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56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 7:59 PM (#595878)
Subject: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Hi, I've been a member here for a while as I work on my 58 plymouth and have learned a lot from this site but I've recently acquired a 56 Royal and thought I might be able to give back a little as I tackle some of the issues I've run across. Some issues I've found it difficult to find the information I desired.

First off, I'm the proud new owner of a 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop! The first thing I had to tackle was the carb. The accelerator pump seal was completely gone! A rebuild kit and its running great!



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:08 PM (#595880 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Then the brakes. An AAJ disc front kit had been installed but It appears the bellow booster was not boosting! May have been an adjustment because it holds vacuum but I tried adjusting it and finally started unbolting that crap, ordered a modern dual chamber booster with a duel master cylinder, added a proportioning valve and I had brakes!
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:13 PM (#595882 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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I used a booster/master cylinder kit designed for a B-body, 8". Can't seem to figure out how to attach a picture now....
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:17 PM (#595883 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Think I figured it out



(20200209_115924_copy_567x487.jpg)



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:24 PM (#595886 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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The car apparently sat in storage a while or hadn't been used in a while. The windows all were hard to roll up and down and the chrome needed a good polish. I took the door panels off, greased the windows up, the wife and I cleaned and polished and cleaned some more......then on to our first cruise in.



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:33 PM (#595887 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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This was our 48 D24 but we recently sold it. Acquiring the 56, I was out of room. We had a blast with the 48, time for a change so that lead us to the 56. Hope to have as much fun with it but still addressing a few issues right now. It had fender skirts when I bought it but the matching hub caps would not fit with the shirts on. The skirts were also bent out to increase clearance. Oh, after the first cruise, I noticed the rear brakes heating up. Pulled the hubs and one side is not so good. Appears the hub is warped, shoes unevenly worn....so time to swap rearend
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:44 PM (#595888 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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I searched hi and low for a 8-3/4, then started searching for a Chrysler 8.25 but couldn't find either the right width. Btw, I measured the rear in the 56 and it is 61" WMS to WMS. I wanted something about 59-1/2. Jeep Cherokee 8.25 would be ideal but couldn't find one. Also, using a gps, my speedo was off so it'd be nice to find a gear ratio to make it right and also be more cruise friendly. By doing the math, I needed to go from 3.54 grease to 3.07. As luck would have it, I found a ford explorer 8.8, 59-1/4" 3.08 gears at the local pull-a-parts. The son and I pulled it and it's going in soon.
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:49 PM (#595889 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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The wheels was something else I wanted to improve. The paint was flaking off and wasd too red, didn't match the car. Do I painted them. Tried to get the wife to buy the no hubcap look but she liked it better with hubcaps.



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 8:52 PM (#595890 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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The paint I bought didn't match exactly, it's a little lighter but not too noticeable
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-22 9:03 PM (#595891 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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The engine and transmission leak fluid so I have gasket sets ordered..... that's going to be a job! Pulling the engine, gaskets and fresh paint......I also want to add under dash ac.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-03-23 1:03 AM (#595895 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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thats a really nice combo. I though i loathed three tones but it actually looks good.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-03-23 3:10 AM (#595897 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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The 8 3/4 that fits is from a B-body. The '65-'67 is the best one, but many people opt for the Ford 8.8. I don't like them because I can't change the gears in them easily and I tend to swap gears around more often than one would expect.
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-23 6:50 AM (#595902 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Thanks Mike and yes powerflite, 8-3/4 was my first choice but I was having difficulty finding the width and ratio I wanted. I found one I'd have to cut down then buy gears, might as well replace bearings..... the cost was significant compared to the 8.8. I checked the centerline of axle to u-joint and it's only 1/8th inch different. Ordered a 7260 to 1310 conversion joint so driveshaft should work. Also, the pinion offset on the 8.8 is about 7/8" more than the stock 56 rear. I don't think that will be a problem. We'll see....
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1960fury
Posted 2020-03-23 7:58 AM (#595903 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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What is/was wrong with a stock OE axle? Very nice car.

Edited by 1960fury 2020-03-23 7:58 AM
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-23 9:50 AM (#595907 - in reply to #595903)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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1960fury - 2020-03-23 6:58 AM

What is/was wrong with a stock OE axle? Very nice car.


The biggest issue for me is the width won't allow these hubcaps with fender skirts. But there's a couple other reasons. I'd prefer higher gears and brake maintenance with tapered axles....I'll give it away to anyone willing to pick it up from Mobile AL.
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Burnemup
Posted 2020-03-23 11:20 AM (#595912 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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Great Looking Car! Personally I like the look without the skirts. Also check u-tube, there is a original commerical the showcases a 56 Custom Royal hardtop that will give some inspiration. Also I believe the wheels were a off white.

Have fun! I have a 55 Custom Royal lancer Hardtop for over 25 years.


Enjoy!
Ernie Baily



(SF2019 55 CRL.jpg)



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-03-23 1:03 PM (#595919 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Thanks Ernie, nice 55!
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-04-08 8:53 PM (#596604 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Finally got the rearend swapped. Turned out more difficult than it should have been. The width is perfect for using fender skirts, had to move the spring perches about a half inch each but shock mounts was a pain. Had to fab some brackets to the spring perches from the explorer. Then the driveshaft ended up too short. Luckily I was able to buy a spacer for the 8.8. Took it for a ride on the interstate and very happy with 3.08 gears. I done the math before buying a rearend and come up with 3.07 gears would correct my speedo. Speedo is right on the money now. I'm guessing maybe the transmission or the speedo gear is not correct for this car but it all worked out well.
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-04-09 9:39 AM (#596623 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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With skirts and 8.8 rearend



(20200409_083242_copy_1008x756.jpg)



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-03 7:57 PM (#597722 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Well, with all this down time, I pulled the engine and transmission to regasket. Everything was going great until I went to torque the rocker shafts. Broke 3 of the 4 hollow studs. Now I'm in a fix!
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-03 7:58 PM (#597723 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Anybody know where I can get replacement studs?



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-03 9:26 PM (#597728 - in reply to #597723)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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bbdakota - 2020-05-03 4:57 PM
Well, with all this down time, I pulled the engine and transmission to regasket. Everything was going great until I went to torque the rocker shafts. Broke 3 of the 4 hollow studs.


You know, people say "No good deed goes unpunished"

Sorry that happened but it is not quite the end of the world yet. I think that the PN for those 55-58 Dodge Poly V8 rocker studs is (Section 9-43-22. pg 9-52, in the 55-58 Mopar Parts catalogue).

On that basis, I found a NOS one on eBay (it's a start):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1955-1958-Dodge-Plymouth-DeSoto-Valve-R...

I tried Len Dawson, Hilltop and Martin Kolner (arizona mopar parts) and came up dry. I can try my NOS guy tomorrow.




Edited by 56D500boy 2020-05-03 10:00 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-04 1:13 PM (#597759 - in reply to #597728)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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I checked with my NOS guy this AM and he doesn't show any in his inventory. Sorry.

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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-04 5:31 PM (#597767 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Thanks for going out of your way for me 56D500boy! Your efforts are much appreciated. I'm gonna try to build 2 hollow and 2 solid. I'll post pics if I'm successful.
Well, there's not much "if" to it. I don't have many choices......
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-04 8:35 PM (#597777 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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I picked up some grade 8 bolts, drilled a 3/8" hole in a block of wood to use as a jig. Positioned the block in the same orientation and drilled the bolts. Hoping the block of wood would keep the hole parallel to the bolt. Not perfect but looks like it's gonna work. I found the short side for the cross drilled holes to keep from removing as much material as possible from the cross section. Tomorrow I'll cut down the 5/16 bolts and TIG them to the heads of the drilled bolts.



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-04 8:56 PM (#597784 - in reply to #597767)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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bbdakota - 2020-05-04 2:31 PM
Thanks for going out of your way for me 56D500boy! Your efforts are much appreciated. I'm gonna try to build 2 hollow and 2 solid. I'll post pics if I'm successful.
Well, there's not much "if" to it. I don't have many choices......


No problemo. I like finding PNs and then looking for the parts - and not just for me. I like the challenge.

Don't all four have to be hollow to deliver oil to the rocker shaft?

I think you should buy the one on eBay to use as a template for anything that you make or get made.

NOTE: I didn't see your bolt drilling photos until after I posted. Good luck on completing them.



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-05-04 11:09 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-04 9:51 PM (#597791 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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You could also try tig welding the original ones back together if you bevel them to make sure you get great penetration. You should be able to re-cut the thread over the weld if you cut down the high spots.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-05 4:12 AM (#597806 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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I just noticed that the ebay listing says 3 are available. This is an amazing find...

Can you find intake rocker arms for a 1955 259? And push rods?
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-05 6:07 AM (#597809 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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"Don't all four have to be hollow to deliver oil to the rocker shaft?"

No, only one on each head delivers oil to the rocker shaft.
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-05 6:19 AM (#597810 - in reply to #597791)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Powerflite - 2020-05-04 8:51 PM

You could also try tig welding the original ones back together if you bevel them to make sure you get great penetration. You should be able to re-cut the thread over the weld if you cut down the high spots.


That is an option but I'm afraid by welding at the point where it broke, I'd take the temper out of the metal and create heat effected zones each side of the weld. There's also the chance metal fatigue had something to do with the breakage. I don't trust them. The ones I'm making, I reduced the hole size a little. The original had 3/16 holes, I went 5/32. The cross hole is the same at 3/32. Should be a little stronger.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-05 10:34 AM (#597814 - in reply to #597806)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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samstrader - 2020-05-05 1:12 AM
I just noticed that the ebay listing says 3 are available. This is an amazing find...


Huh. I missed that. I just re-checked the listing and yup. 3 still available. There's the non-welding answer.

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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-05 11:59 AM (#597816 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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I am working on this now on my car which is a 1955 259. I don't know if it is the same as yours or not but these studs are definitely the same as I have.

The passenger side is only drilled to the cam bearing on the second from the back cam bearing. The location where these studs go in the front on the passenger side is not drilled through the head. The hole has a bottom like all the others other than the one drilled all the way through. Same for the driver side except it is drilled through on the cam bearing second from the front.

On my car, you only need one of these on each side. You can put a solid bolt in the front location on the passenger side and a solid bolt in the back location of the driver side. The main problem it seems is how to hold the valve cover on without the stud sticking all the way up

I'm not expert on these engines like you guys but on my engine, I am certain only one is drilled down to the cam bearings on each side.

The home made bolts in the picture would work perfect on my car to supply oil to the rocker assembly. The only problem would be how to hold on the valve cover. But the bolts would definitely oil the rocker just like the original style studs. And you would only need one of these on each side.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-05 12:25 PM (#597820 - in reply to #597816)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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A few observations:

1. The heads on these cars are the same both sides except they are rotated 180 deg from each other. As a result something that is near the back of one head will be near the front of the other head. This explains the shift in the location of the hollow stud with the oil gallery.

2. The threads on the studs in question are different top to bottom. The bottom most thread is coarse. That is the one that is screwed into the head. The middle one is the one where the nut holds the rocker shaft bracket down. The top thread is for the acorn nut that holds the valve cover to the head. The middle nut is PN 120 369 in Section 9-43-22 ; the acorn nut is 131 517 in 9-03-28. I can't tell if the threads are different but you can't put an acorn nut in the middle position anyway.







(EarlySingleRockerV8ValveTrainDiagram_ShowingSectionsForTheRockerBracketStudNuts.jpg)



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-05 7:40 PM (#597838 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Looks like it worked! The homemade bolts torqued with no problem, valve cover holes lined up without any adjusting. I'm happy!



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-06 3:39 PM (#597871 - in reply to #597838)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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bbdakota - 2020-05-05 4:40 PM
Looks like it worked! The homemade bolts torqued with no problem, valve cover holes lined up without any adjusting. I'm happy!


I would be concerned that the coarse-threaded portion of your new bolt bottomed out in the head before the head of the welded-on fine thread bolt made contact with the rocker shaft bracket sufficiently to hold the bracket and the shaft in place properly (without flexing)



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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-06 4:30 PM (#597873 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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His bottom course threaded portion is much longer so there shouldn't be a problem there. You just loosen the head a little bit when you remove the rockers. But that's the same with the hemi motors too.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-06 4:44 PM (#597874 - in reply to #597873)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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Powerflite - 2020-05-06 1:30 PM
His bottom course threaded portion is much longer so there shouldn't be a problem there.


It's the distance from the bottom of the new coarse bolt to the underside of the head of the fine bolt that concerns me. Maybe it is good but maybe it's not. I would have thought that shorter threads on the coarse section would be better than longer so you know that the head on the fine bolt is firmly in contact with the top of the rocker shaft bracket, not just grazing it.



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-05-06 6:43 PM
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-06 6:39 PM (#597876 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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You all have a good eye! The original other 3 bolts each side are 2-1/4" bolts. I bought 2-1/2" bolts. I run a thread chaser down the holes first. The hollow bolts were fine at 2-1/2" but the solid bolts went into blind holes and I did have to cut 1/4" off the ends so they would not bottom out before tightening on the rocker stands. I should have added this bit of information but didn't think anyone was all that interested in the fine details.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-06 6:49 PM (#597877 - in reply to #597876)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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bbdakota - 2020-05-06 3:39 PM

You all have a good eye! The original other 3 bolts each side are 2-1/4" bolts. I bought 2-1/2" bolts. I run a thread chaser down the holes first. The hollow bolts were fine at 2-1/2" but the solid bolts went into blind holes and I did have to cut 1/4" off the ends so they would not bottom out before tightening on the rocker stands. I should have added this bit of information but didn't think anyone was all that interested in the fine details.


Some of us (ahem) are engineers and it's all about the fine details. Those are the ones that can bite you in the @ss.

Your solution to your problem was clever and it took more than a little skill to carry out so kudos are in order. Congrats on a job well done.

I am happy (for you) that you thought it through and checked the bottoming issue and resolved it by shortening the bolt. Another or additional solution would have been a thicker washer between the bolt head and the rocker shaft bracket to effectively lift the bolt up a bit so when you torqued it down, it was against the bracket top, not the coarse thread bottom.

All good. Congrats again. Well done.

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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-15 5:11 AM (#598306 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Excellent job making your own parts and your parts are stronger than the OEM stuff. Looks just like my rocker assembly except yours are amazingly clean.
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-15 4:12 PM (#598330 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Thanks. It's amazing what an ultrasonic cleaner with Castrol supper clean in it will do. Hope I got the shafts oriented correctly. It's about ready to drop back in the engine bay. I'm cleaning and painting the engine bay now.



(20200515_101455_copy_756x1008.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-15 4:26 PM (#598331 - in reply to #598330)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop



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bbdakota - 2020-05-15 1:12 PM
Thanks. It's amazing what an ultrasonic cleaner with Castrol supper clean in it will do. Hope I got the shafts oriented correctly. It's about ready to drop back in the engine bay. I'm cleaning and painting the engine bay now.


Looking very nice Super-Powered (4bbl) Super Red Ram there Scott.

Any chance that you could post a photo of the timing pointer with some measurements for my friend in this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73826&...

He is missing his pointer for some reason.





Edited by 56D500boy 2020-05-15 4:33 PM
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-15 6:46 PM (#598337 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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BBDakota… Your rocker arm orientation looks right to me. I installed the "locating screw" on the side that was next to the intake valve on both my rockers. That is how I interpreted the picture inn the service manual. I can't see what difference it would make which hole you put the locating screw in but just tried to follow the service manual. The order of your rockers and springs is correct. I double checked the photo. Looks really good. Super clean...
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-15 7:50 PM (#598339 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Thanks samtrader!
56d500boy, I'll get some measurements for your friend tomorrow.
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-24 6:03 PM (#598739 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Posts: 89
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I found my biggest transmission leak. Unfortunately the output shaft support housing is cracked. I cleaned it up, scuffed it and have jb weld on it now. Even if that stops the leak, I'm scared at some point, the jb weld will let go after so many heat cycles. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can't find a powerflite, have it rebuild and waiting to swap the transmission out. I did get the engine and transmission back in the car. Now I gotta fit the new radiator, run new exhaust and all the little bits.

Edited by bbdakota 2020-05-24 6:06 PM




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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-28 5:52 PM (#598910 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Posts: 89
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Exhaust and radiator installed......I'll start it this weekend



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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-29 11:59 AM (#598950 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Location: Beaumont TX
The engine sure looks good. Great job... Underside of the car is perfect.

Regarding the transmission leak, my daughter's 2002 Honda CRV had a crack in the bell housing engine mount. I drilled some holes to put pop rivets in and then wrapped sheet metal around the crack and packed JB weld behind the sheet metal. I doesn't move at all now. The JB Weld took out all of the slack between the bell housing base and the sheet metal and with this flex gone, it's a lot stronger. I'm not sure where your crack starts and ends and if it is a support piece or not. If the strength of the support is not compromised, seems like you could drill into the liquid holding part and push in some RTV or something to isolate the fluid from the crack from the inside. It doesn't look like there is any reason for the fluid to be in that part of the casting. Just thinking about some options to stop the leak. There is almost no pressure there so stopping the leak should be easy. A sheet metal overlay held on by drilled and tapped screws with RTV behind it should totally stop the leak it seems like to me.

Just thinking out loud.

Your engine really looks great...
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-29 5:29 PM (#598966 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Posts: 89
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Thanks Sam.
The more I read about jb weld, the more confident I get about the repair. I got the area good and clean with brake cleaner and compressed air. Then roughed up the area with a carbide burr tip on a die grinder to give the jb weld a clean, oxidation free rough surface to bond to. Time will tell.



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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-29 5:33 PM (#598967 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Posts: 89
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BTW, I've got a high frequency tig outfit, I could disable, clean, weld,retap the hole..... but I'd prefer not go through that trouble and then there's a chance I'd warp the housing.....
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bbdakota
Posted 2020-05-30 4:32 PM (#599004 - in reply to #595878)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Royal 4dr hardtop


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Posts: 89
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Started the car, the rockers are ticking a bit. I gotta pull a valve cover and make sure they getting oil. Total run time about 20 seconds. I have oil pressure. Also have water seeping from the intake gaskets. I was a little concerned using steel gaskets without sealant. Guess I should have used sealant. So far no leaks from the transmission or no oil leaks
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