The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

354 Hemi Piston Size
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> General Technical Discussion and TroubleshootingMessage format
 
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-20 2:28 PM (#607915)
Subject: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Hello I just bought a 1956 354 Hemi. Block # is VT549-1972C. I got it seized 2 days ago. I started taking it apart and notice that there was no piston size only numbers. I got on google and tried looking for numbers and couldn't find any.

Piston # is 1828970 X

I am wondering if this engine has ever been rebuilt

Thanks

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 3:42 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-20 2:53 PM (#607917 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: RE: Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9830
50002000200050010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
1828970 (or 1828 970) doesn't seem to be a valid PN for a Chrysler piston, certainly not one from 1956.

As far as I can tell from the 1955-58 Mopar Parts list, 56 Chrysler piston PNs were 1643 2nn where nn ran from 17 to 28, e.g 1643 217 for a stock poly piston to a 1643 228 for a 0.060 oversized hemi





(56-58ChryslerPistonPNs.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 56-58ChryslerPistonPNs.jpg (158KB - 291 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-20 3:45 PM (#607920 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
Dave, you're not going to find a truck piston number in a passenger catalog. Also, the casting number could be a little off from the part number.
If you are seeing those casting numbers without an additional .01 or .03 on it, then yes, they should be the original pistons for the motor. I believe that your 354 hemi could have been from 1956 or 1957. I suspect that it's from '57.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-20 3:46 PM (#607921 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Odd that it has them in it but not in the book. Wonder if it is different between Canadian hemis and U.S. hemis

Is there any idea how to get part numbers for the truck hemis for those years.

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 4:01 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-20 4:08 PM (#607922 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
Get a part number catalog for the dodge trucks.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-20 4:24 PM (#607923 - in reply to #607920)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9830
50002000200050010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Powerflite - 2021-01-20 12:45 PM
Dave, you're not going to find a truck piston number in a passenger catalog. Also, the casting number could be a little off from the part number.


How would I know that the engine is a truck engine? From the "VT" number?

I did check 1828970 in the 1950 to 1965 Mopar Parts Interchange catalogue (which includes trucks) and nothing came up.

Wouldn't an "18" PN imply 1958?

UPDATE: Found this:

Light Duty Trucks____________________________

These can be Hemi or Poly, some numbers were duplicated

VT-334 ....... 1954 ....... 241
VT-334 ....... 1954 ....... 260
VT-336 ....... 1954 ....... 241
VT-338 ....... 1954 ....... 241
VT-338 ....... 1955 ....... 260
VT-350 ....... 1954 ....... 331
VT-434 ....... 1955-1956 .. 260
VT-436 ....... 1955-1956 .. 260
VT-444 ....... 1956 ....... 260
VT-448 ....... 1956 ....... 331
VT-448 ....... 1959 ....... 354
VT-534 ....... 1957 ....... 315
VT-536 ....... 1957 ....... 315
VT-538 ....... 1957 ....... 315
VT-544 ....... 1956 ....... 315
VT-548 ....... 1956 ....... 354
VT-549 ....... 1956 ....... 354
VT-550 ....... 1956 ....... 354
VT-576 ....... 1958 ....... 354

"The H.D. Dodge truck Hemi motors are way diifferent, 1/2 stem valves and so on, than the car engines are Make sure you know what you will have to change or replace to use the truck motor before decidning to use it The truck motors probally have better cranks and rods also along with solid lifters with adjustable rocker arms "

REFERENCE: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1632267/f...





Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-20 4:30 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-20 4:29 PM (#607925 - in reply to #607922)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
I just remembered that I have a truck parts catalog for '57-'58. I had totally forgotten about it.
Looking through it, I only see std size pistons for V8 motors with part numbers:

1752260 '57 D100-300, W100-400 (This is likely the 315 poly piston)
1752355 '57 D400-600
1843392 '58 D100-600
1818739 Heavy Duty Truck '57 D700-900
1843204 Heavy Duty Truck '58 D700-900
1752471 Export Low Compression 6.8:1 '57 D100-600
1843396 Export Low Compression 7.0:1 '58 D100-600
1818746 Export Low Compression 6.7:1 Heavy Duty Truck '57 D700-900
1843201 Export Low Compression 6.5:1 Heavy Duty Truck '58 D700-900

And I take back what I said about bore size. It looks like they sell overbore sizes with 1 part number higher. For instance:
1752260 Std
1752261 .005 O/S
1752262 .020 O/S
1752263 .040 O/S

So I am not sure that your bore size is standard or not since I can't find your piston number. It seems your motor is indeed from '56. You'll need to get a '56 Truck part number catalog.


Edited by Powerflite 2021-01-20 4:52 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-20 4:43 PM (#607926 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Thanks for the help. I will have to take it apart and get some measurement. I turned it a bit today from being seized but only goes one way. I will work on it and see if I can do a full rotation soon. Let transmission fluid work.

I also have 1 other question. Did any of these truck come with Fire Power engines? The valve covers have Chrysler Fire Power on them.

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 5:09 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-20 5:23 PM (#607929 - in reply to #607926)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9830
50002000200050010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 1:43 PM
I also have 1 other question. Did any of these truck come with Fire Power engines? The valve covers have Chrysler Fire Power on them.


Probably not. From the website I linked above:

"The smooth valve covers and 4 bolt manifolds are some of the positives to counter the negatives when building a truck motor".

Therefore, you might have a car 354 with truck pistons *OR* a truck 354 with car valve covers.

Does it have adjustable or non-adjustable rockers?

Adjustable rockers look like these:



Versus non-adjustable:



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-20 5:43 PM




(ExampleNonAdjustableDoublerRockerHemiValveTrain.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments ExampleNonAdjustableDoublerRockerHemiValveTrain.jpg (149KB - 290 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2021-01-20 5:36 PM (#607930 - in reply to #607929)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 3027
2000100025
Location: N.W. Fla.
What intake does it have? The truck hemi blocks are like the '54 short tail 331s and solid front heads. The heads probably have the fat sodium filled valves, just replace with car valves and guides. You'll want to replace the pistons anyway, they lo-C/R.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-20 6:12 PM (#607932 - in reply to #607923)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
56D500boy - 2021-01-20 1:24 PM

"..... The truck motors probally have better cranks and rods also along with solid lifters with adjustable rocker arms "

REFERENCE: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1632267/f...

:)


This information is incorrect. No truck hemi V8 motor ever came with adjustable rockers or solid lifters. They all used hydraulic lifters.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-20 6:33 PM (#607933 - in reply to #607929)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
They are non adjustable. Plus I see that the heads don't have the water outlets on them. No problems I can get the water outlet for truck motor from hotheads.

This motor will be going in to a 1956 Fargo

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 6:38 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-20 8:00 PM (#607936 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
Then I hope you'll leave it looking mostly stock. That's a rare one. You don't need the water outlets when using the original water pump & intake. You can get a 4bbl intake from a '54 Chrysler if you would like to upgrade the power out of it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-20 8:24 PM (#607937 - in reply to #607936)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Ya it is a 56 Fargo 1 ton with a 9 foot box on it. It is a rare truck. I am not sure how I want to do it. I would like to buy 4 barrel intake and carb and do the front end. But keep the stock cam. If I want it to sound nice. You can do it with mufflers these day.

I am sure you can do a lot these days with these engines but I am not going to race it or put a big blower on it. I just want it to look better then it looks now. I may be rebuilding it.

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 8:29 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-20 8:57 PM (#607938 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
Sounds really cool. Post a picture of it if you have one.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-20 11:08 PM (#607941 - in reply to #607938)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
I keep trying and it keeps telling me no. Why because it is to big of a file. I have edited it about 4 times and it keeps saying it is 2 big of a file.

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 11:10 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-21 12:48 AM (#607945 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
The max size is 250 kb and it needs to be .jpg, not .jpeg.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-21 1:24 AM (#607947 - in reply to #607941)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9830
50002000200050010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 8:08 PM
I keep trying and it keeps telling me no. Why because it is to big of a file. I have edited it about 4 times and it keeps saying it is too big of a file.


Editing (as in cropping to make it look smaller) is not the same as resizing (which is what you need to do).

If you are running a version of Windows, download and use Irfanview to resize your photos. I use it daily for posts with photos. 1024 x 768 is a good size (typically runs about 150 kB or so). My garage camera creates photos that are either 2592 x 1944 pixels if I have the flash "ON" or 5184 x 3888 (or so) with no flash. Irfanview doesn't care. I can import either (or any) size into Irfanview and resize to 1024 x 768 and save as a .jpg in a very few clicks of the mouse.

https://www.irfanview.com/

More hints about uploading photos are in this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64340&...



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-21 1:42 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57chizler
Posted 2021-01-21 1:26 PM (#607969 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: RE: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 3761
200010005001001002525
Location: NorCal
Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 11:28 AM


Piston # is 1828970 X



If you found that number inside the piston, it's a casting number not a part number. They aren't always the same.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-21 2:38 PM (#607975 - in reply to #607947)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
I have been trying to post photo of my truck. It keeps saying no even when I resize it. I will try again later. Not sure why it is 250kb.

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-21 2:41 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-21 2:41 PM (#607976 - in reply to #607969)
Subject: RE: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
57chizler - 2021-01-21 12:26 PM

Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 11:28 AM


Piston # is 1828970 X



If you found that number inside the piston, it's a casting number not a part number. They aren't always the same.


That number was sitting on top of the piston



(Forum 1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Forum 1.jpg (142KB - 298 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-21 4:48 PM (#607987 - in reply to #607932)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Asked for pic of truck



(Forum 2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Forum 2.jpg (147KB - 292 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-21 5:54 PM (#607988 - in reply to #607987)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9830
50002000200050010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
Congrats on successfully posting your photos.

Nice looking truck.

Being a FARGO does that mean it or you are in/from Canada?

Like this one from my home province of Saskatchewan?





Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-21 7:02 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-21 10:12 PM (#607998 - in reply to #607988)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Yes I am from Manitoba
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-21 10:17 PM (#607999 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
Looks like a great project. I can't tell for sure but your truck looks to have the same 6 lug wheels that mine has. The pistons you show are very low compression for a hemi motor. You will want to swap them out to get more compression.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-21 11:21 PM (#608000 - in reply to #607999)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Yes to getting better pistons. The engine is starting to turn over more today but not going all the way around.

The numbers I got for the inner diameter of the bore was 3.9555 and outside diameter for the piston was 3.8730. Wish I could figure out the size of them. I guess I will continue to look at google and see what comes up.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58coupe
Posted 2021-01-22 11:56 AM (#608028 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 1739
100050010010025
Location: Alaska
Standard bore size for the 354 is 3.94. Where are you measuring 3.955 and 3.873? Cylinders were not bored .15 oversize so if that is below the ridge at the top of the cylinder then that is how much the bores are worn. If you are measuring the piston at the skirt it is smaller there than at the ring lands but it could also be very worn.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-22 12:34 PM (#608032 - in reply to #608028)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Thanks I used a digital caliper. It was at the top of the head. The piston was also measured there.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-22 12:36 PM (#608033 - in reply to #607998)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9830
50002000200050010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Bambamshere - 2021-01-21 7:12 PM
Yes I am from Manitoba


Sorry, I see that now. Hope that Covid isn't affecting you or your family.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-22 12:59 PM (#608035 - in reply to #608033)
Subject: Re: Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
No we are all ok. Staying in and staying safe. I hope the same for you and all the families on here are safe from covid.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-24 4:20 PM (#608124 - in reply to #607929)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
1 of the heads



(Forum 10.jpg)



(Forum 9.jpg)



(Forum 11.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Forum 10.jpg (148KB - 295 downloads)
Attachments Forum 9.jpg (147KB - 293 downloads)
Attachments Forum 11.jpg (147KB - 282 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-24 4:51 PM (#608125 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
One of the biggest problems with these old motors is the valve springs were too weak. Over time, they have become weaker. So even if you have a good running motor, it doesn't take many miles of driving with ethanol mixed gasoline before your valves start to lose their seal to the heads. When you rebuild them, I highly recommend that you replace the springs with stronger ones from hot heads. You will likely have to replace all of the exhaust valves to get them into spec too. If you do, keep in mind that the replacement valves require different keepers too. You often can just reuse the intake valves if you like. Just saving you some headache.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-24 6:05 PM (#608130 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Thank You. I think I will probably be rebuilding motor and heads
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2021-01-25 10:33 AM (#608158 - in reply to #607937)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 3027
2000100025
Location: N.W. Fla.
Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 7:24 PM

. I would like to buy 4 barrel intake and carb and do the front end. But keep the stock cam. I may be rebuilding it.
Where it's stuck it should be rebuilt. Egge makes cast pistons in the OEM car C/R of a nominal 9:1. Don't know if the truck engines used a lo-po cam with the lower comp pistons used in trucks. Bob at Hot Heads or Gary at Quality Engineered Components can advise on cam & the proper valve springs to use with the cam. You should mike the valve spring pockets to know how wide a spring you need. Do not deepen pocket for taller springs, casting is a bit thin there.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-25 10:36 AM (#608159 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
I forgot to mention that the new springs require machining the pockets out - not deeper, but wider. It's just a little bit, but needs to be done. Most head rebuilding places are capable of doing this well, but you will need to check first.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2021-01-25 11:44 AM (#608164 - in reply to #608159)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 3027
2000100025
Location: N.W. Fla.
Powerflite - 2021-01-25 9:36 AM

I forgot to mention that the new springs require machining the pockets out - not deeper, but wider. It's just a little bit, but needs to be done. Most head rebuilding places are capable of doing this well, but you will need to check first.
maybe, maybe not, just depends. Found ones that fit fine in my 331.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-25 12:22 PM (#608167 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
500020002000500252525
Location: So. Cal
What was the original application for them George? The ones I am referring to are the springs I purchased from Hot Heads.

Edited by Powerflite 2021-01-25 12:23 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-01-25 6:07 PM (#608180 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
I wish I could start working on the engine right now. The next couple of days at least are going to be -24*c (-11.2*f) day time highs and -40 at night. I will tare it down in a couple weeks. I have heat in garage but would cost a fortune to heat.


I would still like to figure out those pistons and bores. See even if it is worth going any further.

Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-25 6:10 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2021-01-25 9:08 PM (#608186 - in reply to #608167)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 3027
2000100025
Location: N.W. Fla.
Powerflite - 2021-01-25 11:22 AM

What was the original application for them George? The ones I am referring to are the springs I purchased from Hot Heads.
Don't know. Comp Cams dual springs. Valve seat pocket is 1.40" on mine and these are 1.38 with the right pressure ratings. Can't seem to find my old PAW catalog....
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2021-01-25 10:19 PM (#608193 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Expert

Posts: 3027
2000100025
Location: N.W. Fla.
comp cams #988
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-02-28 12:43 AM (#609341 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
So finally got the engine un stuck. I turns over real nice now. I put transmission fluid in it for a month and it turned over. I still need to measure the bore and pistons. I bought a bore gauge and a micrometer.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bambamshere
Posted 2021-05-17 1:33 PM (#612060 - in reply to #607915)
Subject: Re: 354 Hemi Piston Size



Member

Posts: 22

Location: Manitoba, Canada
Hello!! I figured out what the numbers on the piston were. Yesterday I went out to my garage and started working on engine again. I took the head off and gave the top of the piston a good cleaning. The number are 1826 070 not 1826970.

I have another 354 Hemi here. It had .060 pistons in it. I took one of its pistons and it fit in to the cylinder. So it has .070 pistons in it. Egge goes up to a .080 piston on these engines.

Guess should have cleaned the piston better
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)