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WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-20 1:25 PM (#607909)
Subject: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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Shocking. Un- Freaking - believable but supposedly true.

In 0-60 tests at Dayton Beach, the 327 AMC V8-equipped Rambler Rebel was the fastest sedan that they tested. The competition included an Oldsmobile with the hot 300-hp, 371-cu.in. V-8 with three two-barrel carbs; a supercharged 289-cu.in., 275-hp Studebaker Golden Hawk; a 290-hp Pontiac Tri-Power 347-cu.in. V-8; a 300-hp supercharged Ford and Thunderbird; a hot Chrysler 300C with a 392-cu.in. dual-quad V-8 ; a 345-cu.in., 345-hp dual-quad De Soto Adventurer; a Plymouth Fury with a dual-quad 318 producing 290 hp; two Dodges, including a D-500 powered by a Red Ram 325 that made 285 hp, and a D-500-1 with dual quads and 310 hp ; and a Mercury Monterey M-335 pushing 335 hp from its 368-cu.in. V-8.

The Rebel's best 0-60-mph run was timed at 7.5 seconds, while the Chrysler 300C ran 7.6 seconds. But consider such legendary muscle cars as the Studebaker Golden Hawk's 8.7 seconds, or the blown T-Bird's 8.0 seconds, and you can appreciate what the AMC engineers were able to accomplish on a shoestring. Other results included the Plymouth Fury at 8.0 seconds, the Dodge D-500 at 8.8 seconds, and the Pontiac Tri-Power at 7.9 seconds. The only car that could beat the Rebel in acceleration was a fuel-injected Corvette, which did the run in 7.0 seconds to become the fastest American car, while the Rebel was the fastest American sedan.

Oh the humanity!!!



REFERENCE: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1957-rambler-rebel-2


Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-20 2:20 PM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-01-20 2:00 PM (#607911 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the fastest US made sedan in 57?



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I wouldn't say fastest, but quickest. Fastest would indicate top speed, not time to accelerate to 60 mph. I would assume that the AMC had a favorable weight and/or gear ratio. The AMC would also win ugliest.

Very interesting nonetheless.

Edited by jboymechanic 2021-01-20 2:01 PM
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LostDeere59
Posted 2021-01-20 2:18 PM (#607912 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: RE: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the fastest US made sedan in 57?



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In that arena - 0-60 - its all about weight and gearing.

I'd be curious to see the specifications of the cars they actually tested. I'm betting the Rambler was lighter by a significant amount, and was probably geared much steeper. I don't know about 1957, or that particular model, but Rambler was big into overdrives, and as a result often marketed cars with much higher numerical gearing than the norm at the time.

As an example back in the late 80's a friend of mine and I acquired a 75 or 76 full size Chevrolet station wagon with a 454 in it. All we did was put a 2 1/2 inch dual exhaust on it, and put a set of 4:56 gears in the rear, welded the spiders, and put some cheap sticky tires on the stock rims. That car would walk anything from a traffic light to about 50-60mph - which is about all you really see when cruising around looking for trouble. It was a blast - one of the ones I'd like to have back.


Gregg
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-20 2:23 PM (#607913 - in reply to #607912)
Subject: RE: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the fastest US made sedan in 57?



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LostDeere59 - 2021-01-20 11:18 AM
In that arena - 0-60 - its all about weight and gearing.
I'd be curious to see the specifications of the cars they actually tested. I'm betting the Rambler was lighter by a significant amount, and was probably geared much steeper. I don't know about 1957, or that particular model, but Rambler was big into overdrives, and as a result often marketed cars with much higher numerical gearing than the norm at the time.


"The Rambler's advanced unibody construction meant it was lighter than most American cars. Another plus: The selection of the three-speed manual with overdrive gearbox meant you got a 4.10:1 axle ratio standard, with stump-pulling 4.44 gears optional. (Hydra-Matic equipped cars came standard with 3.15 gears.)"
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-01-20 3:04 PM (#607919 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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Well there you go.
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GaryS
Posted 2021-01-20 5:11 PM (#607928 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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American Motors had a reputation for quick and fast cars, but because of their bland styling and their perceived customer base, they never could gain traction in the showroom.

A high school friend sometimes borrowed his dad's new '58 Rebel and it was very quick! He would never race anyone, but he would show off when kids would tease him about driving a Rambler. When they saw it launch, the teasing usually stopped.

I also recall attending a drag race at Kissimmee airport in 1960. The race for Top Stock Eliminator was down to the Super Stock winner '60 Chevy hardtop 4-sp, the Super Stock Automatic winner '60 Plymouth hardtop, and I think it was a '59 Rambler 4-door sedan with a 3-speed manual that won A-Stock. I don't recall what it beat tp get to stock eliminator rounds.

In the first round, the Chevy beat the Plymouth for the right to race the Rambler. In that final round, the quiet Rambler jumped into a two car-length lead over the bellowing Impala and hung on for the win and the title. The crowd went wild cheering for the underdog. so yes, even in stock form the AMC cars were competitive.

Both the Chevy and the Plymouth looked and sounded like race cars, but the Rambler looked and sounded like mom's grocery-getter with stock exhausts and no obvious modifications.

Edited by GaryS 2021-01-20 5:15 PM
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71charger_fan
Posted 2021-01-20 7:38 PM (#607935 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?


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The 1st-gen AMC V8 had a deep-skirt block and used forged crank and rods. It's ultimate performance was limited, in my opinion, by using siamesed center exhaust ports.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2021-01-20 11:03 PM (#607940 - in reply to #607935)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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Location: Parts Unknown
Through the teens and 20's Hudsons were handsome cars, as were
Nashs. But someone put acid in the Styling Dept. water coolers at
both firms and by the 40's they both were making odd looking cars.
By the 50's, it was getting pretty extreme. Combined as AMC, it was
as bad or worse.

I say this from a "sleek-and-sexy" perpsective of trying to market
cars. If Harley Earl and Edsel Ford set the bar for eye pleasing good
looks, Nash/Hudson/AMC took up the other end of the spectrum for
styling ideology.

Personally, I like the weird ones, so the ugly ducks and rarely seen
stuff really floats my boat. Still, I can't help but lament that if outfits
like this had forged a better eye for proportion and good looks, they
probably would have sold a lot more cars.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2021-01-21 12:37 AM (#607943 - in reply to #607911)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the fastest US made sedan in 57?


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jboymechanic - 2021-01-20 2:00 PM

I wouldn't say fastest, but quickest. Fastest would indicate top speed, not time to accelerate to 60 mph. I would assume that the AMC had a favorable weight and/or gear ratio. The AMC would also win ugliest.

Very interesting nonetheless.


Jon, like an extension of the chat we had on my “ Latest Resto Project” thread in the “nether region” where I was restoring/rebuilding a 1962, AMC 250/327 marine engine for my boat.

It was a Continental engine block that was being used by AMC and Graymarine. Through the late fifties and throughout the 60s it was the best bang for the buck with respect to reliability and efficiency. A close second was the early Chrysler big block 318 for a bit more money!

Both were fantastic engines!!

Greg
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finsruskw
Posted 2021-01-21 9:31 AM (#607956 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?


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Yeah, talk about econo-box!!
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57chizler
Posted 2021-01-21 1:16 PM (#607967 - in reply to #607935)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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71charger_fan - 2021-01-20 4:38 PM

The 1st-gen AMC V8 had a deep-skirt block and used forged crank and rods. It's ultimate performance was limited, in my opinion, by using siamesed center exhaust ports.


The Olds and Stude were the same but cylinder heads, in general, were AMC's failing; ask Wally Booth.
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58coupe
Posted 2021-01-22 11:47 AM (#608027 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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Greg, I don't understand your comment about "continental block". The 250/327 were AMC designed and built V-8 engines used from about the mid 50s to mid 60s.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2021-01-26 10:22 AM (#608205 - in reply to #608027)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?


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Jon. It took me a while to find this book!

Check the characteristic valve covers on these engines. The original heads and some head bolts on my marine engine were very rusty so I checked with a nearby salvage yard who had several old Rambler engines. The heads and bolts were identical to my engine.

Greg



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Handygun
Posted 2021-01-31 7:56 AM (#608395 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?


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Racing on blacktop would have different results, there isn't alot of stoplight to stoplight on sand. Lightweight and short wheelbase win it here, not more power. But every dog has its day no matter how unfortunately styled or mechanically asthmatic. If you could get off a good 1-2 shift I can't see this thing getting around a D-501 on tarmac.
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58coupe
Posted 2021-01-31 11:47 AM (#608405 - in reply to #607909)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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Just out of high school I had a friend who owned a 61 Rambler w/ 327 3 speed OD. (not the Ambassador) This was a fairly quick car for the times even IIRC only 250 HP. When compared to a D501
That weighs in at about 4000 lbs it is not surprising a car that is 600-700 lbs lighter could beat it. I have somewhere a drive report on the 57 Rebel when new and one of the complaints was it
didn't corner as well as some other cars, it tended to understeer, not surprising with a heavy V-8 up front.
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Sonoramic60
Posted 2021-02-06 5:14 PM (#608584 - in reply to #608405)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?


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Lads --
When the above article was first posted by "Hemmings" I sent the below:

"I'll take on all '57 comers with my stock '57 Chrysler 300C. There is a difference between "fast" and "quick" and while the Rambler might be 1/10 of a second getting to 60 MPH from a standing start than my C, after that point there is no comparison. I was just getting into the car culture in 1957 and any AMC was ne'er to be seen on a drag strip or at a "stop light Grand Prix," much less on the NASCAR circuit. Incidently, we celebrated the C's 50th birthday (build date; January 19, 1957) by taking it down a ten-mile stretch on I-25 adjoining Piles Peak International Raceway here in Colorado with "ball to the wall." I pegged its 150 MPH speedo relatively easily and maintained that speed long enough to scare the heck out of a more than one flatland tourister. With that old speedometer, 150 probably wasn't realistic but it was pretty close."

I see no reason to change my opinion at this time.
Joe Godec
'57 Chrysler 300C, '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Fuelie Vette, '65 Sport Fury 426-S/4-speed
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1960fury
Posted 2021-02-06 5:30 PM (#608585 - in reply to #608584)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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Sonoramic60 - 2021-02-06 5:14 PM

Incidently, we celebrated the C's 50th birthday (build date; January 19, 1957) by taking it down a ten-mile stretch on I-25 adjoining Piles Peak International Raceway here in Colorado with "ball to the wall." I pegged its 150 MPH speedo relatively easily and maintained that speed long enough to scare the heck out of a more than one flatland tourister. With that old speedometer, 150 probably wasn't realistic but it was pretty close."



Right on! You are my hero. That is the way I celebrate my 60s birthday too, or the new year, if the weather allows. Your C is now 64 and I bet it can peg the speedo anytime. Try to reach 150 with any 2021 car in 2085....
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-02-08 4:47 PM (#608640 - in reply to #608585)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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1960fury - 2021-02-06 4:30 PM

Sonoramic60 - 2021-02-06 5:14 PM

Incidently, we celebrated the C's 50th birthday (build date; January 19, 1957) by taking it down a ten-mile stretch on I-25 adjoining Piles Peak International Raceway here in Colorado with "ball to the wall." I pegged its 150 MPH speedo relatively easily and maintained that speed long enough to scare the heck out of a more than one flatland tourister. With that old speedometer, 150 probably wasn't realistic but it was pretty close."



Right on! You are my hero. That is the way I celebrate my 60s birthday too, or the new year, if the weather allows. Your C is now 64 and I bet it can peg the speedo anytime. Try to reach 150 with any 2021 car in 2085....


Not possible, they are computer-limited from the factory well short of that!
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-02-08 5:41 PM (#608641 - in reply to #608640)
Subject: Re: WHAATT??? The 57 Rambler was the quickest US made sedan in 57?



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jboymechanic - 2021-02-08 1:47 PM
1960fury - 2021-02-06 4:30 PM
Right on! You are my hero. That is the way I celebrate my 60s birthday too, or the new year, if the weather allows. Your C is now 64 and I bet it can peg the speedo anytime. Try to reach 150 with any 2021 car in 2085....

Not possible, they are computer-limited from the factory well short of that!


Sure, but sometimes that speed limiter can be removed or bypassed.

My previous passion was an 1993 Audi S4 20V turbo inline 5. It had 227 hp when new and in Europe it would do 150 mph (think Autobahn, straight stretch). The North American cars had "Jumper" on the speed limiter to prevent anything over 208 kph (about 130 mph) because that was the "limit" of "H"-rated tires (the cars came with V-rated tires but the insurance nazis/nannies were afraid of non-V-rated replacement tires).

This "Jumper" took about 20 minutes to find (by the ECU) and remove. Once removed, the speed capability was back to 150 mph (with the 227 hp).

I built my motor to Audi RS2 specs with all the RS2 hardware (turbo, intake cam, injectors, exhaust manifold, etc) and it dyno'd at the equivalent of 350 hp.

With a drag coefficient of about 0.34, a frontal area of about 26.5 sq ft and a weight of 3880 lbs, a speed of 150 MPH takes 207.59 HP to overcome air drag. Rolling resistance is 20.18
For a total of 227.77 HP to run 150 MPH.

Using the same parameters but upping the speed so the total hp needed is 350 hp, at a vehicle Speed of 174.5 MPH it would take 326.83 HP to overcome air drag and with a rolling resistance is 23.47 hp,
a total of 350.30 HP would be required to run 174.5 MPH.

Now, I have no idea what a 2021 Audi (or any other car) is capable of. I never found out what my RS2'd UrS4 would do. I decided that it was too fast for me and sold it in 2018 (2 months shy of owning it for 20 years)



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-08 5:42 PM
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