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Torsion bar cushion rubbers
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ram300
Posted 2020-01-30 4:05 PM (#593622)
Subject: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Anybody tell me what thickness and type of rubber the factory used for the cushions in the front of the torsion bars. I think I cut some out of rubber exhaust hanger strapping last time.....maybe someone is reproing them now ?

Thanks
Owen
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mstrug
Posted 2020-01-30 6:54 PM (#593634 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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https://www.moparmall.com/MoPar-1613388-torsion-bar-seals-p/806-003(x2)-_-825-023-.htm

https://www.hiltopautoparts.com/product/nos-mopar-torsion-bar-rear-a...

https://www.detroitmuscletechnologies.com/mopar-a-b-e-f-body-60-80-t...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Mopar-1959-Torsion-bar-rear-anchor-seal...

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ram300
Posted 2020-01-30 8:11 PM (#593638 - in reply to #593634)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Thanks but I was referring to the cushion that sits between the front of the torsion bar and the rear of the lower control arm to prevent clunking of the torsion bar.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-01-31 12:39 AM (#593644 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers


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you just need a round disc, fairly thick rubber, at least 1/8 inch flat round piece that fits in.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2020-01-31 10:59 AM (#593653 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Just a note that the round discs, which I do believe is what is asked about, were NOT originally part of the torsion suspension engineering. The 1957 cars didn't use them and they first appear in the parts books and in the cars for 1958. Maybe some late '57 cars got them? I don't know. George McKovich was the first to offer new ones for sale probably ten years ago.
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57chizler
Posted 2020-01-31 12:21 PM (#593659 - in reply to #593653)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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.



(Cushion.PNG)



(Cushion_2.PNG)



Attachments
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Attachments Cushion.PNG (8KB - 46 downloads)
Attachments Cushion_2.PNG (4KB - 37 downloads)
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Darryl T
Posted 2020-01-31 1:51 PM (#593663 - in reply to #593653)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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StillOutThere - 2020-01-31 7:59 AM

Just a note that the round discs, which I do believe is what is asked about, were NOT originally part of the torsion suspension engineering. The 1957 cars didn't use them and they first appear in the parts books and in the cars for 1958.


Both of my '57 Dodges had them.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-01 2:44 AM (#593692 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers


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always seen them there... stops the bar from slamming into the back of the bolt

they seems to sit with pressure..



(rubbercover.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments rubbercover.jpg (210KB - 40 downloads)
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StillOutThere
Posted 2020-02-01 6:15 AM (#593695 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Okay, then, like I said, maybe (apparently) late '57 cars got them. So it was a "running change" during production. Goes on all the time in the auto industry.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-01 7:57 AM (#593699 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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My cars didn't have them (60/61) and it is not shown in the FSM either. What are these supposed to do? They can't prevent noise. The T-bar are under tension and can't slide back/forth. That is impossible. The only thing that makes sense is a seal that keeps the grease (greasing the T-bar ends is a must) away from the rubber bushing.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-01 11:03 AM (#593707 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers


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i think it could possibly make noise, it must be forced in there a bit as you can see the impression the end of the bolt made on the hard rubber.
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2020-02-01 12:17 PM (#593711 - in reply to #593699)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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1960fury - 2020-02-01 7:57 AM

My cars didn't have them (60/61) and it is not shown in the FSM either. What are these supposed to do? They can't prevent noise. The T-bar are under tension and can't slide back/forth. That is impossible. The only thing that makes sense is a seal that keeps the grease (greasing the T-bar ends is a must) away from the rubber bushing.


Same here with several 1960-61 cars that I have, none use that rubber bushing.
Interesting, they do have a plastic plug that presses into the torsion bar rear opening to keep out dirt and other debris.
I always thought that was a good idea and wondered why mopar didn’t continue to use the plastic plug on later models like the B and E bodies.
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57chizler
Posted 2020-02-01 12:18 PM (#593712 - in reply to #593695)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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None of the parts books after '57 show the cushion.
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ram300
Posted 2020-02-01 2:32 PM (#593716 - in reply to #593699)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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My thinking was that when travelling along uneven surfaces and the lower control arm is moving around and released of the vehicle weight momentarily the tension on the torsion bar is somewhat less causing possible movement of the torsion bar and these supposedly cushion the blow/noise.

My 2 bits worth.....
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-02 6:21 AM (#593729 - in reply to #593716)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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ram300 - 2020-02-01 2:32 PM

My thinking was that when travelling along uneven surfaces and the lower control arm is moving around and released of the vehicle weight momentarily the tension on the torsion bar is somewhat less causing possible movement of the torsion bar and these supposedly cushion the blow/noise.

My 2 bits worth.....


No
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57chizler
Posted 2020-02-02 4:32 PM (#593743 - in reply to #593716)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Even with the car airborne, the T-bar is under tension enough that the bar isn't going to slap the socket. I'm thinking it was used only in '57 and then deemed unnecessary.

Edited by 57chizler 2020-02-02 4:33 PM
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ram300
Posted 2020-02-02 5:01 PM (#593744 - in reply to #593729)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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"No"

The parts book refers to it as a cushion.

Meaning of cushion "something providing support or protection against impact".



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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-03 12:22 AM (#593750 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers


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it may have been the engineers thought that it could hit or shift somehow and damage a torsion bar. They quickly found out any damage at all could snap a torsion bar.

Probably just a precaution.

Remember the 57's were 58's... no time to road test much.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-03 12:22 AM (#593751 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers


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it may have been the engineers thought that it could hit or shift somehow and damage a torsion bar. They quickly found out any damage at all could snap a torsion bar.

Probably just a precaution.

Remember the 57's were 58's... no time to road test much.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-03 7:28 AM (#593758 - in reply to #593744)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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ram300 - 2020-02-02 5:01 PM

"No"

The parts book refers to it as a cushion.

Meaning of cushion "something providing support or protection against impact".





And they called fins stabilizers. Anyway, anybody with the SLIGHTEST technical/physical understanding knows, the T-bars under tension can't hit the bolt. If (?) the bar shifts or slides it happens VERY slowly and that can't produce any noises. Lets falsely assume t-Bars are not under tension when a car gets airborn, what would make the bars hit the anchor bolt? Nothing. Only under braking the bars would have the tendency to move forward and you can't brake with the front wheels off the ground.
Anyway, the fact that these useless "cushions" were discontinued is all we need to know.

Edited by 1960fury 2020-02-03 7:44 AM
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2020-02-04 1:47 PM (#593798 - in reply to #593711)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Space Trukin Wagon - 2020-02-01 12:17 PM

1960fury - 2020-02-01 7:57 AM

My cars didn't have them (60/61) and it is not shown in the FSM either. What are these supposed to do? They can't prevent noise. The T-bar are under tension and can't slide back/forth. That is impossible. The only thing that makes sense is a seal that keeps the grease (greasing the T-bar ends is a must) away from the rubber bushing.


Same here with several 1960-61 cars that I have, none use that rubber bushing.
Interesting, they do have a plastic plug that presses into the torsion bar rear opening to keep out dirt and other debris.
I always thought that was a good idea and wondered why mopar didn’t continue to use the plastic plug on later models like the B and E bodies.


For Reference, here's a picture of the "cap plug" installed by the factory on the rear side of torsion bar anchor. (1961 model)



(Torsion Bar_Cap.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Torsion Bar_Cap.jpg (242KB - 36 downloads)
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2020-02-05 6:04 AM (#593821 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Isn't that "cushion" actually the rubber seal that was initially installed in the end of the bar...and that was removed part way into the 1957 production year by the bean counters, because it cost a few cents...and then the cars started having bars rusting and breaking on the ends, so Chrysler started using the seals again? I remember reading something about this in a book a few years ago.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-05 7:39 AM (#593823 - in reply to #593821)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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miquelonbrad - 2020-02-05 6:04 AM

Isn't that "cushion" actually the rubber seal that was initially installed in the end of the bar...and that was removed part way into the 1957 production year by the bean counters, because it cost a few cents...and then the cars started having bars rusting and breaking on the ends, so Chrysler started using the seals again? I remember reading something about this in a book a few years ago.


Water can't reach the torsion bar from the anchor-bolt side, so that "cushion" can't seal out any water. As I wrote before, it would only make sense as as seal to keep the grease from the sway bar end away from the rubber bushing.
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wizard
Posted 2020-02-05 9:36 AM (#593825 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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The fsm informs that the plasitc seals "cap plugs" shall be mounted in the rear end of the torsion bar anchor.

This is from the '60 manual, so there was the front anchor seal and the rear anchor seal. Both are ment to avoid moist and dust to enter - there shold be grease behind/in the seals as well.
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57chizler
Posted 2020-02-05 1:03 PM (#593841 - in reply to #593825)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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I'm thinking that a round plug/seal in a hex hole isn't gonna "seal" much.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-05 3:08 PM (#593846 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Right, but isn't there a transition from hex to round? The used OE seal or "cushion" in the pic above doesn't look as if it spent 60 years in a hex-shaped hole.
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wizard
Posted 2020-02-05 3:31 PM (#593847 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Yes, Sid, that's correct, there is a transition from hex to round - I have both my plastic seals intact.

Normally, I always go back to the fsm and MoPar documentations in case of doubt, but in this case, the '60 fsm shows a picture of an rear anchor that is hexagonal all the way through - that is NOT the case, at least for '60. Clearly they re-used a picture of the early type of torsion bar anchor.

Perhaps, with this, we can draw the conclusion that the "cushion rubbers" was nothing more than a seal that didn't work very well so MoPar changed the design?
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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-05 3:47 PM (#593849 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers



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Maybe, but if I ever replace a lower bushing again, or pull a t-bar, I think about adding a seal now.
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Cmangeot
Posted 2020-05-08 9:04 PM (#597973 - in reply to #593622)
Subject: Re: Torsion bar cushion rubbers


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Good timing. My front end is apart. Took out torsion bars this morning. 58 Plymouth. No rubber seal on either bar in lower control arm. Should I put them back?
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