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1958 Imperial Crown Limo
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frwl
Posted 2020-02-29 5:04 PM (#594995)
Subject: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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1958 Imperial Crown Limousine by Ghia at hymanltd.com
One of 31 ever built...
Delivered on April 21, 1958, via Ontario Automobile Co. Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Interestingly - which one in order...

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6541-1958-imperial-crown-limousine-by-...






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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-29 8:53 PM (#595006 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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for 170k i want new leather and the dash fixed!
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NM Desoto
Posted 2020-02-29 10:51 PM (#595009 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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It looks like both front door window switches have been replaced with later parts and the upper panels have been recovered to hide
it.
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60Mopars
Posted 2020-03-01 3:20 AM (#595014 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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As well as fix the w/s wipers...
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-01 3:45 PM (#595042 - in reply to #595014)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Note the 40 amp generator. We don’t see those very often!
Also note the oil dumps from the oil solenoid and fresh air door cylinder located on the left valve cover. I don’t remember seeing them located there before. Up top on the valve cover yes but not low like that!

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-01 4:46 PM (#595045 - in reply to #595042)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Location: Ontario, Canada
Pics



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



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KcImperial
Posted 2020-03-01 9:50 PM (#595054 - in reply to #595042)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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LD3 Greg - 2020-03-01 2:45 PM

Note the 40 amp generator. We don’t see those very often!
Also note the oil dumps from the oil solenoid and fresh air door cylinder located on the left valve cover. I don’t remember seeing them located there before. Up top on the valve cover yes but not low like that!

Greg

That's standard location for the valve cover oil lines on Imperials. It's the only location I've seen on 392 vehicles.
The 40 amp generators are also more common on the fully loaded Crown models. I have a couple with them.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-01 9:59 PM (#595055 - in reply to #595054)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Great! Can you describe the fittings in the valve covers?

Greg
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-03-02 1:40 AM (#595061 - in reply to #595055)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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left is a male push on hose connector, right is a female threaded connector.
I'll dig out a couple of my spare valve covers tomorrow and get better pics of the connectors




(valvecover.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-02 1:23 PM (#595078 - in reply to #595061)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Thank you!

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-02 1:27 PM (#595079 - in reply to #595078)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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I imagine that the push on is for the "blow by" drain from the hydraulic cylinder?

Greg
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finsruskw
Posted 2020-03-02 2:51 PM (#595081 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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Greg,
My blue D is the same way.
Mabey have something to do with the "Schwandt Wire"!!??
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-02 3:36 PM (#595083 - in reply to #595081)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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finsruskw - 2020-03-02 2:51 PM

Greg,
My blue D is the same way.
Mabey have something to do with the "Schwandt Wire"!!??


Dave,
AH —— HA, now that is a closely guarded secret!! I sold a wiring harness to a guy and labelled that wire as such. It took awhile but I got a very puzzled inquiry as to what that wire did!!

Don would be a good person to ask if he has determined what that wire was for or if it was even used on 58 Imperials. Do you have any photos of it. I know I do but can’t think of where to find them!!

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-02 3:57 PM (#595087 - in reply to #595083)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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This D showed up for sale? somewhere and it clearly shows the two wires carrying on towards the clutch after the connector. But, for what reason, and where does the other end go??
I couldn't contact the owner despite trying.

No 40 amp generator on this car.

Greg



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KcImperial
Posted 2020-03-02 5:03 PM (#595089 - in reply to #595083)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 2:36 PM

finsruskw - 2020-03-02 2:51 PM

Greg,
My blue D is the same way.
Mabey have something to do with the "Schwandt Wire"!!??


Dave,
AH —— HA, now that is a closely guarded secret!! I sold a wiring harness to a guy and labelled that wire as such. It took awhile but I got a very puzzled inquiry as to what that wire did!!

Don would be a good person to ask if he has determined what that wire was for or if it was even used on 58 Imperials. Do you have any photos of it. I know I do but can’t think of where to find them!!

Greg

I'm not familiar with the "Schwandt Wire". My '57 is the only one I have with factory AC and still has an original/unmodified wiring harness. It only has a single wire going to the compressor's clutch.
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-03-02 5:04 PM (#595090 - in reply to #595087)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 2:57 PM

This D showed up for sale? somewhere and it clearly shows the two wires carrying on towards the clutch after the connector. But, for what reason, and where does the other end go??
I couldn't contact the owner despite trying.

No 40 amp generator on this car.

Greg

wow, that's a packed engine compartment! dual carbs, AC, and auto-pilot!
what is the giant black regulator box on the firewall behind the compressor?
is that the standard regulator for the generator? if so, was it moved from driver side to passenger side because of the auto-pilot? shouldn't the JiffyJet bag be mounted there?

here's the only AC valve cover I have that's not mounted on an engine. it had the connectors removed and plugged. I don't know anymore about how they drained or functioned



(ValveCover1.jpg)



(ValveCover2.jpg)



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macedon
Posted 2020-03-02 6:28 PM (#595096 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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Here's a few pics. So why doesn't this car have the IMPERIAL valve covers that they switched to in 58? Were the limo's built different?



(58impfitting1.JPG)



(58impfitting2.JPG)



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GregCon
Posted 2020-03-02 9:42 PM (#595109 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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To me, these Imperial limos are all about filth. If I were filthy rich, as I somehow am not (?), I would get one of these Imperials and make it mint and use it as my town car. I'd use it for taking Jennifer out to a fine dinner, or perhaps a simple cruise about town prior to taking her back to the mansion where I would do to her all the filthy things that filthy rich people do.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-02 9:52 PM (#595110 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Great info! Thanks everyone!
Looks there were two "ferrules" pressed into the valve covers. Was this a 58 thing or were they the same for 57 as well? I can't comment on the lack of "Imperial" embossing.

Re: the wiring.
57s had only one blue wire that went to a clip on the compressor head and ended with a single plastic connector. The one wire from the brushes then connected to that.

58s had an extra 14ga. Brown wire in the harness with the blue one that ended in a two pole plastic connector at the cylinder head clip. The single brush wire plugged to the connector so the brown wire did nothing and no one for years has been able to shed any light on this!! That D is the only car I have seen that had two wires going to the clutch. The only possible function I could think of was that some very early brush assemblies had a ground wire. This really doesn't seem reasonable either!

As a topic of interest I have seen those "oil dumps" located higher on the valve covers, on the valley pan, on the oil filler tube base and on the side of the engine pan! Most of my experience was with A/C Dodges, Plymouths, Desotos and Chrysler non 392 engines.

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-02 10:06 PM (#595111 - in reply to #595090)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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KcImperial - 2020-03-02 5:04 PM

LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 2:57 PM

This D showed up for sale? somewhere and it clearly shows the two wires carrying on towards the clutch after the connector. But, for what reason, and where does the other end go??
I couldn't contact the owner despite trying.

No 40 amp generator on this car.

Greg

wow, that's a packed engine compartment! dual carbs, AC, and auto-pilot!
what is the giant black regulator box on the firewall behind the compressor?
is that the standard regulator for the generator? if so, was it moved from driver side to passenger side because of the auto-pilot? shouldn't the JiffyJet bag be mounted there?


Someone offered a suggestion what that giant black box was at the time but I don't remember what it was but it was not for a regulator!!

Greg
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-03-02 11:06 PM (#595112 - in reply to #595096)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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macedon - 2020-03-02 5:28 PM

Here's a few pics. So why doesn't this car have the IMPERIAL valve covers that they switched to in 58? Were the limo's built different?

Yes, they were built differently. They started with a 1957 2dr coupe, shipped to Ghia where it was stretched and converted.
By the time that was finished the '58 model year was starting and so they were "upgraded" with the new grill and front bumper.
You can see this one's 1957 heritage with the valve covers as you noticed, as well as the rear view mirror, rear bumper, trunk lid, etc are still '57 parts
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-03-02 11:11 PM (#595113 - in reply to #595110)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 8:52 PM

Great info! Thanks everyone!
Looks there were two "ferrules" pressed into the valve covers. Was this a 58 thing or were they the same for 57 as well? I can't comment on the lack of "Imperial" embossing.

Re: the wiring.
57s had only one blue wire that went to a clip on the compressor head and ended with a single plastic connector. The one wire from the brushes then connected to that.

58s had an extra 14ga. Brown wire in the harness with the blue one that ended in a two pole plastic connector at the cylinder head clip. The single brush wire plugged to the connector so the brown wire did nothing and no one for years has been able to shed any light on this!! That D is the only car I have seen that had two wires going to the clutch. The only possible function I could think of was that some very early brush assemblies had a ground wire. This really doesn't seem reasonable either!

As a topic of interest I have seen those "oil dumps" located higher on the valve covers, on the valley pan, on the oil filler tube base and on the side of the engine pan! Most of my experience was with A/C Dodges, Plymouths, Desotos and Chrysler non 392 engines.

Greg

Thanks for all the info about the wiring! I definitely learned something new today!
I assume the reasoning for the 392 to have their oil dumps lower on the valve cover was up higher would have been embossed with "Chrysler FirePower" or "IMPERIAL" and not have been a flat enough area for them?
Always wondered about where the hose fittings were on non-Hemi cars. Would be interesting to start a thread if anyone had pictures to share
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-03-03 1:59 PM (#595138 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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Just curious what these oil dumps are for? I saw mention of the fresh air door. Did they operate the A/C doors with engine oil pressure?
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-03 4:51 PM (#595149 - in reply to #595138)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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NicksGarage - 2020-03-03 1:59 PM

Just curious what these oil dumps are for? I saw mention of the fresh air door. Did they operate the A/C doors with engine oil pressure?


Yes they did but only 57 & 58. Actually, quite a complicated system but very good and generally expensive to restore.

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-03-19 8:29 PM (#595765 - in reply to #595110)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 9:52 PM

Great info! Thanks everyone!
Looks there were two "ferrules" pressed into the valve covers. Was this a 58 thing or were they the same for 57 as well? I can't comment on the lack of "Imperial" embossing.

Re: the wiring.
57s had only one blue wire that went to a clip on the compressor head and ended with a single plastic connector. The one wire from the brushes then connected to that.

58s had an extra 14ga. Brown wire in the harness with the blue one that ended in a two pole plastic connector at the cylinder head clip. The single brush wire plugged to the connector so the brown wire did nothing and no one for years has been able to shed any light on this!! That D is the only car I have seen that had two wires going to the clutch. The only possible function I could think of was that some very early brush assemblies had a ground wire. This really doesn't seem reasonable either!

Greg


This is the 58 Imp. currently for sale. Note the two wires to the connector and only one leaving!
Greg



(image.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-12 11:57 AM (#596717 - in reply to #595110)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 9:52 PM

Great info! Thanks everyone!
Looks there were two "ferrules" pressed into the valve covers. Was this a 58 thing or were they the same for 57 as well? I can't comment on the lack of "Imperial" embossing.

Re: the wiring.
57s had only one blue wire that went to a clip on the compressor head and ended with a single plastic connector. The one wire from the brushes then connected to that.

58s had an extra 14ga. Brown wire in the harness with the blue one that ended in a two pole plastic connector at the cylinder head clip. The single brush wire plugged to the connector so the brown wire did nothing and no one for years has been able to shed any light on this!! That D is the only car I have seen that had two wires going to the clutch. The only possible function I could think of was that some very early brush assemblies had a ground wire. This really doesn't seem reasonable either!

As a topic of interest I have seen those "oil dumps" located higher on the valve covers, on the valley pan, on the oil filler tube base and on the side of the engine pan! Most of my experience was with A/C Dodges, Plymouths, Desotos and Chrysler non 392 engines.

Greg


This is the “neighbour’s 57 Imperial” currently on Members Rides. It doesn’t appear that the oil dumps are located on that valve cover like the 58s.

Greg




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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-12 12:32 PM (#596721 - in reply to #596717)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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LD3 Greg - 2020-04-12 11:57 AM

LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 9:52 PM

Great info! Thanks everyone!
Looks there were two "ferrules" pressed into the valve covers. Was this a 58 thing or were they the same for 57 as well? I can't comment on the lack of "Imperial" embossing.

Re: the wiring.
57s had only one blue wire that went to a clip on the compressor head and ended with a single plastic connector. The one wire from the brushes then connected to that.

58s had an extra 14ga. Brown wire in the harness with the blue one that ended in a two pole plastic connector at the cylinder head clip. The single brush wire plugged to the connector so the brown wire did nothing and no one for years has been able to shed any light on this!! That D is the only car I have seen that had two wires going to the clutch. The only possible function I could think of was that some very early brush assemblies had a ground wire. This really doesn't seem reasonable either!

As a topic of interest I have seen those "oil dumps" located higher on the valve covers, on the valley pan, on the oil filler tube base and on the side of the engine pan! Most of my experience was with A/C Dodges, Plymouths, Desotos and Chrysler non 392 engines.

Greg


This is the “neighbour’s 57 Imperial” currently on Members Rides. It doesn’t appear that the oil dumps are located on that valve cover like the 58s.

Greg

I should remember to use my old IPad for posting pics!!



(image.jpg)



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macedon
Posted 2020-04-12 12:42 PM (#596725 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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The 57 Imperial I had with factory A/C did have the oil dumps on the left valve cover.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-12 1:38 PM (#596729 - in reply to #596725)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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macedon - 2020-04-12 12:42 PM

The 57 Imperial I had with factory A/C did have the oil dumps on the left valve cover.


Interesting, thanks. I wonder where the dumps are on this car.

Greg
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-04-12 1:49 PM (#596732 - in reply to #596717)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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LD3 Greg - 2020-04-12 10:57 AM

This is the “neighbour’s 57 Imperial” currently on Members Rides. It doesn’t appear that the oil dumps are located on that valve cover like the 58s.

Greg

I've owned two 1957 Imperials and one 1957 New Yorker, all three had factory AC and all 3 had the oil dumps on the valve cover.
Your neighbor's Imperial is an early production, single headlight car. That may possibly be a factor.
It also appears to have had some restoration work done.
I would assume it's more likely, at some point, the valve cover has been replaced with a non-AC version and the hydraulic lines were eliminated.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-12 11:00 PM (#596749 - in reply to #596732)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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KcImperial - 2020-04-12 1:49 PM

LD3 Greg - 2020-04-12 10:57 AM

This is the “neighbour’s 57 Imperial” currently on Members Rides. It doesn’t appear that the oil dumps are located on that valve cover like the 58s.

Greg

I've owned two 1957 Imperials and one 1957 New Yorker, all three had factory AC and all 3 had the oil dumps on the valve cover.
Your neighbor's Imperial is an early production, single headlight car. That may possibly be a factor.
It also appears to have had some restoration work done.
I would assume it's more likely, at some point, the valve cover has been replaced with a non-AC version and the hydraulic lines were eliminated.


Good points,Don,but as I looked at it I thought it was an extremely well preserved original. The battery cables are factory issue and when was the last time we saw a factory battery hold down that looked that nice?
Greg
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-04-13 2:15 PM (#596771 - in reply to #596749)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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LD3 Greg - 2020-04-12 10:00 PM
Good points,Don,but as I looked at it I thought it was an extremely well preserved original. The battery cables are factory issue and when was the last time we saw a factory battery hold down that looked that nice?
Greg

I agree, it's a great looking Imperial.
If you're using it as an example to justify factory methods/options, then I have to be critical.
Apologies to the owner if any of this seems personal as it's not intended. I don't know any history about this car or it's owner other than the photos posted here.

The entire dash pad has been replaced with a custom/homemade one
The AC switch on the dash is missing/broken - that alone makes the original AC system inoperable/incomplete
Horn pad and lower dash pad have been painted different color
Brake booster has been painted
Battery cables and hold down bracket are easily replaced items, not enough to prove to me everything else is "preserved original"

All this can be considered reasonable maintenance items on a 63 year old vehicle
but it can also suggest to me the possibility that the valve cover might have been replaced or the fresh air door hydraulics may have been bypassed

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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-13 7:06 PM (#596787 - in reply to #596771)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Oh, I’m not using it to justify anything. It was just a comment! I’m pleased to have your input.

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-13 8:49 PM (#596798 - in reply to #595090)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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KcImperial - 2020-03-02 2:04 PM

LD3 Greg - 2020-03-02 2:57 PM

This D showed up for sale? somewhere and it clearly shows the two wires carrying on towards the clutch after the connector. But, for what reason, and where does the other end go??
I couldn't contact the owner despite trying.

No 40 amp generator on this car.

Greg

wow, that's a packed engine compartment! dual carbs, AC, and auto-pilot!
what is the giant black regulator box on the firewall behind the compressor?
is that the standard regulator for the generator? if so, was it moved from driver side to passenger side because of the auto-pilot? shouldn't the JiffyJet bag be mounted there?

here's the only AC valve cover I have that's not mounted on an engine. it had the connectors removed and plugged. I don't know anymore about how they drained or functioned


The black box on the right fender stumped me when I posted it too, but since then, I had a '57 New Yorker with a GM Autronic Eye installed into it. That's what this box is for too. Someone installed one with the sensor on its dash, just like my New Yorker. This 300D in question was purchased by ram300 (Owen), so you can direct any questions about it to him.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-13 8:51 PM (#596799 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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Note the metal pipe in the upper radiator hose of that 300D. That's the original proper setup for an A/C car to protect the radiator hose. The Imperial shown here is missing this original part on it, and you'll find out how necessary it is once you drive the car more than 10K miles.

Edited by Powerflite 2020-04-13 8:55 PM
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KcImperial
Posted 2020-04-13 8:55 PM (#596800 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo



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I'm pleased to have your input as well, Greg. It's not often a good conversation about Imperials gets started here. I've definitely enjoyed participating in this one so far!

Nathan- thank you for clarifying the black box!
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-13 11:11 PM (#596804 - in reply to #596800)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Yes, Nathan, I noticed that there was no short metal pipe there as well, but when you look at the photo there looks to be more clearance between the hose and the belts than we see on a Chrysler or a Dodge. I thought maybe the engine in the Imperial sat a bit deeper?! This is probably something Don could clear up as well.

Thanks for the black box info!

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2020-04-13 11:19 PM (#596805 - in reply to #596804)
Subject: Re: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Thanks also for telling me Owen bought that 300 D. I have corresponded with him off and on for many years! We might get to bottom of the “Schwandt” wire after all. If we do I will certainly post the info!!

Greg
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vedette
Posted 2020-04-16 9:19 PM (#596965 - in reply to #594995)
Subject: RE: 1958 Imperial Crown Limo


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Posts: 3032
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it was cheaper last year https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/af19/auburn-fall/lots/r0137-1958-...
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