visited Tarantolo as his home was within 20 minutes of one of my sons outside Chicago. Larry was a collector /flipper of prominent historical cars, mostly custom /hot rod types. For example he had the "Hot Rod Lincoln" Model A Ford that we remember from the song. The car was auctioned multiple times not meeting reserve. Even survive the huge auction tent collapse in Scottsdale with but a scratch. Eventually it did sell but assuming his cost was as stated, after very extensive detailing and after entry fees and transports, he likely lost money on the car. One of the photos from the 2013 Gooding auction offering attached.



(1960_Chrysler_300_F_56.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2019-12-24 2:53 PM (#591976 - in reply to #591970)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Wayne: From an old thread:

Phil_the_frenchie - 2006-07-25 1:57 AM
This pic came from my web site http://www.ch300imp.com/300f_4sp_us.htm !!!
The original pics were sent to me by Wayne Graefen which is an owner of a 300F 4 speeds..




REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11137

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56D500boy
Posted 2019-12-24 3:15 PM (#591980 - in reply to #591976)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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I guess not all Facel Vegas came with the Pont-a-Moussan four speed. This 58 Elegance four door had a TorqueFlite:



REFERENCE: https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/facel-vega/excellence/1958/3089...

But this 59 Elegance did:





REFERENCE: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/facel-vega/excell...

As did this 62:





REFERENCE: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/facel-vega/facel-ii/2332...



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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-12-24 7:52 PM (#591989 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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The vast majority of Facels were automatics because they were European luxury cars. All the other less expensive Euro cars had manual transmissions. Facel buyers desired the Chrysler Torqueflite!!!
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Skelly1958
Posted 2019-12-25 3:53 PM (#592011 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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Merry Christmas to all!

I really enjoyed seeing this article - again.

I was a car nut at a young age and My Dad had a subscription to Car Exchange. I can still remember the day this issue arrived at our house. Like most ten year old kids with a love of cars in the early '80s, I couldn't wait for Friday nights at 7:00 to watch the Dukes and the General Lee and was thrilled to see an article in Car Exchange about the "star" of the show. But I also remember reading about and admiring that black '60 300. Muscle cars were cool but I always preferred the styles of the late 50s and early 60s - cars, music, and clean-cut appearances - even back then.

Car Exchange was a good magazine (I believe they were associated with Old Cars Weekly) and, in addition to the articles, had an extensive classified ad section. I remember another issue that had a two-page photo of a Buckskin Beige '58 Fury. I thought that was one of the coolest cars I'd ever seen and, I'm pretty sure, that issue was from before a certain movie came out in 1983 to start a worldwide obsession with '58 Plymouths. I finally was able to get one three years ago.

Car Exchange only made it until about 1985 when, I believe, it was sold and combined with, I think, Classic Sixties to become Car Review. It was never the same as the focus shifted more to mid/late 60's and early 70's cars before it was renamed again to Muscle Car Review. That's about the time we quit getting it.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough on my experiences with Car Exchange magazine. Thanks for bringing back an old memory!
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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 7:57 AM (#592023 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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I recall seeing an article in the Chrysler 300 Club Int'l Inc. newsletter about Bob McAtee taking the 300F Gran Turismo out to a 300 club meet in Reno. There was a picture of him in it with Richard and Karen Carpenter standing beside the car. I believe this was in 1977.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 11:55 AM (#592031 - in reply to #591969)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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b5rt - 2019-12-24 7:21 AM

Bob McAtee was my ex-father-in-law and I had the opportunity to wipe the car down many times. I know Wayne came to the house once in the late 80's or early 90's. I never heard the car run as he made a big deal out of firing up some of the cars in his collection, mostly because the gas had gone bad and he didn't want to risk damage or create anymore work. He was born in 1922 so keeping more than a dozen cars going wasn't easy for him anymore.

He had the Dodge dealership in the early 60's for only a few years and ended up selling it after becoming deeply in debt. He was proud to say he paid that debt off and never filed bankruptcy. We never heard it referred to as McAtee-Durbin, only Courtesy Dodge. I have several advertising items from that time period.



I was certainly surprised to see the ad. It ran for a week. I didn't look for any other ads from the dealership. If you go to newspapers.com you can search the archives. doing a quick search it looks like the dealership advertised from June of 1963 through May of 1964. Maybe he was trying to sell off the car to try and save the dealership.

Nick
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 2:12 PM (#592036 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Here's another vintage ad for a 4-speed car but we don't know which car it is other than it's not the Ziegler/McAtee car.





(Chicago_Tribune_Wed__Dec_7__1960_clipping_t.jpg)



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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:20 PM (#592041 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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I found the publication with Mr. McAtee and the Carpenters. From the Chrysler 300 Club Inc. newsletter in 1978.
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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:23 PM (#592042 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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Trying to figure out how to post the photo
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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:27 PM (#592043 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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Photo
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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:28 PM (#592044 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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Again
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 4:29 PM (#592045 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Make sure your images aren't too big.
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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:33 PM (#592046 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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trying again



(McAtee 300F.jpg)



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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:36 PM (#592047 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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Thanks Nick, perhaps you can rotate/enlarge it? Posting a pic is stretching my ability to the max!
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 4:41 PM (#592048 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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It's a bit small. Go to www.getpaint.net for a great easy to use photo editor.


If you want to send me the larger version, I can post it. nick@300f.com



Edited by NicksGarage 2019-12-26 4:47 PM




(Untitled.jpg)



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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:43 PM (#592049 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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I belonged to the 'eastern' Chrysler 300 Club from 1976 until about 2006 and attended many meets from the late 70s thru the mid 80s as well as hosting the Fall 1981 meet in Ohio. I don't recall Mr. McAtee being active in the 'eastern' club although I was aware that he owned the Zeigler 300F. Could his ex son-in-law provide any insight into Mr. McAtee's long ownership of the F, and perhaps his trip to Reno with it, since it appears it was driven less than 200 miles over decades of ownership?

Thanks!
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 4:45 PM (#592050 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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I know a lot of "low mileage" cars had their speedometer cables disconnected to keep the miles down. This was common when classic car insurance or historical license plate driving restrictions were in place. Not saying that's the case here.
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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-26 4:50 PM (#592051 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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Larger photo



(McAtee 300F.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 5:07 PM (#592053 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Rotated...



(Untitled.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2019-12-26 5:17 PM (#592054 - in reply to #592051)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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58coronet - 2019-12-26 1:50 PM
Larger photo


Even bigger and turned.





(TheCarpentersAndBobA.jpg)



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b5rt
Posted 2019-12-26 5:58 PM (#592055 - in reply to #592054)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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I haven't seen that picture before. He had a modest trophy case with a black and white picture of the three of them when he was presented the trophy at the banquet. The trophy was pretty impressive, a decent sized silver cup on a marble and wooden base. I've inquired about the trophy and it's gone, possibly it was included with the car at the time of sale.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-12-26 6:38 PM (#592059 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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The speedometer when Larry Tarantolo had the car and I visited.   Actual miles.  Never disconnected.  After that the car started the auctions. 





(CA0810-96562_5.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-26 6:40 PM (#592060 - in reply to #591969)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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b5rt - 2019-12-24 7:21 AM

We never heard it referred to as McAtee-Durbin, only Courtesy Dodge. I have several advertising items from that time period.


I did a little more searching and it looks like Courtesy Dodge came about in 1965 and lasted until 1968. My subscription is expired so I can't see the full pages. There is some sort of notice on June 18, 1965 in The Pantagraph about the name change and mentions McAtee. Then there is some sort of legal notice in 1974. Maybe you can get a trial subscription there to get the full clippings.

Nick.
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b5rt
Posted 2019-12-26 7:52 PM (#592064 - in reply to #592049)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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58coronet - 2019-12-26 3:43 PM

I belonged to the 'eastern' Chrysler 300 Club from 1976 until about 2006 and attended many meets from the late 70s thru the mid 80s as well as hosting the Fall 1981 meet in Ohio. I don't recall Mr. McAtee being active in the 'eastern' club although I was aware that he owned the Zeigler 300F. Could his ex son-in-law provide any insight into Mr. McAtee's long ownership of the F, and perhaps his trip to Reno with it, since it appears it was driven less than 200 miles over decades of ownership?

Thanks!


He wasn't active in the 'easter' club but was with the 'western'. One being 300 Inc. if I recall. Eveline was secretary for a while in it. I remember Ray Dohrn (sp?), Tom Turner, Lee Petty were names he'd mention.
He had issues with one or two members of the 'eastern' club. No one's going to say Bob was the easiest person to get along with.

Bob had suffered a couple of severe injuries in his life, one where he was crushed between a truck and a load, which never healed 100%. He said it was around 1939-40. When WW2 came around, he and 3 friends went to enlist. He was rejected because of this injury which left a sort of herniated area in his abdomen. He said none of his friends made it back and it still upset him years later.

Sometime in the 1960's he suffered a badly broken leg. Because of this he had a hard time operating a clutch. In fact it was so hard for him that I would drive a couple cars for him.

A couple other cars he had that I'd forgotten:
1950 Plymouth gray sedan
1957 Adventurer white w/gold sweep. Restoration had been started, not sure where it went.
Also, the 65 and 66 New Yorkers were both 4 door hardtops, not sedans.
He also stored a 1966 Hemi Charger for a local woman friend. There's a long story about it but she ended not having to pay a dime for him to store it for 30 years. Friends aren't always who you think they are.

It turns out I got the trophies mixed up. The tall trophy cup was for a different meet. The Reno Meet cup still exists. I've got a picture of it I'll try to post.




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58coronet
Posted 2019-12-27 6:34 AM (#592073 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: Re: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article


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B5RT
Thank you so much for sharing a bit of Mr McAtee’s life. Interesting that he was a collector at a relatively young age and purchased such an incredible and historically significant car, only to seldom if ever drive it.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2019-12-27 9:57 AM (#592082 - in reply to #591933)
Subject: RE: '60 300F Pont-a-Moussan Ziegler-McAtee '81 Article



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Here is the Harrah's bowl and the trophy from Daytona. The article is from the Elgin Area Historical Society newsletter "The Crackerbarrel".



Edited by NicksGarage 2019-12-27 10:06 AM




(IMG_8885t.jpg)



(110398_trophy.jpg)



(cracker_barrel_may_2014.jpg)



(cracker_barrel_may_2014a.jpg)



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Attachments 110398_trophy.jpg (61KB - 6 downloads)
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Attachments cracker_barrel_may_2014a.jpg (122KB - 6 downloads)
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