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Emblem Material
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-20 2:39 PM (#597125)
Subject: Emblem Material



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I'm thinking of machining a bunch of these '58 Fireflite emblems. I've modified the backside of the part to make it easier to machine them on a lathe & mill. What material should I make them out of? I prefer not to use zinc because I don't want them to ever pit and there is no reason to use it with a machining process. I am thinking of using 304 stainless steel, and then polish them directly without plating. Would that work well? I don't have experience with polishing. I'm not sure how realistic it is to be able to polish inside this. The backside will have 4-40 screw holes to hold the emblem in place. No more press rivets. Would anyone be interested in purchasing these if I have them made?

Edited by Powerflite 2020-04-20 9:46 PM




(58FF Emblem.jpg)



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Attachments 58FF Emblem.jpg (28KB - 27 downloads)
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sermey
Posted 2020-04-20 3:36 PM (#597130 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: RE: Emblem Material


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Because of the geometry, not easy to polish, specially hard material as stainless steel with a machined surface. I would use Aluminium, easy for polish, then can be coated, anodized or rechromed as my emblem (08) already shown (CNC Manufactured).

But must be suitable Aluminium for this process.  - SERGE -



Edited by sermey 2020-04-20 3:39 PM




(08 Emblem Manufactured in Aluminium Rechromed.jpg)



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Attachments 08 Emblem Manufactured in Aluminium Rechromed.jpg (83KB - 25 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-20 5:03 PM (#597140 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material



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Thanks for the input sermey. How well does the chrome plate adhere to the aluminum? Does it have issues with peeling over time in the weather? Would brass be any better?
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-04-20 10:01 PM (#597157 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material


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cant chrome aluminum easily.

Could chrome paint them...

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wizard
Posted 2020-04-21 1:14 AM (#597167 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material



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Brass would be optimal for chroming, downside is weight
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sermey
Posted 2020-04-21 2:43 PM (#597188 - in reply to #597167)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material


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wizard - 2020-04-21 7:14 AM Brass would be optimal for chroming, downside is weight

I agree with Sven, brass is best for chroming, for it is an alloy of copper and zinc. But it is heavier than stainless steel and aluminium. 

The most handwork will be to get undistorted mirror finish on this ball-shaped surface. Must say, nice modeled!

Could you show this emblen in original? Thanks. - SERGE -



Edited by sermey 2020-04-21 2:46 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-21 3:04 PM (#597191 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material



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Thanks sermey. This is what it looks like. I changed the backside to screw on the plate that holds the emblem in place, instead of using the press rivets. And I changed it to make it suitable to be machined instead of molded.



(58 Fireflite Fender Emblem.jpg)



(1958-desoto-nos-front-fender-emblem_Back.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 58 Fireflite Fender Emblem.jpg (58KB - 28 downloads)
Attachments 1958-desoto-nos-front-fender-emblem_Back.jpg (113KB - 28 downloads)
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sermey
Posted 2020-04-21 6:23 PM (#597198 - in reply to #597191)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material


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Nathan, I would machine this part from an Aluminium bloc. Rearside full, cutout all along for the profile sheet metall. Then a separate metal as tool, with 3 holes. Two for fix it on the body, the center one for the axis (long screw) to be mounted on the vertical driller. Now polish the first time the rotating part with the portable drilling machine (as 03).

When copper coating is applied, then the final polish before final nickel - chrome. You will get a highly mirroring surface. The aluminium should be suitable for anodize/chrome. No risk of failure, they will be as perfect as my shown "500" letters. Making many parts at a time becomes more cheap - I did 2 sets.

An enjoyable project. Now Good Luck!  - SERGE -  



Edited by sermey 2020-04-21 6:43 PM




(03 - Fine grinding the surface.jpg)



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Attachments 03 - Fine grinding the surface.jpg (95KB - 25 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-21 9:45 PM (#597202 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material



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That would be great if it could be polished while it is still on the lathe. I hadn't thought of that. But I'm not sure that machinists are setup for doing that. But I really like your idea of spinning the part on a drill as you have shown. That would make the polsih process much more uniform and even. Thanks for the tips! Now to drum up enough interest in them so I can get them made cheap enough to do.
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sermey
Posted 2020-04-22 7:01 AM (#597212 - in reply to #597202)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material


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58 FireFlite Emblem: As I am a lover of emblems, as yours, I have quickly modeled the body for you, estimating the dimension from you picture. Then I have “mounted” the body on your car, first natural (01), then chromed (02). For you and those working in SolidWorks I have added the original SLDPRT-File for SW16, for it is smaller than 250k.

Proceeding, to see in the Feature Manager:

1. MasterSketch, reference for all next operations. The dimensions must be corrected to the original.

2.    2. Convert the contour from the MasterSketch and the axis for Revolve the Body.

3.    3. Shell the full body to 3mm.

4.    4.Cut out for the sheet metal, contour converted from the MasterSketch.

5.    5. Fill Body, 3mm over rear center face and add a fillet.

 

Thus, any shape and dimension can be changed in the MasterSketch, and all will be then modified. No need HighSchool, but the aim to create something and have the motivation for do it. Of course here you need SolidWorks (16 or higher), as light and school version available. – SERGE -

 

 





(01 58 Fireflite Fender Emblem Natural.jpg)



(02 58 Fireflite Fender Emblem Chrome.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 01 58 Fireflite Fender Emblem Natural.jpg (104KB - 27 downloads)
Attachments 02 58 Fireflite Fender Emblem Chrome.jpg (112KB - 25 downloads)
Attachments 2020-04-22 SW16 58 FireFlite Fender Emblem.SLDPRT (191KB - 29 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-22 10:01 AM (#597215 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material



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The chrome on yours looks better than the original. I have an older version of Solidworks and don't have a license to realview graphics at the moment so I can't make them as pretty as you can. Once I get my new work computer & software, I can take a look at the file you posted.
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sermey
Posted 2020-04-22 11:27 AM (#597219 - in reply to #597215)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material


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Nathan, for not be frustrated: here the MasterSketch (01) and the Feature Manager (02). This can be done as well down to SolidWorks 2010.

BTW: The Hubcaps in RealView I did 10 years ago with SW10. See on top bar "View settings". May-be your videocard is not certified and does not support Realview.

 

Viewing a thread - Modeling my 59 Dodge in 3D-CAD

 

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34070&start=1



Edited by sermey 2020-04-22 12:09 PM




(01 MasterSketch.jpg)



(02 Feature Manager.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 01 MasterSketch.jpg (75KB - 27 downloads)
Attachments 02 Feature Manager.jpg (121KB - 30 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2020-04-22 4:23 PM (#597226 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: RE: Emblem Material



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Hi, Nathan: I'm interested in a set.  It looks like a good plan for the bezel.  With the small indentations in the interior ring, it might be hard to polish uniformly, even on a drill press.  Would a chrome process be better?  Also, once completed, how do we address the emblem?

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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-22 4:56 PM (#597227 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material



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Underneath every chrome plating is a polished layer. Otherwise, it wouldn't give a mirror finish. Most of the time, that polished layer is a coating of copper that is polished because it's easy to do. But if you use brass, you may not need to plate with copper first, so you would just polish the brass before plating with nickel. Also with stainless, you wouldn't need to do any chrome so you would polish it directly. But stainless could be coated with copper, nickel, & chrome just like standard zinc parts, if desired. Those little indents aren't going to be able to be polished, but I don't think they were polished on the originals either, so they will look a little more dull silver if you look at them very closely.

As for the emblem, that's another matter. Emblemagic may be the only game in town, but they want a fortune for these things. May be able to talk http://kpusabil.se/ in Sweden into making some if they can.
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The Adventurer
Posted 2020-04-23 3:24 AM (#597246 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: RE: Emblem Material



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Nathan if it helps , the guy i had make the Firedome emblems , he said he used some sort of pewter mix material and he said in 500 years it will never pit and chromes well.
Of course i dont know the exact mix , but i know he uses the spin method to make them . He makes all our popular emblems for australian cars .

Check his website , as he was justa souvenir badge maker originally

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FIREDOME-Rear-Quarter-Badges-x2-PAIR-New...



Edited by The Adventurer 2020-04-23 3:26 AM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-04-23 6:01 PM (#597265 - in reply to #597125)
Subject: Re: Emblem Material


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people make alot of stuff out of zamac. i was thinking about making some emblems...
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