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No more points?
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1955NYer
Posted 2020-08-19 11:40 PM (#602299)
Subject: No more points?


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Posts: 18

Hi,

I have seen these convertors to get rid of points. Most are for 12v systems, my 55 New Yorker I believe is a 6V system. Do these exist for 6V?
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-08-20 1:05 AM (#602301 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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I put Pertronix in my '64 Dodge and it worked fine until it didn't when I was on a camping trip. Of course I didn't keep the old parts in my glove box because people said that it was flawless and would never break. Ended up having to buy a rebuilt distributor from a parts store since I was away from home. Now I just stick with points. With the amount of driving we do with these old cars it's not worth it to me.

Edited by NicksGarage 2020-08-20 10:22 AM
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wizard
Posted 2020-08-20 1:43 AM (#602303 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Pertronix seems to be like 50% are good and 50% are bad. I tested a Pertronix in my '60 Saratoga and I couldn't even test-drive the car - I then renovated the dizzy and installed a concentric breaker-plate - runs very good now.

I have a breaker point electronic ignition box that I want to test (breaker points works only as potential free contacts). The capacitor needs to be removed and one extra wire installed. Keep the capacitor in the car and the system can be reversed to normal breaker points quickly if the box should fail.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-08-20 2:05 AM (#602304 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Points are OK, only if you use dual point distributors. Single points don't last long enough. You'll be replacing them every 5-10k miles and the car runs like crap during the last part of that until you figure out what the problem is. Running 6 volts is even worse because you need more current with less voltage. Current burns the points. Unfortunately, I think the best solution is to either live with the 6volt system as designed, or upgrade the whole thing to 12 volts and install an electronic ignition. I prefer the latter.

I designed an HEI conversion for Mopar electronic distributors and use it on all my cars. I've never had a single failure on over 100k combined miles between them.

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Mopar1
Posted 2020-08-20 9:37 AM (#602314 - in reply to #602304)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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On the 331 you can use an electronic LA dizzy if you install an extended int. shaft. HH or QEC. Or extend the dizzy shaft.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-08-20 9:45 AM (#602315 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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I've had no problems with Pertronix in a couple of cars, but have heard of others having them.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2020-08-20 12:36 PM (#602326 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Location: Under the X in Texas
Yes there are 6V Pertronix units. I've only had one of those. Been using Pertronics units in my cars for for some 25 years now. NO PROBLEMS at all.
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Shep
Posted 2020-08-20 5:29 PM (#602336 - in reply to #602326)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
Important to use carbon resistor wires, not steel core.
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b5rt
Posted 2020-08-20 9:01 PM (#602345 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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I run points in both my cars. Granted the DeSoto doesn't put many miles on it but the 69 R/T does. I run Blue Streak points/condenser with a new coil. The last set of point were changed out because they had 12,000 miles on them and one side had more material pulled from the other.... probably because I had been running the original 49 year old coil! An extra set of points and condenser are in the glove box along with a ballast resistor for the last 27 years and I've never had to pull them out. Total out of pocket is around $15. Cheap insurance.
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1955NYer
Posted 2020-08-23 4:20 PM (#602441 - in reply to #602314)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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Posts: 18

Mopar1 - 2020-08-20 9:37 AM

On the 331 you can use an electronic LA dizzy if you install an extended int. shaft. HH or QEC. Or extend the dizzy shaft.


No idea what you are referring to...... new to the game here.
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mobileparts
Posted 2020-08-24 12:07 AM (#602450 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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Depending on your age, you may only need one (1) more tune up the rest
of your life, with Quality Points, Condenser, Rotor, and Cap...
Why mess with Chineseum pertronix which is a 50 - 50 % proposition
at Best ?!?!?
I have Quality made U.S.A. made Ignition Parts for you --- and Most
1955 Chrysler's DID have Dual Points......

Always best to simply call me --- Craig --- 516 - 485 - 1935... New York...
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Mike P
Posted 2020-08-24 6:46 AM (#602462 - in reply to #602450)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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I have Pertronix on a couple cars and so far have had good luck with them. I was a little leery the first time I went cross country (AZ to IL) using one but it made that trip and 2 more with no problems.

The Chrysler cast iron distributors can be converted Electronic (12V) by using a later small block breaker plate, reluctor, pickup, upper shaft and vacuum advance. One additional hole needs to be drilled in the distributor housing for one of the breaker plate retaining screws. You’ll need to use the later 56 and up (tall) distributor cap and late model rotor. You will also have to use a Chrysler ignition box. Using your original distributor eliminates the issues of shaft length and replacement parts are usually readily available thru most part stores. On a side note the 56 and up cap also happens to be the same as used on the Mallory Unilite and dual point distributors.

My experience had been that the first Generation Chrysler HEMIs used dual point distributors and the Chrysler Polys (Spitfire 301, 331 and 354) got single point distributors. Whether single point or dual point the cast iron housing is the same.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-08-24 9:54 AM (#602464 - in reply to #602441)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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1955NYer - 2020-08-23 3:20 PM

Mopar1 - 2020-08-20 9:37 AM

On the 331 you can use an electronic LA dizzy if you install an extended int. shaft. HH or QEC. Or extend the dizzy shaft.


No idea what you are referring to...... new to the game here.
LA = 273/318/340/360, HH Hot Heads, Hothemiheads.com, QEC Quality Engeneered Components, "Wayfarer" here on the Board, AKA Gary. The LA shaft is shorter than the shaft on the 331/354 You can get a longer than stock Intermediate shaft, or lenthen the dizzy shaft with an extension, only problem with extendid the shaft is if the dizzy craps out a factory replacement won't reach.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-08-24 10:02 AM (#602465 - in reply to #602336)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Shep - 2020-08-20 4:29 PM

Important to use carbon resistor wires, not steel core.
That seems to be on the Pertronix II, I ran solid copper(?) wires for years with Pertronix I.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-08-24 10:15 AM (#602466 - in reply to #602462)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Mike P - 2020-08-24 3:46 AM
The Chrysler cast iron distributors can be converted Electronic (12V) by using a later small block breaker plate, reluctor, pickup, upper shaft and vacuum advance. One additional hole needs to be drilled in the distributor housing for one of the breaker plate retaining screws. You’ll need to use the later 56 and up (tall) distributor cap and late model rotor. You will also have to use a Chrysler ignition box. Using your original distributor eliminates the issues of shaft length and replacement parts are usually readily available thru most part stores. On a side note the 56 and up cap also happens to be the same as used on the Mallory Unilite and dual point distributors.

My experience had been that the first Generation Chrysler HEMIs used dual point distributors and the Chrysler Polys (Spitfire 301, 331 and 354) got single point distributors. Whether single point or dual point the cast iron housing is the same.


On a hemi motor, I'm not sure that would be worth the effort as the distributor is hard to see and using a later aluminum distributor would be quite a bit easier to do. But this is a great idea for a big block motor with the distributor so visible at the front of the motor. It would work great with an HEI module instead of the orange box too. Maybe I'll give it a shot on one of my DeSotos.
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1955NYer
Posted 2020-10-03 12:36 AM (#603923 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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Posts: 18

This has been a moxed bag of responses. Tackling the new booster and disc conversion first. Then may revisit this.
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1955NYer
Posted 2020-12-01 9:27 PM (#606242 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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Posts: 18

Anyone have any idea where the ballast resistor.is on a 55nyer?
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-12-01 11:24 PM (#606249 - in reply to #606242)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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1955NYer - 2020-12-01 6:27 PM
Anyone have any idea where the ballast resistor.is on a 55nyer?


Someone with more experience with 6V systems than me might correct me *BUT* after searching through the 55 Chrysler Factory Service Manual (FSM) pdf that I downloaded from MyMopar.com, and finding absolutely nothing about ballast resistors in FSM, my conclusion is that a 6V system did not require a ballast resistor. The voltage wasn't high enough to cause the problems that the 12V systems encountered before they added the ballast resistor.

Maybe?



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-12-02 1:48 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-12-01 11:53 PM (#606250 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Correct. No ballast required for 6 volt systems. The first ballast resistors were used in 1956 with the change in battery potential.
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Mikeb
Posted 2020-12-05 9:10 PM (#606434 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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I have had good results with Pertronix. One thing I have done is I use their coil. Then there is no question as to weather you need to bypass the ballast resistor or not. With their 'Flamethrower' coil you bypass the resistor. Have not had a problem when I do this.
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Mikeb
Posted 2020-12-05 9:10 PM (#606435 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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I have had good results with Pertronix. One thing I have done is I use their coil. Then there is no question as to weather you need to bypass the ballast resistor or not. With their 'Flamethrower' coil you bypass the resistor. Have not had a problem when I do this.
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ronbo97
Posted 2020-12-05 10:55 PM (#606437 - in reply to #606435)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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Dual Points on my 55 Desoto. 6V. No problems. It's been recommended that you find older stock, rather than brand new, which supposedly won't last. Old stock should last 15-20K. I wouldn't mess around with Pertronix, which can leave you stranded if it decides to quit all of a sudden.

Ron

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dels56
Posted 2020-12-31 3:44 PM (#607294 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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I picked up a dual point dizzy and converted it to Pertronics. From the outside it look stock. Had Canadian Carb in Port Coquitlam curve it for me. Now reading several threads on pertronics I will pretty up my original dizzy with a set of point and carry it with me, just in case.

Del
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Stroller
Posted 2021-01-01 10:41 AM (#607307 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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Stock distributor and all. I use blue streak with no problem. My '56 354 Hemi, '65 383, '71 318 and a '80 360. Set the right gap(s) keep a little file handy, or emery cloth. The 6v thing is an issue. Not enough voltage to distribute. Best thing is convert it to a 12v.
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hemidenis
Posted 2021-01-01 10:47 PM (#607324 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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I had petronix for years now, not problem at all. But I have to admit that i had problems starting the engine when hot with points or petronix.
I eventually noticed that i was running of spark but it was a problem with the ballast or sometimes the coil. However I keep the points and extra plate in the trunk.

These electronics devices work beautifully until they not, and also it is usually no warnings, they just quit. Unfortunately they are also too expensive to keep spares...

YOU DONT NEED THE BALLAST FOR THE PETRONIX BUT YOU NEED THE BALAST FOR THE COIL.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-01 11:32 PM (#607327 - in reply to #607324)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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hemidenis - 2021-01-01 7:47 PM
YOU DONT NEED THE BALLAST FOR THE PETRONIX BUT YOU NEED THE BALLAST FOR THE COIL.


Unless you also run the Pertronix Flamethrower Coil

http://www.pertronix.com.au/flame-thrower_coil_1.html











Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-01 11:34 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-02 2:37 AM (#607328 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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As your chart shows, the Ignitor I requires at least 1.5 ohms primary resistance (with a V8) to prevent it from burning up. This can come from an external ballast or from an internal ballast. This is an ignition module requirement, regardless of what coil you choose to use. The Ignitor II and III don't have this requirement so you can run them with very low primary resistance. The ignitor II is much like the GM HEI system in this respect.

Edited by Powerflite 2021-01-02 2:39 AM
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hemidenis
Posted 2021-01-02 11:00 PM (#607347 - in reply to #607327)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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you guys first of all need to read the instructions....It is all there and could save members in here a lot of time and headaches. The values on the chart ARE FOR THE COILS NOT THE BALLAST.

I remember now that the Ignitor 3 does not requires ballast of any type. I remember now that I bypassed mine when I changed from the orange Mopar box set up to Petronix, also as a recommended in the instruction keep you plate, points and condenser in the trunk.

READ THE INSTRUCTIONS FIRST!!!!!!






(petronix.jpg)



(petronix2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments petronix.jpg (155KB - 202 downloads)
Attachments petronix2.jpg (208KB - 204 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-02 11:54 PM (#607348 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?



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Who are you talking to Denis? Didn't I already say that 2 & 3 didn't require the ballast, and the chart that Dave posted up confirms this as well? I don't understand why you are harping on it after full confirmation. It is the Pertronix 1 that requires it, and it isn't just for the coil. It is for the Pertronix 1 module itself.
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dels56
Posted 2021-01-03 6:44 PM (#607383 - in reply to #602299)
Subject: Re: No more points?


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I have the Pertronic 1 as I purchased a long time ago, before 2 & 3. I have the Ballast resistor wired in as it should be with P 1 and the standard coil. My engine starts with less than a complete rev once warmed up but I have only had the car on the road once and it ran great there and back. Until I have a problem it stay as is and the spare dizzy in the trunk.

Del
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