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Torsion Bar Size / Swapping
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AceS
Posted 2020-04-29 1:23 PM (#597514)
Subject: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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I'd like to get a little more spring rate on my 57 Coronet. The current bars are roughly 1.05". What, if anything is available? Were they bigger in AC cars or the like?
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Mike P
Posted 2020-04-29 4:23 PM (#597523 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping


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the 57-58 Chrysler Windsor bars physically interchange.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-29 7:21 PM (#597526 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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I think you are missing a zero. My '58 Windsor bars are only about 1.005", and even my New Yorker bars are only about 1.03". But anyway, I don't think you're going to get an increase that way. Wagon bars are supposed to be larger, but I doubt that you need it unless you have a 392 installed in there. If you are having handling issues, I have found that the #1 problem with these cars is the rear springs are too soft. And make sure you have a good sway bar on the front with good bushings and run a good set of shocks like KYBs. If you do that, you can have a very nice handling machine without stiffening the sway bars, which will make it ride more harsh anyway. My '58 Firedome is a dream to drive around corners at high speed just from doing what I said.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-04-29 9:54 PM (#597530 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping


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i wouldn't mess with the torsion bars. They were already overkill. im curious what the stock vs d500 torsion bar sizes are?

maybe go with the d500? not sure you can even find a stet for sale, they arent cheap

If you look at the later bars they went smaller.

racing torsion bars are 1.1 inch.

Here is A body sizes and applications

Here is a list of the different torsion bars. These are all for a-bodies only. Included are the mopar performance part numbers (p-part numbers) and where applicable, the OE part # (even ending number is right side--odd is left side---ex. 2535888 is right, 2535889 is left)

.810" 90#/in p5249148 drag bars
.830" 100#/in (2535888-9) slant six bars
.850" 110#/in (2535890-1) slant six w/ air--318 w/o air )
.870" 120#/in p5249149 (2535892-3) 318 w/ air--340 std bars
.890" 130#/in p5249150 383 std bars
.920" 150#/in p5249151 h/d handling
.990" 200#/in p5249152 solo/road race
1.040" 250#/in p5249153 h/d solo road race-oval track
1.090" 300"/in p5249154 oval track 1/4 mi--optional 1/2 mi
1.140" 300#/in p5249155 oval track 1/4 and 1/2 mile
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AceS
Posted 2020-04-30 12:48 AM (#597534 - in reply to #597530)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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A body torsion bars are somewhere around 5 inches shorter so those spring rates don't compare well. B/E bar rates would be closer assuming the same steel.

Regardless, thanks for all the suggestions, but I just really need to know if there are any known options for swapping in stiffer bars from other similar models. I was hoping that perhaps some loaded hemi Chrysler or something would have larger diameter bars that could swap in? Anyone know the answer?
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-30 3:02 AM (#597536 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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Take a look at the parts list. There are some heavy duty bars listed as well as wagon bars. But I think you may already have the heavy duty option in there because, as I said, your current bars are probably the same size as my '58 Windsor bars. 300 cars & other senior body cars have larger bars, but they won't fit in your car because they are longer. I think your only hope is finding a set of wagon bars, but I don't know what their diameter is.
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AceS
Posted 2020-04-30 11:58 AM (#597544 - in reply to #597536)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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Powerflite - 2020-04-29 12:02 PM

Take a look at the parts list. There are some heavy duty bars listed as well as wagon bars. But I think you may already have the heavy duty option in there because, as I said, your current bars are probably the same size as my '58 Windsor bars. 300 cars & other senior body cars have larger bars, but they won't fit in your car because they are longer. I think your only hope is finding a set of wagon bars, but I don't know what their diameter is.


Thanks. I had read elsewhere to look at wagons, but no details as to size difference. What is "the parts list"?

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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-30 12:42 PM (#597546 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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You can get a copy here: http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=107

The list shows 2 sets of heavy duty bars: 952,953 for non-wagons and 956,957 for wagons, as well as standard bars for wagons. It doesn't give diameters though to compare them.
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57burb
Posted 2020-05-02 12:50 AM (#597629 - in reply to #597546)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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This little PDF file has all the '57-59 torsion bar part numbers and interchange info. It does not have bar diameter into or spring rates.

http://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/torsion-bar.pdf
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2020-05-04 5:55 AM (#597740 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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KYB's are not 'good' shocks.
They work 'OK' for our cars but if you ever decide to really spend some money on shocks, you'll see quickly they are just average.

FirmFeel supposedly can make about any torsion bar and thickness you would like.
Sway-A-Way makes Mopar bars too. Their pricing is better but I'm not sure if they can make custom bars.

I've upgraded my daily driven '73 Dart already with 1" diameter torsion bars (from 0.87" stock) and I'm upgrading to 1.08" Sway-A-Way torsionbars soon again.
1" bars on big cars are 'wimpy' by today's standards and certainly NOT overkill. If you really think 1" bars are overkill you probably wear pink underwear too

Springrates in general could/should be improved by at least 50%. Along with matching quality shocks you can have your car drive like almost any modern large luxury car.
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AceS
Posted 2020-05-10 12:12 AM (#598024 - in reply to #597740)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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Thanks. Given lack of information and options, I'm converting the car to use later B-body bars which have a wide range of spring rate choices.
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AceS
Posted 2020-05-11 5:25 PM (#598098 - in reply to #598024)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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For what it's worth, it looks like Firm Feel's C-Body torsion bars for 65-77 Ply and 72-73 Dodge may work. They might need a 1/4" or so hex shim between the end of the bar and the clip. Available sizes are 1.06/185lb, 1.12 220lb, and 1.18/280lb.

Maybe I'll bet able to save myself from more welding.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-11 6:12 PM (#598101 - in reply to #597514)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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What is the length & hex size on it?
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1960fury
Posted 2020-05-11 7:19 PM (#598107 - in reply to #597740)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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BigBlockMopar - 2020-05-04 5:55 AM


I've upgraded my daily driven '73 Dart already with 1" diameter torsion bars (from 0.87" stock) and I'm upgrading to 1.08" Sway-A-Way torsionbars soon again.
1" bars on big cars are 'wimpy' by today's standards and certainly NOT overkill. If you really think 1" bars are overkill you probably wear pink underwear too



I second that, especially with the stock sway bars, that are not an efficient design (frame brackets way too close to the centerline). 1" is not nearly enough. My car (light 118" w. b. unibody with some add. weight saving mods, and a rear sway bar) has a 1.1/8" front bar and I wish I had ordered it bigger!
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AceS
Posted 2020-05-13 1:49 AM (#598172 - in reply to #598101)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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Powerflite - 2020-05-11 3:12 AM

What is the length & hex size on it?


The C-body bar is 44 inches long, but the hex is somewhere around 1.4 inches. The hex would have to be trimmed down to 1.25 inch to fit the Coronet control arm and rear holder.

Later B/E body hexes are the same size as 57 Coronet, but are only 41 inches long.

So... move the mount or trim the hexes down? Either way, there is a solution.
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wheelcover
Posted 2020-05-24 10:47 PM (#598746 - in reply to #597740)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping


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Earlier post said KYB are not good shocks, but no mention of what are. Please elaborate as to what’s recommended by those with more performance shocks. Koni? QAI? I’d like to know and I’m sure others would as well.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-05-25 6:52 AM (#598755 - in reply to #597740)
Subject: RE: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping



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BigBlockMopar - 2020-05-04 5:55 AM

KYB's are not 'good' shocks.
They work 'OK' for our cars but if you ever decide to really spend some money on shocks, you'll see quickly they are just average.




IMO there are an improvement over stock and since they are as cheap as it gets and last a very long time, I'd call them good.
What are the shocks you recommend for 57-61 full size cars?
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22mafeja
Posted 2020-05-28 11:57 AM (#598899 - in reply to #598172)
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Size / Swapping


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have a 965 HD torsion bar to the left and a 961 bar to the right on my firedome 58. They are 1,1 " and 1,003". One can absolutely not say that the suspension behaves oddly.
This was done because a former fellow had cut a wound in the original left when he was doing some bodywork. When I got the replacement it was a 965.
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