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1961 Newport resurrection
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   Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General DiscussionMessage format
 
MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-16 9:24 PM (#609999 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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I'm trying to figure out the difference between the subframes.

I would stretch this one, but then the torsion bars would have nowhere to mount.

If the torsion bars are different between this and say, a 300, I would find those and stretch this frame a couple inches.
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Apollo 61
Posted 2021-03-16 9:40 PM (#610000 - in reply to #609999)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Won't work then you have to replace all the front end sheet metal also.
I believe your options are replace mounting area to small frame mounting

Replace entire front end including sheet metal to big car NY/300
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-16 10:27 PM (#610003 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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The rear mount looks more difficult to remove.

Options are move the front mounts on the frame, or move the firewall mounts.

Unless anyone has a better plan.


I should know more tomorrow, and I very much appreciate the input.

Edited by MrIncredible 2021-03-16 10:29 PM
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R41HP
Posted 2021-03-17 12:02 AM (#610007 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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Doesn’t matter if the donor floor came from a long or short wheelbase car (though if it was a ’62 theoretically the transmission tunnel is lower.) The rear crossmembers (of the front subframe) in-floor and on-subframe, are the same. I can’t 100% tell from the photos, but my point is it looks like the orientation of the new floor where it was welded into the body is not lined up with the firewall mounts, which were not disturbed.

The main question is, when the rear crossmember of the front subframe is engaged into the crossmember in the floor, how far off are the forward front subframe-to-firewall mounts? May have to relocate those frame horns, or maybe just enlarge the holes?

A ‘64 300 is a short wheelbase, so that subframe should work, but I’ve only worked with ‘60 to ‘62. Either way, we don’t have to swap sheet metal, etc.

Edited by R41HP 2021-03-17 12:04 AM
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Apollo 61
Posted 2021-03-17 1:38 AM (#610009 - in reply to #610007)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Run these 2 mount pics side by side. You can see the difference in the mount.




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Attachments image.jpeg (364KB - 211 downloads)
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-17 1:52 PM (#610031 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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Picture update before I run off to get my kids:

 

 

It's installed at the rear mount.

 

Here are how the front mounts line up:

 

 

From the bottom:

 

 

How the fender lines up with the core support/door:

 



Edited by MrIncredible 2021-03-17 1:55 PM
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-17 2:30 PM (#610034 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Is that the original sub-frame?
Fenders looks good, perhaps the wheel is a tiny bit too much forward.

You must sort out this before going on, otherwise the steering column might not fit either.
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-17 3:42 PM (#610038 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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That's the subframe from the '64.

Does anyone know the difference between the small front cradle and the large front cradle? Pic, maybe?

Edited by MrIncredible 2021-03-17 4:05 PM
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-17 4:06 PM (#610041 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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so it seems it doesn't fit. The floor was changed in 62 and I think that floor was used up to 64.
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-17 4:46 PM (#610044 - in reply to #610041)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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wizard - 2021-03-17 2:30 PM

Is that the original sub-frame?
Fenders looks good, perhaps the wheel is a tiny bit too much forward.

You must sort out this before going on, otherwise the steering column might not fit either.


Well, the only parts that I know are stock (subframe and the firewall mounts) would move the wheel forward another 2".

I put it back down to about ride height to check fitment.


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wizard
Posted 2021-03-17 4:50 PM (#610045 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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That looks more correct now. But before you modify anything, please testmount the steering column for to confirm that also this fits.
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-17 6:21 PM (#610050 - in reply to #610045)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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wizard - 2021-03-17 4:50 PM

That looks more correct now. But before you modify anything, please testmount the steering column for to confirm that also this fits.


I'll check tomorrow. I'll put the dash and column in and see how they end up.


Given that the wheel placement seems to be correct but the whole mess is further back than original, I find myself very confused.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-17 6:59 PM (#610052 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Is it possible that you actually have a subframe from a '64 Newport?
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-17 7:25 PM (#610053 - in reply to #610052)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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Powerflite - 2021-03-17 6:59 PM

Is it possible that you actually have a subframe from a '64 Newport?


Unlikely-I dismantled the 300 myself. There was no way to ever restore it-no paperwork to be found, drivetrain missing, etc.
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Apollo 61
Posted 2021-03-18 12:02 AM (#610058 - in reply to #610053)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Check out the fit of your inner fender panels also. You may have a problem there!?
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-18 3:41 PM (#610095 - in reply to #610045)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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wizard - 2021-03-17 4:50 PM

That looks more correct now. But before you modify anything, please testmount the steering column for to confirm that also this fits.


Well....without the gauges in it's hard to tell:

 

 

Maybe one of you has one all together and we can figure out a point to measure from and compare?

Offhand, the rear mounts up and the sheet metal fits. I lean towards adjusting the front mounts and if this results in the column being too long, I'll shorten it. That seems preferable that cutting out a  large chunk of floor and moving it 2."

 

As usual, any input is appreciated.

 

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wizard
Posted 2021-03-18 4:02 PM (#610096 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Mount the steering column as well. You will see some evidence where it was monted against the dashboard. If that fits, then all good.
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-18 4:06 PM (#610097 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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Good suggestion!
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-18 5:34 PM (#610099 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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I put the column on and took a pic.

Finally something makes sense!

About 2" off. View from the bottom.



Edited by MrIncredible 2021-03-18 5:35 PM
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-18 5:41 PM (#610100 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Then the front body mounted on the sub-frame frame is off by the same measurement?
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-18 5:46 PM (#610101 - in reply to #610100)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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wizard - 2021-03-18 5:41 PM

Then the front body mounted on the sub-frame frame is off by the same measurement?


Apparently? I can line it up as is.

My plan for tomorrow is to move the frame to the front set of holes and see what that does to everything.

At that point, then the rear mount would need to be moved to accommodate.

It's pretty tucked in there, though.

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Apollo 61
Posted 2021-03-18 7:16 PM (#610105 - in reply to #610101)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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If your front wheel lined up in the center of the fender with frame bolted in rear?
If you bolt it down in front and modify rear then your center of wheel will NOT ride in the center of fender!
It will also bring back the drivetrain 3-4 inches.
Just trying to save you time.


Edited by Apollo 61 2021-03-18 7:19 PM
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-18 7:53 PM (#610106 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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I'm going to shift it to the forward set of mounts tomorrow, and see if the sheet metal lines up at all.

The only snafu with that is the rear piece of frame will interfere a bit.
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-19 3:09 AM (#610118 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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I'd rather check if you could get the steering shaft and column from the 64 there's a possibility that it would be a direct fit - mind the steering wheel splines and check if it's the same.
You'll need to keep the rear sub-fram in the correct position and modify the forward body mounts on the sub-frame instead.
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-20 8:05 PM (#610181 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection


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Just for a sanity check...I tried lining up the forward mounts.

While there is enough play to make the fender happy...it won't line up with the core support. This says to me my best option is to use the existing rear support and modify the fronts to work.


 

 



Edited by MrIncredible 2021-03-20 8:08 PM
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MrIncredible
Posted 2021-03-23 9:09 AM (#610272 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: RE: 1961 Newport resurrection


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So Apollo 61 was correct. Props to him.

While those are the original mounts I have at the firewall, the shop, not knowing the floor I provided them was too long, modified those front mounts to fit the floor provided.

Note the gap in this photo:

 

Using the rear mount gives the correct wheelbase of 122", theoretically puts the column in the correct place, and enables the radiator support to line up with the fenders.

Now the mounts that were modified to fit this floor? They did a nice job. Very stout. I'm planning on just adding to the front frame to enable to line up with those mounts rather than attempt to move everything back to stock. That is a large can of worms to fix something that basically no one will ever see.

 

I'll probably close up that gap though, just to keep everything stout.

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Apollo 61
Posted 2021-03-23 9:30 AM (#610273 - in reply to #608677)
Subject: Re: 1961 Newport resurrection



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Check your inner fender panel for fit?
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