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57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-13 3:57 AM (#599609)
Subject: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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The summer after I bought the car I noticed a few second of delay when I put in drive. BUT, once it went into drive everything else worked perfectly. Shift points were normal no slipping during shifts...nothing, so I nursed it along for another year, long story short, it got much worse, but only the amount of time. And after that time, everything work normally

So anyway, I'm posting on here in hopes that I may get some useful tip, good advice and maybe even some useful historical knowledge.

This will be my first cast iron torqueflite that I've ever worked on. I'm been working on TF's for a lot of years but not the Cast Iron Baby.

So, assist away!

Than you so much
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wizard
Posted 2020-06-13 4:59 AM (#599610 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Internal leakage, most probably front clutch seal rings and/or bore issues and/or rubber seal
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-13 12:50 PM (#599621 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: RE: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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The 57 Dodge Factory Service Manual (FSM) has a section on the TorqueFlite starting on page 345 in the hardcopy or 346 of 530 in the 57 Dodge FSM pdf document available at MyMopar.com.

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109

Download. Open. Save in a folder you can find again. Open. Use.







(57DodgeTorquefliteCrossSection.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 57DodgeTorquefliteCrossSection.jpg (229KB - 336 downloads)
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-13 4:54 PM (#599629 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: RE: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Like Sven said, leakage at the front clutch. As advised in the other thread, try an additive to rejuvenate the seals.
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westaus29
Posted 2020-06-13 10:21 PM (#599639 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...


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Take a look at this link that I had lost but have found. Chrysler Master Technician articles covering many of our cars in general and auto trans in particular

http://imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/index.htm
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-14 2:51 AM (#599645 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: RE: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Yea, we stared with the additive. it didn't slow the leak or speed up the engagment into gear after pressing D. I'm wondering, should I be doing pressure test while the trans is still together to maybe help pinpoint the problem? Or many an airtest deal? I've never used either. I just tossed the spent frictions and put new in, buttoned it back up.

Wayne
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-16 12:55 AM (#599738 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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When I started this one I thought I was in the transmission section.

wizard, are you able to move a thread to a different section? If so, would you?

Thanks,

Wayne
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2020-07-26 2:20 PM (#601359 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...


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Had the same problem with slow to engage Drive in my 57 Dodge Royal. Tried adding Lucas trans fluid, that made it worse. Drained the trans, and filled it with fresh trans fluid and a bottle of Trans X. It took a few weeks for the Trans X to do its magic and soak into the hardened shrunken seals in the trans, but it gradually got better as I started and moved the car every few days. Within a month, it was engaging Drive instantly and solidly. That was a year ago, still working perfectly now.

This was suggested to me by 57 Chizer on this board. Others here have had similar success with Trans X. Sure is lot cheaper and easier than re-building your trans!
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 6:42 AM (#613684 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: RE: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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I wanted to put up an update to this story.

The trans worked fine once it clicked into drive and, by the way, it clicked into reverse immediately.

I got the trans apart and found the frictions worn but that wasn't the problem, it was a rubber o ring on the drive sleeve.
It was so hard I thought it was one of a metal friction ring at first. Then I got a good look at it and realized that it actually wasn't steel, nor had it ever been LOL, nor was it a sealing ring. You know how most of them snap together right? Some just butt together. That's what I originally thought this was.
NO, it used to be a regular o ring!

I started figuring out where things went and what was probably a redundant piece etc. and low an behold I find a nice soft rubber o ring that is like exactly the size that should go where that sealing...ring? WOW...LOL it hit me what that dried up black piece of plastic used to be, a nice soft rubbery piece of rubber! LOL

So anyway, I went through the rest of the process leaving no stone unturned. Everything that had a new part replacement got changed.
I carefully went through the valve bodies. There are three of them. None are particularly complex or anything but I was careful and took my time and cleaned the crap out of everything and lightly oiled everything and put it all back together and put it on the shelf.

I initially pulled the motor and transmission so that I could clean up the god aweful looking engine bay, rebuild the trans and freshen up the engine. I had the trans kit, which was pretty spendy and I planned to do the engine bay myself so mostly just materials for cost but I didn't have a clue how I was going to come up with the money to rebuild my very tired poly.

The answer to my prayers came in the form of a 56 Chrysler 354 Hemi. Low miles, ran great, you name it...it had my car written all over it.
Then I find out I had the wrong oil pan and pickup and accessories and valve covers and on and on and on.

The installation was doable and I could have had it done by now but I also had a pretty well destroyed manual steering gear.
And then I ran across a complete 57 Plymouth POWER steering system!

So I'm sure everyone by now sees where I'm going with this, I got burried in makeing all this crap, look nice and play together....

When I ended up doing was putting the tired poly back in for one last summer so I could drive the darn car this summer because it was becoming very clear that I was in well over my head with all the individual projects and the hemi totally wasn't having anything to do my power steering pump.

All the while my freshly rebuilt and beautifully painted transmission was just sitting there waiting for me to decide what it was getting bolted to.

I get it all in last week and I've been whittling away at the details and the other night I pour the nice new full synthetic fluid in and something wasn't right.
The shifter had to be off or something so I screwed around with that for days only to find out it wasn't adjustment.

For some reason when it's in reverse it locks the driveline up as if there were a transbrake button being held down!

I dropped the pan just to make darn sure it wasn't a cable adjustment problem. I physically watched the detent ball drop into all selections. And all forward gears were working.
But when in neutral it was behaving like it was in first gear. It would drive but not shift. And, again, reverse was "transbrake".

So it has to be in the valve body...that's really the only possibility right?

I pulled the valve bodies assembly and started, as the book says with the lower and then the rear and so far nothing is out of place.

I'm about to go back out and I'm praying I find something wrong in the last, the "front" valve body but...I mean...I'm not an idiot. I wouldn't have put it back together differently than it was when I took it apart. Especially when I took pictures of every step.

But out I go.... If that's not it I really don't know where to turn.

I'll be back shortly...

Wayne
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mikes2nd
Posted 2021-07-22 9:43 AM (#613687 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...


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where did you get your trans rebuild kit?

 

this is why i always keep a spare trans laying around :

If i see them i grab them. often for 100-200$



Edited by mikes2nd 2021-07-22 9:44 AM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 10:09 AM (#613688 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Ok, I went through the valve bodies thoroughly. There's not a nick, scratch, valve backwards or in the wrong hole anywhere. Nothing overtightened....NOTHING. I almost wish I would have found something in backwards or the spring and or valve in the wrong order...SOMETHING....ANYTHING!

The manual says to mount the quick release thingy up off the surface 7/32". I don't know what I had it set at before but I was able to take the housing off and put it back on and the part that the cable snaps into would go right down that tube no problem. This time I used the drill bit as a gauge and couldn't get that sob to cooperate for poop! I think it's because I'm tired. I made the mistake of coming in and taking a little snack break after I got the valve bodies put on and torqued down.
I found myself getting way too frustrated way too fast. must be time for a nap...
I guess now I won't know if the problem's solved till later after I sleep a few hours.

Yea, I had another one back there but it was way too modern. Actually I have two more push buttons but one's got cooling lines and it's so rusty I could barely get the pan off to find out it had a totally different valve body arrangement and I think the other is a powerflte and it also has a busted bellhousing. Some dumbazz tried pulling the motor with the bolt still in I'm guessing.

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-22 10:16 AM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 11:16 AM (#613689 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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crap, I'm so tired I didn't answer your first question, fatsco it's rather spendy and there was a $200 core PER band. I guess I should consider myself lucky they felt my bad was good enough to reline.

all nighters are very effective if things are going well, you know, like you're on a roll and there's no point in stopping until you're not on a roll anymore and nothing's going right LOL I'm going to try to sleep but I don't seem to get much of that anymore.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-07-22 1:16 PM (#613693 - in reply to #613688)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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This probably won't help but you might want to review the A-466 Hydraulic Systems manual:

http://www.ch300imp.com/tqf-intro.htm

To me, the issue is with either regulator valve or the manual valve that is allowing (somehow) both the front and rear clutches to be engaged at the same time.



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-07-22 1:21 PM




(A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_DriveStartingFromStop.jpg)



(A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_Reverse.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_DriveStartingFromStop.jpg (182KB - 158 downloads)
Attachments A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_Reverse.jpg (177KB - 155 downloads)
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57chizler
Posted 2021-07-22 2:49 PM (#613699 - in reply to #613684)
Subject: RE: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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jaded13640 - 2021-07-22 3:42 AM

I get it all in last week and I've been whittling away at the details and the other night I pour the nice new full synthetic fluid in and something wasn't right.
The shifter had to be off or something so I screwed around with that for days only to find out it wasn't adjustment.

For some reason when it's in reverse it locks the driveline up as if there were a transbrake button being held down!

I dropped the pan just to make darn sure it wasn't a cable adjustment problem. I physically watched the detent ball drop into all selections. And all forward gears were working.
But when in neutral it was behaving like it was in first gear. It would drive but not shift. And, again, reverse was "transbrake".

So it has to be in the valve body...that's really the only possibility right?



If the check ball circled in yellow below is missing, the forward clutch will apply in Reverse...effectively locking up the trans. Also, any irregularities where the VB mates to the case can cause cross feed problems.



(A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_Reverse.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_Reverse.jpg (130KB - 148 downloads)
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 5:44 PM (#613703 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Ok...Now we're onto something. Where on the transmission is that check ball? There were balls in the valve bodies. They are retained with little washer things. All that were supposed to be there were there. If that ball is supposed to be in the transfer plate that the valve bodies bolt to....there were no balls in the fluid transfer plate. If there's supposed to be one there and we know where and what size ball, I'll comb the earth to find it and get it in there. But right now I was just about to put the pan back on and put fluid in and try again.

So I'm waiting...

If anyone is knows the answers and it willing to call me, I have a copy of the pages above printed out. Actually I have the entire transmission section of the 57 Dodge Service manual printed out. I can be reached at 810-875-2939
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 5:46 PM (#613704 - in reply to #613693)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Dave you have a private message

you both have private messages

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-22 5:48 PM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 6:12 PM (#613705 - in reply to #613693)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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56D500boy - 2021-07-22 1:16 PM

.

http://www.ch300imp.com/tqf-intro.htm

To me, the issue is with either regulator valve or the manual valve that is allowing (somehow) both the front and rear clutches to be engaged at the same time.



The components in the valve bodies were all like brand new. Other than some friction wear and some dried out o-rings the internals of the trans were in amazingly good shape. Actually, if it wasn't for the dried up and split o ring I could have gotten a few more years out of the frictions.

This o-ring in particular


the one was cracked when got in there, the other in the picture broke while taking it out.

So if I'm reading the pages of the link above correctly the ball check valve in the yellow circle is in the one or the other clutch drums? If so they were there and were checked carefully for free movement when I build this.

The manual valve itself is in perfect shape as well as the bore it rides in. Again, there was no debris or wear on anything.

I also didn't find anything alarming about the regulator valve. I don't have another one to try in either cases so I'm not sure what else to do.

Or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Wayne

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-22 6:20 PM




(IMG_20201025_175143.jpg)



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Attachments IMG_20201025_175143.jpg (31KB - 153 downloads)
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 8:20 PM (#613707 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Well, after verifying everything on the valve bodies it does the same thing. You start it in neutral and it runs like it's in first gear. You put it in drive and it shifts normally. You put it in reverse and it's locks everything up. I'm beside myself.

If it wasn't what it is I think I'd be swinging a sledgehammer by now!!

I've read everything I can get my hands on and I still don't know for sure where that check ball is that is circled in yellow.



Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-22 8:23 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-07-22 8:29 PM (#613708 - in reply to #613707)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Wayne:

You might have to slog through Don Verity's write-up to find that check ball:

http://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/trans/torqueflite.html

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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-22 9:29 PM (#613710 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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I don't see how. I've got 5 times that many pics and I don't know where the effin thing is.
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-23 10:39 AM (#613719 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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I wasn't trying to be rude, I literally took a picture of every single piece of that transmission as I took it apart and lovingly cleaned and inspected it. I say inspected it but I really just looked at it, there wasn't any wear on anything except on the frictions and steels and they weren't worn out, I only replaced em because I had new ones. I kept the frictions to hang on the wall and show people how little wear there was inside that thing after 63 years of use.

The problem is that pictorial doesn't confirm what I think I know. If the ball check in that picture isn't in the valve body and it isn't in clutch drums I don't know where it is.

I guess today I'm going to pull the regulator valve out and look at it. I'm not expecting to see anything wrong with it because there wasn't anything wrong with it when I took it out, cleaned it, look it over and put it back when I rebuilt the trans.

So I'm kinda screwed.

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Wayne

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-23 11:52 AM
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57chizler
Posted 2021-07-23 4:01 PM (#613734 - in reply to #613719)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Your problems i.e. drives in Neutral, works fine in the forward gears then locks up in Reverse points to a forward clutch that's not releasing. Either too tight (no) clearance or an errant hydraulic issue.

The forward clutch (front clutch) is applied in all forward gears but not Reverse.
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-23 8:44 PM (#613737 - in reply to #613734)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Yea, that's that stupid deal where you have to use the pressure plate from the rear clutch to set up the front clutch and then use the input shaft/pressure plate and press it in.

The weird part about assembling the front clutch was that it has the taper wash that took a crap load of pressure to overcome just so I could assemble it...I think it was called a cushion spring. So yea....it's tighter than hell! That's the only way it can be. The only thing I can even think of doing to fix that is to take that spring out.

The frustrating part about this whole deal is that he darn trans worked. it just had a broken seal. I took everything out and put it back together CLEAN and in the order it came apart. Now it doesn't work....

The book mentions a check ball in the front cutch. Of course I made sure it was free and clean.

Effin thing. Eff that trans!
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-23 9:50 PM (#613738 - in reply to #613734)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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57chizler - 2021-07-23 4:01 PM

Your problems i.e. drives in Neutral, works fine in the forward gears then locks up in Reverse points to a forward clutch that's not releasing. Either too tight (no) clearance or an errant hydraulic issue.

The forward clutch (front clutch) is applied in all forward gears but not Reverse.


So I think the regulator valve was mentioned above, not by you, but is that even a possibility?
I mean if it were broken in two in somehow in there backwards maybe...but is there any reason to waste time messing with that?

Or just pull it and check out what's going on with the front clutch?



Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-23 9:52 PM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-23 10:37 PM (#613740 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Well, it's getting late and I doubt you'll see this. I'm pulling that out tonight. If you're the night owl type I'll be up and I'll post updates and pics over the night.

Cover me...I'm goin in!
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-07-23 11:40 PM (#613741 - in reply to #613734)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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57chizler - 2021-07-23 1:01 PM
The forward clutch (front clutch) is applied in all forward gears but not Reverse.


These two diagrams (2nd Gear and 3rd Gear) might or might not help this discussion:





(A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_2ndGear.jpg)



(A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_3rdGear.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_2ndGear.jpg (183KB - 155 downloads)
Attachments A_466TorqueFliteControlSystem_3rdGear.jpg (172KB - 151 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-07-24 1:51 AM (#613743 - in reply to #613741)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Okay. I did a search in the 55-58 Parts catalogue and I found seven "balls" involved with the hydraulic control system, as shown below. One of them should be the shifter comb detent ball but one of the other six will be the check valve ball that might be causing the issue (??)




Edited by 56D500boy 2021-07-24 2:17 AM




(A_466Torqueflite_BallLocations.jpg)



(ValveBodyWithItem24CheckValveBalls_1.jpg)



(ValveBodyWithItem24CheckValveBalls_2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments A_466Torqueflite_BallLocations.jpg (126KB - 148 downloads)
Attachments ValveBodyWithItem24CheckValveBalls_1.jpg (65KB - 152 downloads)
Attachments ValveBodyWithItem24CheckValveBalls_2.jpg (101KB - 152 downloads)
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-24 4:13 AM (#613744 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Thank you! They're all there. Every one. Present and accounted for. Well...except for the second valve body, that's far more modern than mine is.

Yesterday I took the valve bodies out and, even though I knew darn well all the balls from the valve bodies would have gotten back where they belonged before I started but you can't rule something out with 100% confidence from memory alone, especially on something I did last fall. So I took them all out, just to be sure.

Tonight I pulled the transmission back out and is on the bench. I got tired and wanted to wait till tomorrow to check out the front clutch. I'm pretty sure there was a checkball in that. I'm going to make darn sure that darn thing's not stuck or something.

But you know I got to thinking, if the check ball from the pictorial in the manual would have just been numbered or somehow referenced back to something I sure could have saved myself a lot of hair because I must have ripped out half of mine trying to figure out where and looking for it yesterday! Dirty rats!

But thanks again!

Wayne

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-24 4:26 AM
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wizard
Posted 2021-07-24 9:35 AM (#613747 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Check the overrunning (sprag) clutch as well......
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57chizler
Posted 2021-07-24 4:42 PM (#613751 - in reply to #613738)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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jaded13640 - 2021-07-23 6:50 PM
So I think the regulator valve was mentioned above, not by you, but is that even a possibility?


No, nor can the overrunning clutch cause your problem. As I stated above, the front clutch is the likely culprit.

What can happen is, if the clutch piston return spring retainer snap ring becomes dislodged, the piston can pop out of its bore and jam the clutch...this will cause forward drive in Neutral, normal forward gear operation and lockup in Reverse.

Just spitballing but it's worth a look.

Edited by 57chizler 2021-07-24 4:44 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-07-24 9:01 PM (#613755 - in reply to #613744)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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jaded13640 - 2021-07-24 1:13 AM
Thank you! They're all there. Every one. Present and accounted for. Well...except for the second valve body, that's far more modern than mine is.


Pretty sure that a 57 Dodge Torqueflite will have the same valve bodies as the 57 Windsor Torqueflite that is in my car:







REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73637&...


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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-25 4:04 PM (#613786 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Yea, that's the same three piece valve body that I just had back out and put back in....I knew I couldn't have had anything screwed up in there, I did each piece one at a time I had the manual as a guide and I took pictures of it as I laid it all apart. But...I had to double check that first. Even if I suspected the front clutch I'd have to rule out the valve body.

I've got the transmission pulled and on the bench. I just pulled the pan back off and was preparing myself to pull it apart. That front clutch has that cup washer/spring. It was a challenge just getting it back together. I had to use the press to overcome the force of that spring steel washer thing.
Something has it hung up in there...I'll find out what it is and get it straightened out.

I'll get pictures of the culprit.

Wayne
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-25 9:24 PM (#613797 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: RE: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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I think I've got a good idea as to what was happening. The engagement between the ears on the pressure plate/input shaft were rather tight.
I noticed that when I was rebuilding the trans and assumed that was probably typical.
This time around, because I was looking for anything and everything that might seem even a little off I messed around going around and around until it dropped in and didn't seem to drag at all.

Before having this issue with the trans I never would have guessed that that could have been a problem. I mean it's the pressure plate and who cars if it's tight? Right? Well, I don't care if it was tight as long as it was perfectly flat against the snap ring. Before I made the assumption that it had to be flat against the snap ring given that the stupid "cushin spring" took 500 pounds of force to overcome it and be able to get the snap ring in. Well, It SHOULD have sat flush but I'm not taking anything for granted. I don't know if I can make a little circle on the photo to point to where I was referring to. If so, there'll be one...if not...

I wish I had zoomed a little closer. Look close at those ear and the lugs they engage, they're not like a typical ear and lug.

Wayne

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-25 9:51 PM




(IMG_20210725_185140.jpg)



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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-25 9:48 PM (#613798 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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I was just sitting here thinking about my thoughts when I assembled that in the first place. I took a fine little touch up file and knocked off anything that resembled a burr but in hind sight I probably could have filed on it until everything went totally free but I remember thinking, "how do I know it's not supposed to be really close?" If it wasn't for having this issue I would have assumed it was supposed to be really close. Before I took any of the units out I air checked everything. When I got to the front clutch I could feel it engage and release...so I'm thinking "CRAP!!! I can't find anything wrong here. I still don't know how tight the fit should be between those ears and the lugs should be...probably close but room to move a little given that they planned for a "cushin" by way of the "cushin spring". I decided to wait to finish reassembly and installation till tomorrow. That way if anyone had any questions or advice it wouldn't be "too late...it's all installed". LOL
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-26 12:45 PM (#613812 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Nothing? I hoped someone would tell me how those ears were supposed to fit. The book doesn't tell you anything. Without people that know the answers we're flying blind.

I would say that they're supposed to move up and down a without much resistance but I guess we'll see if my trans works. I would say mark them before you take the shaft and plate out of the clutch because it's really easy to loose track of where it was and put it back in the same place otherwise you're going to find it hard to get it back to the same ear and tang and in the mean time you'll probably add burs in the process like I probably did.

Maybe it's typical that it's a loose fit and I'm the only one having a problem with it...again, I just really don't know.
All I can do is try it but I'm going to be really bummed if it doesn't work.

Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-26 12:54 PM
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wizard
Posted 2021-07-26 4:31 PM (#613816 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Actually there is a snug fit and there will not be much movement there. Install the lock ring so that the ends is between two slots. The problem is not there.
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 4:52 AM (#613824 - in reply to #613816)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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wizard - 2021-07-26 4:31 PM

The problem is not there.


I give up...where then?
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westaus29
Posted 2021-07-27 9:57 AM (#613825 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...


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I sympathise with your continuing problem. A while back I posted you a link to some techo info but it was screwed , like much of the Imperial website seems to be. After some experimenting I managed to link to the master technicians torqueflite service page
https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Lit/Master/113/index.html (had to change "htm" to "html")

From there if you click on "front cover" you can work your way thru the booklet by clicking on "go to page 2" and so on.
The rest of the links on the index page dont work, give 404 error, but if you edit the page 404 address by changing "page" to "Page" you can go to a section
How to build up the front clutch is
https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Lit/Master/113/Page23.htm

Hope this is of help.
Whoever messed it up did a good job!!!

Just added this on torqueflie service tips. Links on this page work!!
https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Lit/Master/129/index.html

Edited by westaus29 2021-07-27 10:03 AM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 10:39 AM (#613826 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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No effin (freeking) way! That is so awesome! Thank you so much! I can't remember what I saw if and when I checked it out before but I'll go in the house and check it out right now so I don't have to do it from my phone. Pain in the zzz! I was JUST getting ready to pour fluid in. The gasket that came with the rebuild kit tolerated several on's and off's before it turned to mush. This one won't hold up very well either... it's just paper from my roommate s job about.020 thick...works in a pinch.

I took everything out and freed up the front clutch "pressure plate" and look over everything to see if I could find anything that looked out of place. I couldn't find anything other than the pressure plate really only will fit right in one spot. Any other it it's just tighter then heck. I kinda lucked into figuring that out, Anyway, I hope the hell that solves the problem. The check ball was fine.

Thanks again,

Wayne


Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-27 10:47 AM
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wizard
Posted 2021-07-27 11:03 AM (#613827 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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What's the free-play in the front clutch? The correct free-play is very important, to Little will make the trans drive in N and lock i R
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 12:21 PM (#613828 - in reply to #613827)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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The book says .020" to .040" and that page I just looked at said the same thing. When I had my problem and took it back apart I measured it and it came out to about .049" or so. I wouldn't think that would be enough extra to cause it to drive in low while in Neutral and Lock up in reverse but I wasn't taking any chances. I picked through every friction I had until I came up with .036". I wish I could have had it come out to .026" but there was only so much I could do. The frictions they send in a rebuild kit SHOULD work but sometimes you wish they could have sent a few over and under sized steels to help dial in that clearance correctly. I got it to good enough...well within tolerance, correct according to the book... whatever you want to call it.

But I would have been way more comfortable with .026".

So anyway, I'm about to go pour fluid.

If anyone has some last minute information or a recommendation call me.

Wayne (810) 875-2939

Thanks to everyone.

Wish me luck!
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wizard
Posted 2021-07-27 2:22 PM (#613833 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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That clearance will work. Did you check the clutches with compressed air? There should be a solid "thump" withot any hissing
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 2:26 PM (#613834 - in reply to #613833)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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The only way I could see to air test the front clutch was after the accumulator was in which meant the valve body was in meaning the hole to test it with was covered by the valve body. I looked at the clutch drum to try to test it individually but there were three holes. So I guess to answer your question, no, I didn't not see a way to test the front clutch. The rear, yes. Thud!
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 2:46 PM (#613835 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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It's still doing the same thing. I guess I'll watch more videos, take it apart over and over, waste trans fluid. I was thinking about taking it back apart and taking the front clutch assembly and swinging it over my head like a sledge hammer until there are no recognizable pieces left LOL

I just don't get it. How do you have the correct clearance, a check ball that's functioning correctly, assembled correctly with all brand new stuff and yet it still won't work?

Obviously I'm overlooking something. I wish something was broken so I could see what I needed to do. Unbelievable!

Well, I slept all day yesterday because it was so hot and worked all night. It's getting pretty miserable out there now, I guess it's time to get some sleep..

Thanks to everyone that tried to help.



Edited by jaded13640 2021-07-27 2:53 PM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 3:47 PM (#613836 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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So what would be the difference between measuring the clearance the way it says in the book, stuff a feeler gauge under the pressure plate and evidently the pressure plate butts against the snap ring and that's your number vs. holding down your pressure plate and measuring the amount of clearance between the pressure plate and the snap ring? I've ONLY used the second method on anything. Logically, how could the two different ways come up with a different over all clearance amount?
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wizard
Posted 2021-07-27 4:39 PM (#613837 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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It's ok to measure between the lock ring.

Now, make a piece of plate and drill two holes so that you can block the accumulator, then you can check the front clutch with compressed air and also check if the fron clutch engages when you test the rear clutch.

Best would be a round lid with a rubber gasket.

If you do this test and can confirm that both clutches works without leaks or interferance rear/front, then the problem must be in the valve body.

A stuck shuttle valve could perhaps be the reason?
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-07-27 5:56 PM (#613838 - in reply to #613837)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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wizard - 2021-07-27 1:39 PM
If you do this test and can confirm that both clutches works without leaks or interferance rear/front, then the problem must be in the valve body.
A stuck shuttle valve could perhaps be the reason?


Shuttle Valve: Item 21



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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-27 6:55 PM (#613839 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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When blocking the accumulator, do I install the accumulator and the spring then my homemade plate?

As for the shuttle valve, the two other times I checked out the valve bodies NOTHING was stuck, sticky, showed evidence of wearing funny in the bore....NOTHING.
Everything was where it was supposed to be and moving freely. I'll of course check again.
Also, that diagram is different from mine. Mine doesn't have the parts 38, 39 and 40. Probably a later model maybe? Oh, wow, there's a lot of differences. Mine has three separate valve bodies...anyway, thanks for putting it for the pictorial.
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wizard
Posted 2021-07-28 12:46 AM (#613841 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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The spring is not needed, put a plastic pipe to hold down the accumulator piston in the bottom position
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-07-28 10:10 AM (#613844 - in reply to #599609)
Subject: Re: 57 Dodge Suburban trans rebuild time...



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Understood.
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