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Veteran
Posts: 166
 
Location: Nebraska | What is the consensus on the best fluid to use in my 1958 Plymouth TorqueFlight?
Thanks! |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | I use Type F tranny fluid in my 57 Chrysler 300C and I get good crisp and firm shifts. Castrol makes some. |
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Veteran
Posts: 166
Location: Nebraska | Thanks! I appreciate the knowledge of an owner of the almighty C! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: Northwest Iowa |  HOLD ON BEFORE YOU USE THE {TYPE F} TRANS FLUID: :o
I was always led to believe using (type F ) was made for F**d and useing this transmission fluid in Chrysler or gm transmissions was a used car dealer trick to tighten up and get a more firm shift in a higher mileage car or one that has some slippage problems in the transmission.
The theory was that the Type F fluid was more acidic or had some additive of one sort or another and would swell the fiber plates in the clutch packs in Chrysler and gm procucts for a while,making the worn transmission shift and run better but after a period of time the fiber would start flaking off causing more problems.
 complete transmission rebuild
I have always used Dextron or Dextron II in my Chrysler transmissions>
:::: :::: :::: I hope someone else here can confirm this :::: :::: ::::
Good Luck:
J.W. Duhn
Edited by I GOT FINS 2005-10-03 11:59 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France |
I have always used Dextron or Dextron II in my Chrysler transmissions>
:::: :::: :::: I hope someone else here can confirm this :::: :::: ::::
Good Luck:
J.W. Duhn
I have the exact REVERSE statement from G. Riehl (Chrysler 300 club) who overhauled a lot of Tqf trannies.. Don't use Dexron but use type A fluid !! |
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | I've use (always have without a problem) Dexron, then Dexron II and now Dexron III. Dexron IV is used in the new MoPars. Mopar has been using Dexron for decades. |
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Veteran
Posts: 166
Location: Nebraska | Well...I appreciate all your input...anyone for ATF+3...or the newer ATF+4 from Mother MoPar? |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | I am using the Type-F on the recommendation of the very experienced vintage tranny rebuider that rebuilt my tranny. As I recall, it was also the consensus of the Chrysler 300 Club International member that have responded to similar questions. |
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Veteran
Posts: 296
Location: South Central PA | I have used type F for 35 yrs and wouldn't use anything else in a Torque flite,20 of those years saw a lot of drag strip use. |
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Veteran
Posts: 296
Location: South Central PA | I GOT FINS - 2005-10-03 11:57 PM
HOLD ON BEFORE YOU USE THE {TYPE F} TRANS FLUID: :o
I was always led to believe using (type F ) was made for F**d and useing this transmission fluid in Chrysler or gm transmissions was a used car dealer trick to tighten up and get a more firm shift in a higher mileage car or one that has some slippage problems in the transmission.
The theory was that the Type F fluid was more acidic or had some additive of one sort or another and would swell the fiber plates in the clutch packs in Chrysler and gm procucts for a while,making the worn transmission shift and run better but after a period of time the fiber would start flaking off causing more problems.
complete transmission rebuild
I have always used Dextron or Dextron II in my Chrysler transmissions>
:::: :::: :::: I hope someone else here can confirm this :::: :::: ::::
Good Luck:
J.W. Duhn
So you're saying F**d had their own friction disc material that would only be compatible with type F ?
Edited by 62 413 2005-10-05 8:26 PM
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Account Suspended (Steve Hobby Alias)
Posts: 3365
Location: North West Jorsey | We've had this debate many times over the years. My tranny guy said use Dextron. The old timer up in Oreegone that did my New Yorker also said to use Dextron. I guess it's all in who you talk to. Not taking sides, But I know there is a difference between the F and the Dextron 1, 2 and 3. By all standards, the cars came from the factory with an equal to Dex 1. Up until 20 years ago when Arthur and Ritus took my place at the Dodge dealer, That's all we ever used. At least for the 15 years I was there. But then again, I knew what a heat riser did then too. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: Northwest Iowa | Yes Bill:
Like I said in my response it is what I have always been led to believe that there was a difference in the composition of the fiber disks of Chrysler and F**d transmissions.
I did a google search and here is some of what I found:
an excerpt form:
http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,1398,1004010302%257C2025...
DEXRON-IIE and DEXRON-III are used in late-model GM automatic transmissions, as well as those of some other carmakers. Most late-model F**d vehicles use MERCON, but F**d products from the early 1980s back to the early 1960s used Type F fluid. Type F should not be substituted for MERCON fluid in a current F**d transmission. In fact, if MERCON is unavailable, DEXRON-IIE is an acceptable substitute. Chrysler automatics use MOPAR ATF-PLUS, but DEXRON-IIE can be used if the MOPAR fluid is unavailable.
and:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_T...
Mobil ATF Type F is not recommended for automatic transmissions in F**d, General Motors, Chrysler, American Motors, or any other cars requiring a Dexron-II, Dexron-IIE, Dexron-III or Mercon-approved fluid, or for those F**d products requiring an M2C138CJ
(Type CJ) fluid or an M2C166H (Type H) fluid. For the above applications, Mobil ATF D/M (Dexron/Mercon) or Mobil Multi-Vehicle ATF are recommended.
Everyone can do what they wish but being an old school type of guy I am still going to go along with the advise of the old mechanic that told me this, and I will continue to use DextronII in my Torqueflite tranmissions.
This man was a very knowledgeable mechanic from the 50s 60s and 70s and he taught me a lot about cars, he was a very good Friend for many years even though he prefered an Oldsmobile to drive, and he was not real fond of Chrysler procucts, but he really disliked F**ds.
J.W. Duhn
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Account Suspended (Steve Hobby Alias)
Posts: 3365
Location: North West Jorsey | You Duhn good on gathering that info. I'm not a fluid expert. . . Thanks! J.W. Maybe I missed what you were saying. Did you imply that the early tourqueflites (A466) had an equal to type F packed in them from the factory? Or did I mis-read that? Those being before my time in my professional times, are a gray area for me. I do know the aluminum trans's from 62 on up to 85 had Dextron in them. Or Mopars equivelent |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i was told by JIM McCLURE of McCLURE transmissions in BRIDGEPORT, OHIO to use DEXRON ll------he was in business for 42 yrs. before recently retiring BUT my owners manual says TYPE A------------later |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: Northwest Iowa | SORRY:
I was interrupted in my posting last nite and did not include my initial point , which is:
the car manufactures have developed different fluids for their own application, in one of the articles , even the F**d motor company does not recommend that type F and Mercon fluid be substituted for one another.
(My common sense tells me there is a difference in the two )
and that one should use what ever is recommended for their cars application according to the owners manual
My 57 Plymouth's owners manual recommends type A for both the powerflite and the torqueflite automatic transmission.
As far as I can find out is that type A fluid was phased out and Dextron was introduced to replace it:
J.W. Duhn |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7395
Location: northern germany | i've used dexron type 3 for about 110 000 miles in my 60 fury and about 30 000 miles in my girlfriends 61 desoto. never had any problems. but i think i'll try synthetic atf in the future. |
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | From what I know, or have been told, Type A was replaced by Dexron. Remember, Dexron II is MoPar ATF+2, Dexron III is MoPar ATF+3, etc.
Pop told me at an early driving age "NEVER put Type F (F**damatic) in the Plymouth!" |
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Veteran
Posts: 228
Location: Centerville, SD | There is an article at http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html that pertains mostly to 4spd auto chrysler transmissions. It specifically states DO NOT use Dexron. After reading this I only use the atf +4 or amsoil synthetic in my newer stuff. It goes on to say atf +3 is suitable for ALL older automatics. Having said that, I have currently type F in my 59 iron tflight, and all seems fine, but the next time it is changed, I think I will go to ATF+3. Just my 2 cents. |
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Veteran
Posts: 166
Location: Nebraska | Thank you so much for all the good information.
So it seems like the general consensus is Dextron...which replaced the factory recommended Type A...and MoPar ATF+2 is Dextron II and MoPar ATF+3 is Dextron III - So ATF+3? Am I distilling all this accurately? |
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Veteran
Posts: 296
Location: South Central PA | I GOT FINS - 2005-10-05 11:45 PM
Yes Bill:
Like I said in my response it is what I have always been led to believe that there was a difference in the composition of the fiber disks of Chrysler and F**d transmissions.
I did a google search and here is some of what I found:
an excerpt form:
http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,1398,1004010302%257C2025...
DEXRON-IIE and DEXRON-III are used in late-model GM automatic transmissions, as well as those of some other carmakers. Most late-model F**d vehicles use MERCON, but F**d products from the early 1980s back to the early 1960s used Type F fluid. Type F should not be substituted for MERCON fluid in a current F**d transmission. In fact, if MERCON is unavailable, DEXRON-IIE is an acceptable substitute. Chrysler automatics use MOPAR ATF-PLUS, but DEXRON-IIE can be used if the MOPAR fluid is unavailable.
and:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_T...
Mobil ATF Type F is not recommended for automatic transmissions in F**d, General Motors, Chrysler, American Motors, or any other cars requiring a Dexron-II, Dexron-IIE, Dexron-III or Mercon-approved fluid, or for those F**d products requiring an M2C138CJ
(Type CJ ) fluid or an M2C166H (Type H ) fluid. For the above applications, Mobil ATF D/M (Dexron/Mercon ) or Mobil Multi-Vehicle ATF are recommended.
Everyone can do what they wish but being an old school type of guy I am still going to go along with the advise of the old mechanic that told me this, and I will continue to use DextronII in my Torqueflite tranmissions.
This man was a very knowledgeable mechanic from the 50s 60s and 70s and he taught me a lot about cars, he was a very good Friend for many years even though he prefered an Oldsmobile to drive, and he was not real fond of Chrysler procucts, but he really disliked F**ds.
J.W. Duhn
Right out of the Chrysler racing manual.That's why i have always used it.
 (MVC-071S.JPG)
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 MVC-071S.JPG (36KB - 195 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | Don't mean to get off the subject, but that Allpar page goes to alot of trouble just say that the MoPar 4 speed automatics are (or at least were) junk. You guys wouldn't believe how many of the '89-97 we used to stock for warranty replacement. The ATF+4 is supposedly slippier. I wouldn't use it in anything older than a '98.
As for our old jalopies, Dexron II IS ATF+2, etc. I'll just stick with the Dexron, I started driving in '77 and I have NEVER had a problem with it my MoPars, all eighteen of 'em. 
I guess now its just a matter of preference, Dexron, MoPar ATF or Type F. Sounds like no one has had any problem with these. We could all just agree to disagree
Smells like a poll.....
Edited by forwardlookparts 2005-10-06 10:53 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 228
Location: Centerville, SD | If you read the Allpar article, ATF+... is not Dexron.... This is important with the 4spd lockups. As far as the 3spd, if you like to put you foot into it and run through the gears, Type F, for daily driver, Dexron or ATF+3. ATF+4 would probably take out your seals. |
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Member
Posts: 21
| As plypete said ATF+3 is NOT Dexron. It's much more slippery and was designed specifically for the 4-speed automatics in the early 90's. ATF+3 was recently replaced by ATF+4 just recently. An article I read recently (might have been Allpar, don't remember now) showed that ATF+4 was designed to have very similar or identical performance characteristics but due to the longer service intervals was designed to last longer (additive packages, fluid breakdown, sludge formation, etc.). Bottom line is ATF+4 can be used for ATF+3, the only difference is that ATF+4 will last longer and protect better. Heck, my new 05 Magnum with the Mercedes sourced 5-speed auto uses ATF+4 and no transmission dipstick.
I think I'd go with Dexron myself, it was the universal fluid for many years in addition to being easiest to find should you need some on the road. ATF +3/4 would be too thin/slippery I think and is tougher to find when needed. |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Bill - is that the MoPar racing manual with the green cover? If not, can you pass me the title?
I did a lot of googling and research on this one when I discovered that, regardless of what the manual says, no one seems to make or carry Type A anymore. Since most of my research was off the internet you can take this with a grain as you like. Everything I found says Dexron is the suitable substitute for Type A and is pretty much a Type A equivalent with some antiwear additives. I'd have to second the motion for Dexron on the street and Type F on the strip. If I was gonna' do both, I would personally lean towards the Dexron, but that's just me. |
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Expert
Posts: 3776
Location: NorCal | I GOT FINS - 2005-10-03 8:57 PM
I was always led to believe using (type F ) was made for F**d and useing this transmission fluid in Chrysler or gm transmissions was a used car dealer trick to tighten up and get a more firm shift in a higher mileage car or one that has some slippage problems in the transmission.
The theory was that the Type F fluid was more acidic or had some additive of one sort or another and would swell the fiber plates in the clutch packs in Chrysler and gm procucts for a while,making the worn transmission shift and run better but after a period of time the fiber would start flaking off causing more problems.
The difference in Type F has nothing to do with "swelling the plates", Type F simply has a more aggressive coefficient of friction (meaning it is less slippery) and therefore will make the friction components like clutches and bands grab with less slippage.
Dexron is the replacement fluid for the old Type A that was recommended for the iron Torqueflite. This would be the factory recommended fluid for the TF.
The newer ATF+ fluids are formulated for lockup torque converters and help prevent lockup clutch chatter. These fluids provide better lubrication but at the cost of slightly more slippage on engagement. The +3 and +4 fluids are formulated for overdrive transmissions whose planetary gears are in nearly constant use and need the extra lubrication. 3-speed automatics use the planetaries in only the lower gears and don't need the extra lubrication qualities.
Everything is a compromise, if you want the longest possible life with smooth operation, Dexron or the plus fluid is what you want. If you prefer firmer shifts with slightly less longevity, Type F is for you. |
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TorqueFlight Fluid
