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59 saratoga
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-10 3:14 PM (#601880)
Subject: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

Hi,, looking for info on the saratoga 1959 4 door. One popped up on a western regional crags list, and it looked interesting.. I'm a sucker for big boats,,, but no noting of the chrysler line.

that year, the ad says,,,(,With The Golden Lion 383 tall block and 727 push button automatic trans. It runs and drives great. Has new dual exhaust, hoses, brake work, 4Bbl carb is rebuilt, New tires and wheels. )

the question is,,, are these year engines serviceable, are parts avaialbe for trans, engine, etc.... not so much worried about exterior or interior at this point, but the ability to fix it when it becomes necessary.

I currently have a 63 cadillac and a 73 eldo convert, so i have some working knowledge of cars and getting a little better at it,, but as noted, i dont know anything about chrysler,, parts, etc.

so if anyone can give me a what to look for, what to listen for and any knowledge about this model year engine it would be greatly appreciated
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57plymouth
Posted 2020-08-10 4:04 PM (#601883 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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The tall deck 383 is an oddball. Parts are available, but not exactly common. Also if you are used to GM products, you will be very surprised when you look for parts. There are not many reproduction parts. These cars also rust. A lot. I had a 59 Chrysler with a 383 that was a rust bucket. I bought it for parts, but ended up selling it for what I had in it. Restoring a Forward Look car is something you do because you love the car. You are extremely unlikely to get back your investment.
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-10 5:00 PM (#601887 - in reply to #601883)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

oh,, thanks for the warning,, sure looks like a neat car though with the swivel buckets, just plain big,,,

thanks again,
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1960fury
Posted 2020-08-10 6:28 PM (#601893 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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Basically the RB-383 is a 413/440 with a smaller bore and the Mopar Bigblocks are the epitome of dependability. Only the pistons are "oddball", all the rest is easy to find and chances are that you will need nothing. Also, if you are used to GM, you will be surprised how great these old Mopars ride. These positive things should be mentioned too.
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-10 11:37 PM (#601910 - in reply to #601893)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

well throw a wrench into the matter!!! thanks for the positive input,,, i may go give her a look,, out of nothing else,, curiosity,, i really like the big boats and the period that is lost...
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firedome
Posted 2020-08-11 12:35 PM (#601927 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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Sid is right, handling is light years ahead of any GM circa the same era, the Mopar Torquflite trans is superior, and dependability (a Dodge ad coined word) is at least as good as anyone at the time. Body and trim fit and availability is another story.
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-14 5:25 PM (#602052 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

SO in the end.... can the engine/trans be rebuilt, can the parts be found,, that in the final analysis, that is what i need to be able to sort out,, i drive my cars, a lot, and really dont want one that just sits on blocks, waiting on a 40 dollar part,,,, I'm going to make the fatal mistake of going to look at it,, but would like to know that final fact for sure, before i go throwing cash at it,,, need to know the variables
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ram300
Posted 2020-08-14 10:28 PM (#602067 - in reply to #602052)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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Of course they can, many parts come up on this network alone, I'd say go for it, unless you're one of those GM restorers that sits on the couch armed with a catalogue and check book waiting for everything to come to them.

From some well known movie (cant remember which :-) LETS MOTIVATE

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57chizler
Posted 2020-08-15 1:35 PM (#602088 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: RE: 59 saratoga



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73Eldorado - 2020-08-10 12:14 PM
the ad says,,,(,With The Golden Lion 383 tall block and 727 push button automatic trans.


If it's the original engine/trans, the transmission is a A466 not a 727.
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-15 6:05 PM (#602097 - in reply to #602067)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

no,, just not experienced enough with cars to know,, I've only been tinkering with this new hobby as a 60 year old for about 4 years..and the more i learn, the more i become cautious. the term a little knowledge can be dangerous fits me perfectly. i know just enough, but really nothing, so, i have to ask the experienced in the different models...and makers.. as none are clearly the same expect made of metal..

the 73eldo convert i wouldnt have touched now,,,, thought i was being smart in my shopping,, but boy did i learn,, that is why i am asking these seemingly simple questions,,,

again, though, thanks for the information,,,,still planning to go over to see monday, if its still available

Edited by 73Eldorado 2020-08-15 6:06 PM
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-21 11:38 PM (#602387 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

ok,, so i drove the 3 hours to look at this car,, seemed ok, looked underneath, no real big chunks of rust on frame, only part of visible body is on rear passenger quarter,, about a little finger hole of rust,, other wise,, just surface occasionally but no other signs of real rot or heavy rust,,,,

the car started up quickly, we drove,, rode good.. going 75 on a 2lane road made me real nervous with no seat belts..also, had dual exhaust with glass packs,, so you really couldnt hear engine due to those darn things,,,, that aside,,,
when you push the power brake,, you hear a little hiss, press the brake, it hisses,, let up, goes away,, thoughts on that?
and back to the brakes,, couple big ole boxes on there for that,, not the smaller version of later things, like a round boosters that I'm used to seeing.. . would this be something hard to replace if damaged or needing repair?

power steering seemed ok.

engine seemed pretty clean,, rebuilt 4 barrel, had a 383 plate on it on front, still has original red lion keys!!

transmission buttons.....the R N D buttons i think due to age and use, you push in and they can, if not careful, hang behind the panel..he had a tiny screw driver there in the window in case it got hung, the 1st and 2nd dont do that because I'm sure it was probably not or rarely used so you didn't get the wear. they protruded about a eighth or so inch, while the main buttons were flush,, is that a simple fix? are there some sort of replacement rods that you can use or get ...,, i would just cal it wear,,

the turn signal return switch, I'm guessing has been worn down, it does work, but yo have to push it back up as the steering wheel, as it returns to strait,, wont pop it loose to send it into its neutral position,,,are there replacemetn parts of r the steering column to fix that??

those were the main things i was aware of, or he showed me,, it probably needs shocks,, i know i would remove those noisy ass glass packs,,(seen not heard), interior needs work, but not awful, mainly the driver side,, needs a dash pad,, door panels were nice, except driver, as I'm sure due to wear of the elbow resting on the pad and rubbing the panel,,

all the hoses, fuel lines, etc have been replaced,,,,he explained the water pump is very easy to change, just pull the four bolts behind the fan,, he is a mopar man, has a 63 satellite and 64 fury in garage for drag racing, VERY LOUD when he started. you could feel it pound your chest when he reved the drag cars!!

so the main items listed above,, transmission buttons, power brakes, steering column with turn switch,, are this all easily repaired or replaced with parts,,
again, i just dont know about chryslers, and dont want to get it, have it sit up months waiting on or chasing parts,, i like to use and drive,,,,

again, thanks for any thoughts.
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Islander 62
Posted 2020-08-22 1:38 AM (#602393 - in reply to #602387)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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73Eldorado - 2020-08-21 8:38 PM

ok,, so i drove the 3 hours to look at this car,, seemed ok, looked underneath, no real big chunks of rust on frame, only part of visible body is on rear passenger quarter,, about a little finger hole of rust,, other wise,, just surface occasionally but no other signs of real rot or heavy rust,,,,

the car started up quickly, we drove,, rode good.. going 75 on a 2lane road made me real nervous with no seat belts..also, had dual exhaust with glass packs,, so you really couldnt hear engine due to those darn things,,,, that aside,,,
when you push the power brake,, you hear a little hiss, press the brake, it hisses,, let up, goes away,, thoughts on that?
and back to the brakes,, couple big ole boxes on there for that,, not the smaller version of later things, like a round boosters that I'm used to seeing.. . would this be something hard to replace if damaged or needing repair?

power steering seemed ok.

engine seemed pretty clean,, rebuilt 4 barrel, had a 383 plate on it on front, still has original red lion keys!!

transmission buttons.....the R N D buttons i think due to age and use, you push in and they can, if not careful, hang behind the panel..he had a tiny screw driver there in the window in case it got hung, the 1st and 2nd dont do that because I'm sure it was probably not or rarely used so you didn't get the wear. they protruded about a eighth or so inch, while the main buttons were flush,, is that a simple fix? are there some sort of replacement rods that you can use or get ...,, i would just cal it wear,,

the turn signal return switch, I'm guessing has been worn down, it does work, but yo have to push it back up as the steering wheel, as it returns to strait,, wont pop it loose to send it into its neutral position,,,are there replacemetn parts of r the steering column to fix that??

those were the main things i was aware of, or he showed me,, it probably needs shocks,, i know i would remove those noisy ass glass packs,,(seen not heard), interior needs work, but not awful, mainly the driver side,, needs a dash pad,, door panels were nice, except driver, as I'm sure due to wear of the elbow resting on the pad and rubbing the panel,,

all the hoses, fuel lines, etc have been replaced,,,,he explained the water pump is very easy to change, just pull the four bolts behind the fan,, he is a mopar man, has a 63 satellite and 64 fury in garage for drag racing, VERY LOUD when he started. you could feel it pound your chest when he reved the drag cars!!

so the main items listed above,, transmission buttons, power brakes, steering column with turn switch,, are this all easily repaired or replaced with parts,,
again, i just dont know about chryslers, and dont want to get it, have it sit up months waiting on or chasing parts,, i like to use and drive,,,,

again, thanks for any thoughts.


Sounds like a not too bad Saratoga, everything you describe is pretty much typical wear and tear.....the hiss in the brake is the booster, on the firewall of course.. on top of the brake master. It's either a solid oval can or a flexible bellows unit that are available as rebuilds from 'Booster Dewey' in Portland Oregon........the push buttons and control box that they fit into are common to a number of Chryslers and usually respond to a good clean and lube....make sure they're aligned and moving freely..signal light switches are common to most mopars of the era and shouldn't be too hard to find.....someone on here could likely help....good idea about the glass packs, get them gone...sounds like a nice 383.....
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-24 9:32 PM (#602504 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: RE: 59 saratoga


Member

Posts: 9

still working on this car purchase,, a couple things came to mind.

i was searching for some parts,,, alternator,, water pump,,starters,, you know, things that do go out eventually, , on rock auto, and a couple generic part sites,, but was not able to find anything available on any of the above items..

is there a site that is chrylesler specific or, or mopar specific or can other model parts from other chryslers of different years be interchanged with this engine.

thanks

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1960fury
Posted 2020-08-25 7:46 AM (#602520 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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These cars still had generators but can be very easily changed to alternators of any make. The B engines started in Sept 57 and lasted to the late 70s, millions were produced and parts are everywhere. In fact the blocks/heads, etc are still produced today. Water pumps, for instance, all interchange and are everywhere, cast iron or aluminum. Google water pump Mopar/Chrysler 440 or 383, or search on ebay.
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1960fury
Posted 2020-08-25 8:12 AM (#602523 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l131...
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1960fury
Posted 2020-08-25 8:20 AM (#602524 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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As for starting motors, even these are available new but do not really belong to the parts that need frequent replacing. I have the habbit to crank my 383 when cold until oil pressure is there, before I activate the choke, that really stresses the starter. I do that for over 30 years almost daily driving and my car (over 340K miles) only has the second started since new and the part that failed wasn't the motor, it was only the starter drive, which is realitevely easy to find.
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Suddenlyits1960!
Posted 2020-08-25 9:18 AM (#602530 - in reply to #602067)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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ram300 - 2020-08-14 10:28 PM

Of course they can, many parts come up on this network alone, I'd say go for it, unless you're one of those GM restorers that sits on the couch armed with a catalogue and check book waiting for everything to come to them.

From some well known movie (cant remember which :-) LETS MOTIVATE



If you’re referencing “Christine”,the term Arnie used was “Motorvate” (slang for drive). Chuck Berry used the word in “maybelline”
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Suddenlyits1960!
Posted 2020-08-25 9:26 AM (#602531 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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I’d say if you like the Chrysler,and it’s solid and runs and drives well,go for it! It’s no problem getting a generator or starter rebuilt if/when that needs to be done. Or you can do what lots of us do and buy spares so they are handy when you need them and can be swapped out right away. As 1960Fury and others have pointed out,these cars are usually very mechanically reliable. The Torqueflite was considered to be the best automatic there was at the time. The biggest issues with these cars tends to be rust.

Edited by Suddenlyits1960! 2020-08-25 10:10 AM
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-25 2:46 PM (#602560 - in reply to #602531)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

thanks for all the comments.... if parts are available,, i can t take stuff apart and put together,, but the rust ....i have NO welding skills, no equip, and while there is about a little finger hole in the rear panel behind the wheel, and the carpet has been pulled and it all feels pretty solid,, but, again, lack of experience is holding me up, may make the 3 hour trip one more time to get feel for the rust,,



i consider these old cars more art than machine, and i like to display art,, (driving around regularly)

again, thanks for the help
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73Eldorado
Posted 2020-08-26 2:43 AM (#602580 - in reply to #602560)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga


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Posts: 9

if rust is a problem, how do yall go about retarding it,, besides cutting it out, what are your mitigation efforts going forward,

i did some reading last night, and its all over the place, use rubberized, dont use rubberized as it can trap moisture, but it seems some sort of oil or enamel paint or wd 40 type oil spray treat ment were most popular,, so what s been found to keep things under control over here
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Viper Guy
Posted 2020-08-26 6:38 PM (#602610 - in reply to #601880)
Subject: Re: 59 saratoga



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Sorry to say there is no "band-aid" approach to fixing rust permanently. If the rust is more than surface rust, which can be removed in order to save the clean metal, it has to be removed and patches placed on rust free metal and then sealed against any type of moisture/contaminants that can attack metal. However you did mention retarding the rust which can be done to a degree with some chemicals and retardants but as long as contaminants can reach the area, and they will, the rust will continue. It's just a matter of time.
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