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1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5
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samstrader
Posted 2021-04-06 2:30 AM (#610726)
Subject: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Location: Beaumont TX
I have Dot 3 brake fluid in my system. I have one wheel cylinder in the back that appears to be leaking. It may be the bleeder screw and I'll check that tomorrow. I have two questions.

It looks like the wheel cylinder kits for the back and for the front wheels all use the same cups. Is this correct? I know the back kit is ??112 but don't know the front kit number.

Does anyone know the wheel cylinder rebuild kit numbers. I don't trust Rock Auto to have the right numbers.

If I want to convert to Dot 5, is there a way to do this without pulling all of the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder? Is there a way to flush out all of the Dot 3 with the system mostly in tact?

Thanks,

Sam
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dels56
Posted 2021-04-13 11:42 PM (#610999 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Hi SS, Check Dorman 12222 wheel cylinder kits 1-1/8”.
I didn’t have any help bleeding brakes so I had to improvise. Next I bought Dorman self bleeder screws, 5/16”-24 #12704 and installed them. Then I bought a weed sprayer pump to use to fill the lines rather than pump, pump. I disconnected the brake line from the master cyl and blew out all the lines and wheel cylinders with air. Then jury rigged the sprayer hose to the brake line and pressured up the sprayer pump and opened bleed screws one at a time until air was purged out. Then carefully disconnect pump and reconnect brake line to master. You still have a bit of air in the line after disconnecting sprayer pump but with the self bleeder screws it’s easy to do all by yourself. I used DOT3.

Del S
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dels56
Posted 2021-04-13 11:45 PM (#611000 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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SS. I forgot to mention I connected a bleeder bottle as I purged lines.

Del S
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samstrader
Posted 2021-04-24 3:16 PM (#611398 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Location: Beaumont TX
Thanks Dels56. I like your method...

I've had a low pedal and when I changed my rear cylinder rubbers it looked like the wheel cylinder was only half full with fluid. I think this is what caused the wheel cylinder to leak. I reassembled everything and without doing any bleeding, I pressed on the brake pedal and it was a low pedal but was rock solid firm when it got down to the bottom. I was surprised because I know there was air in that cylinder and thought it would be mushy. But it was solid.

I decided to try a gravity bleed method because this would keep positive pressure on the system whenever bleeding. I filled the master cylinder, took the wheel off and lowered the car as low as I could without grounding the brake drum and then opened the wheel cylinder bleeder and let it bleed. It was a medium speed drip so it took a while. I bled about a cup out of each wheel cylinder like this. Now the fluid coming out of each cylinder is very clean.

I now have the highest and best brake pedal I have ever had on this car. I think I just finally got it bled out correctly. I've been bleeding brakes all my life and now I wonder if I have ever done it right. This gravity bleed method gave me the best results I've every got from a bleed out standpoint and also from a brake fluid change out standpoint. I was surprised. But I'm going to use this method from now on. It's very simple. Also, since it bleeds so slow, you have much less risk of accidentally letting the master cylinder run dry. It was real easy to keep up with the brake fluid level in the MC.

I didn't use a bleeder bottle. Just let the fluid come out of the bleeder and catch the drips in a cup.
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wizard
Posted 2021-04-24 4:31 PM (#611405 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5



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Actually, it's best to pull and clean all Wheel cylinders and the m/c. Then flush all brake lines with alkohol.
DOT 3 is hygroscopic and will give rust issues in the cylinders. So clean, check, renovated or exchange as needed, then it's no problem to fill up with DOT 5. You should plug the brake switch and mount a mechanical switch as well.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-04-24 9:28 PM (#611412 - in reply to #611405)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Dot 3/4 are hygroscopic. That is a GOOD thing. Here's why. Moisture gets in the lines and is encapsulated by the fluid. Yes, you should flush and refill your lines every 3 or 4 years.

With Dot 5, moisture will still get in the lines. But since Dot 5 doesn't absorb moisture, it will sit between the fluid and the lines, usually by the bleeder, causing the lines to eventually rust from the inside. Other problems with Dot 5 are that it is difficult to bleed, due to air getting trapped in the fluid, and also it has been reported that folks using Dot 5 end up with a low pedal. My advice: Dot 3/4. I was very happy with Castrol LMA Dot 4 fluid.

Ron

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samstrader
Posted 2021-05-04 12:35 AM (#611688 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Thanks for everyone's help. I think I will stay with Dot 4, which says on the prestone bottle that it has corrosion inhibiters. I think Dot 3 has corrosion inhibiters too but doesn't say that on the bottle. I've been studying this and thinking through it and I agree with Sevn about how to convert. You should tear down the entire hydraulic system and flush everything with alcohol and then dry it out real good with compressed air and time before adding Dot 5. But I think Dot 4 and the moisture absorption like ronbo97 says is a good way to go because my cap on the master cylinder is not sealed very well. I plan to change out all the fluid in my system with Dot 4 every 2 or 3 years and just empty and refill the master cylinder reservoir every 6 months. That's easy to do and will keep the moisture content down I think. I think the main advantage of Dot 5 is that it won't mess up your paint. My rear wheel cylinders leaked and that fluid ate the paint off of my tire rims pretty good.

There are just plusses and minuses for every option you want it seems.

Thanks again for everyone's help.
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b5rt
Posted 2021-05-04 9:41 PM (#611723 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5



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I like my paint and have run DOT 5 for over 30 years. If you're familiar with Mopar Action's tech editor Richard Ehrenberg, (google it) he's done several articles on the advantages of it and uses it in all his old cars. Never had a line rust or any other goofy problems.

Just can't use it in modern cars with ABS.
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mobileparts
Posted 2021-05-06 6:45 AM (#611764 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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If you would prefer American made Wheel Cylinders, I have all
Six (6) of them in stock, along with Brake Shoes, Brake Hoses,
And Wheel Bearings & Seals.... All U.S.A. made !!!!!

Always best to simply call me --- Craig --- 516 - 485 - 1935.....
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samstrader
Posted 2021-05-06 4:05 PM (#611791 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Location: Beaumont TX
Thanks Mobileparts. I'll keep your number. I'm good for parts right now but am sure I'll need some in the future and much prefer the made in USA stuff.
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gt46tc
Posted 2021-05-16 12:28 AM (#612021 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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The ability of Dot 3 and 4 brake fluid to absorb water is not a flaw. It is a Federal DOT requirement. Vintage brake systems were atmospherically vented. Water WILL enter the system regardless of fluid type. Dot 3 and 4 fluids absorb the water to neutralize the bad effects. Dot 5 does not absorb water. Water entering an openly vented system can freeze in cold climates causing broken or blocked lines. The water also promotes rust. In hard braking, the water can boil at 212 degrees creating a vapor that is compressible leading to total pedal loss. Dot 4 boiling point is from 300 to 450 degrees wet or dry. Dry being fresh and wet being a few years old. Moisture in Dot 5 reduces the boiling point to 212 degrees. Dot 5 is not friendly to the material used in old stock parts and will cause the failure of old stock cups. switches and seals. Dot 5 works well in sealed systems that are designed for Dot 5. Many years back I attended a Bendix brake school here in Houston. The instructor said at the 4% contamination level Dot 3 lost 30% of its efficiency. That level was reached in about 18 months on the coast. We were told an annual fluid purge would allow brake hydraulic systems to last indefinitely. I do not go to that extreme but every 6 months I use a suctions blub to empty the master cylinder and top it off with fresh Dot 4. In hundreds of thousands of miles, I have experienced no hydraulic system failure.

Another major concern is fluid aeration. Shake a can of Dot 3 or 4 and the air bubbles dissipate almost instantly. Do the same with Dot 5 and the air bubbles remain captivated in the fluid resulting in a soft brake pedal. The old "pump and hold" method of bleeding can produce air in Dot 5 so many suggest gravity bleeding. Forward Look cars have master cylinders that are firewall mounted so gravity bleeding is a possibility. Any Mopar prior to 1955 have frame-mounted master cylinders that are lower than the wheel cylinders so there is no way to gravity bleed.

Many will swear by Dot 5 and claim they have used it successfully for decades. What they may not be telling you is they live in a dry climate with an air-conditioned garage or they have converted to a master cylinder that is not openly vented.

Advising the retrofit of Dot 3 with Dot 5 brake fluid is irresponsible unless the person giving the advice knows your specific circumstances, If you park outside in Minneapolis 40 degree below zero weather or live on the 100% humidity Gulf Coast your experience may be more negative than if you have a climate-controlled garage in Tucson.

For those who do not have a sheltered environment, my recommendation is Dot 4 and periodic fluid change.

Edited by gt46tc 2021-05-16 1:49 PM
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Stroller
Posted 2021-06-15 11:35 AM (#612794 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Been using dot 3 for years and will continue to do so. To convert to the dot 5 all your supposed to do is remove and evidence of previous dot 3 and proceed as normal. My old cars stop like they are supposed to and do not have anti-lock systems. Me old school and tend to stick with what the manufactures engineers had come up with, seems to actually work pretty good for the most part. I see more after market adaptamatic failures, mostly because of not thinking about what is being adapted as to how it relates to what is not.
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samstrader
Posted 2021-06-23 1:34 AM (#612999 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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Location: Beaumont TX
Thanks GT46GT. I also bulb out my master cylinder ever 6 months or so. I live in Beaumont where the humidity is 100% all of the time and the fluid does get cloudy after just a few months. I've switched over to DOT 4 because I think it may have more corrosion inhibiters and I'm just going to keep flushing. I've finally found an easy enough way to do it when ever I'm changing the oil with the car on ramps.

Thanks for your thorough explanation. It will help everyone when making a brake fluid type decision. Your information applies to me since I do live in a very humid climate. It takes a lot of flushing to get clear brake fluid but it's worth the effort I think. It is important to consider the climate you are dealing with.

Thanks for your comments too Stroller...

Sam
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-06-23 1:44 AM (#613000 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5



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I lived in Beaumont for a while and really hated it. In the spring they had the worst swarm of mosquitoes I have ever encountered or even imagined. Thousands of them biting me everywhere at the same time. Everything else about the town was fine, but those mosquitoes were unbearable.
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samstrader
Posted 2021-06-23 5:54 PM (#613032 - in reply to #610726)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth Wheel Cylinder Kit Numbers and Convert to Dot 5


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You are totally correct Nathan. There was a guy at the Gulf Refinery years back that was working and drunk and passed out in the tank field and so many mosquitoes sucked blood out of him that he died from it. They spray for them better now but they are a real big problem. Not much use for a back porch here.
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