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please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured
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jerrybev
Posted 2021-12-09 11:17 AM (#617502)
Subject: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
Years back I bought a 318" engine that was out of the car. It was formerly in a 58 plymouth but no one knows if the 318 was original to that car.

I read the numbers of the drivers side of the front face of cylinder block and could only see 6 of the 7 numbers which are: 207370. Also above those #s I could read R318. Using the information that I have, can anyone figure out what year this 318 is and which Chrysler Corp. product it was placed in?
thank you for your time and help.
Merry Christmas
Jerry Whitfield
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58coupe
Posted 2021-12-09 11:34 AM (#617503 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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I think if a 58 engine it should have an L in the number. Your engine may be a 64 but I don't have my listing handy. If it is, it will not bolt up to the 61 and older trans. Look at the crankshaft flange, if the holes are threaded and there is no room to install a nut between the block and flange, it is a newer engine.
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jerrybev
Posted 2021-12-09 12:04 PM (#617504 - in reply to #617503)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
yes, trans. would not bolt up to this engine, so mechanic searched for a different trans. that would bolt up. If the rebuilt carb on the engine were not the original to the engine, would that affect gas mileage? I only get 10-11 mpg. thanks jerry
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57chizler
Posted 2021-12-09 12:29 PM (#617505 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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Look on the side of the block for a casting number; also above the pan gasket there might be a milled flat spot with stamped numbers.



(engine casting number driver side.JPG)



(engine casting number driver side.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments engine casting number driver side.JPG (75KB - 136 downloads)
Attachments engine casting number driver side.JPG (75KB - 132 downloads)
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jerrybev
Posted 2021-12-09 1:02 PM (#617506 - in reply to #617504)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
I bought the 1956 plymouth car with no engine. That explains why the transmission in place would not connect to a 318". I bought a 318 that came out of a 1958 plymouth but do not know if that engine were original to that car, or a later 318.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-12-09 1:29 PM (#617507 - in reply to #617506)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


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Location: Connecticut

Jerry -

Just as a suggestion, the least painful solution would be to purchase an original 277 from another 56 Plymouth. Then you can be sure it will bolt up to your Powerflite tranny.

Ron

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jerrybev
Posted 2021-12-09 3:15 PM (#617511 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi Ron:
thanks but I had this 318" rebuilt. I saw 6667 on right side of the block. I don't know if these numbers help to identify it or not.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-12-09 5:33 PM (#617512 - in reply to #617511)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


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Location: Connecticut

Jerry -

You may be trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. The later 318 will likely not bolt up to the early Powerflite.

Ron

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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-09 5:37 PM (#617513 - in reply to #617512)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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ronbo97 - 2021-12-09 2:33 PM

Jerry -

You may be trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. The later 318 will likely not bolt up to the early Powerflite.



Isn't there a difference between the number of crankbolts between older and newer 318s?

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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-09 5:43 PM (#617514 - in reply to #617512)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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ronbo97 - 2021-12-09 2:33 PM

Jerry -

You may be trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. The later 318 will likely not bolt up to the early Powerflite.



Isn't there a difference between the number of crankbolts between older and newer 318s?

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wayfarer
Posted 2021-12-09 7:09 PM (#617516 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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Time to post some pictures of the casting numbers and the rear of the block with the crank flange.
Hint....Does the crank flange have a short raised 'ring' at the center, about 2" dia or is the face of the flange completely flat?
Completely flat says pre-62 vintage.
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jerrybev
Posted 2021-12-09 9:05 PM (#617518 - in reply to #617514)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
you are correct, they won't match up. A different transmission was sourced several years ago, and the car drives fine.
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jerrybev
Posted 2021-12-09 9:09 PM (#617519 - in reply to #617516)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
visible are 6 of the 7 casting numbers: 207370.
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-01-05 4:27 PM (#618161 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: pictures to please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
I can't see the 7th digit of the engine number. Engine seller said this is a 318. The car it came from was an east coast car and we do not know of that engine was original to the car it came out of. I cannot see the 7th digit. Mechanic said the head would have to be removed to view the 7th digit. I can see 207370. Let's assume the unseeable digit is the 7th or final digit. Does anyone have a list of numbers of engines to see if this set of 6 numbers fits any production run of engines 2073700-207379. Pictures below.
thank you
Jerry Whitfield
.
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-01-05 4:27 PM (#618162 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: pictures to please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
500100252525
Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
I can't see the 7th digit of the engine number. Engine seller said this is a 318. The car it came from was an east coast car and we do not know of that engine was original to the car it came out of. I cannot see the 7th digit. Mechanic said the head would have to be removed to view the 7th digit. I can see 207370. Let's assume the unseeable digit is the 7th or final digit. Does anyone have a list of numbers of engines to see if this set of 6 numbers fits any production run of engines 2073700-207379. Pictures below.
thank you
Jerry Whitfield
.
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-01-05 4:27 PM (#618163 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: pictures to please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
500100252525
Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
I can't see the 7th digit of the engine number. Engine seller said this is a 318. The car it came from was an east coast car and we do not know of that engine was original to the car it came out of. I cannot see the 7th digit. Mechanic said the head would have to be removed to view the 7th digit. I can see 207370. Let's assume the unseeable digit is the 7th or final digit. Does anyone have a list of numbers of engines to see if this set of 6 numbers fits any production run of engines 2073700-207379. Pictures below.
thank you
Jerry Whitfield
.
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-01-05 4:59 PM (#618164 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
500100252525
Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
I am attaching pix of engine. I can see 6 digits. Mechanic said would have to remove head to see the7th digit. Let's assume the 7th digit was the final digit. So, can someone check to see listing of 318" engine numbers for 2073700-20737909 for all Chrysler Corp cars that used a 318"? Do not know if the engine was original to the car it came out of.
Jerry Whitfield
pictures to follow below (hopefully).
thank you



(Jerry 1958 318 -3.JPG)



(Jerry 1958 318 engine 2.JPG)



(Jerry 1958 318 engine.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Jerry 1958 318 -3.JPG (99KB - 126 downloads)
Attachments Jerry 1958 318 engine 2.JPG (104KB - 118 downloads)
Attachments Jerry 1958 318 engine.JPG (89KB - 125 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-05 6:06 PM (#618165 - in reply to #618164)
Subject: RE: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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Jerry: We can not see any numbers in your photo. Regardless, the casting numbers are NOT the engine numbers. That said, a casting number that starts with "20" is probably (in my mind) from 1960.

From the 1960 parts book:

"LOCATING ENGINE NUMBER :

A boss is provided on all cylinder blocks upon which the Engine Number is stamped. For 6-cylinder engines, this
is located on the left side of the block at the front and below the cylinder head. For 8-cylinder engines, it will be
found on the top of the cylinder block behind the water pump, except on the Plymouth PP2, where it is located on the
front of the block beneath the left-hand (driver's side) cylinder head.
"

I think you need to look in those two locations.






(1960MoparEngineNumberLocations.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1960MoparEngineNumberLocations.jpg (103KB - 123 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-05 7:34 PM (#618172 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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jerrybev - 2021-12-09 8:17 AM Years back I bought a 318" engine that was out of the car. It was formerly in a 58 plymouth but no one knows if the 318 was original to that car.


From your recently posted photos, I see two bolt valve covers.

Jerry: According to Pg. 9-26 in the 1955-58 Parts book, the 57-58 Mopar P29 318 engine used a 3 bolt valve cover with PN 1827 401.

By 1959, they had changed to a two-bolt valve cover design, PNs 1859 432 (right) and 1945 506 (left)

For 1960, they stuck with the two-bolt valve cover design with the same 1859 432 (right) and 1945 506 (left) up to engine No. 65030, then they had
new PNs 2128 404 (right) and 2128 405 (left).

So, without seeing the actual engine number, the safe guess is that your 318 was NOT original to a 1958 Plymouth. It could be from a 1959 or 1960 or later (??)







(1957-58P29_318_3BoltValveCovers.jpg)



(1959MP2_MDS_318_2BoltValveCovers.jpg)



(1960_318_2boltValveCovers.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1957-58P29_318_3BoltValveCovers.jpg (112KB - 128 downloads)
Attachments 1959MP2_MDS_318_2BoltValveCovers.jpg (115KB - 120 downloads)
Attachments 1960_318_2boltValveCovers.jpg (128KB - 132 downloads)
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-01-06 8:46 PM (#618195 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: RE: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
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Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
thank you
Jerry Whitfield
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PolyJ
Posted 2022-01-17 2:53 PM (#618550 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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Unfortunately, valve covers can't be trusted. While they switched from the 3-bolt to 2-bolt in 1959, all A-block heads from 1956 - 1966 were machined for the third center bolt. You can put 2-bolt covers on a pre-1959 head and 3-bolt covers on a 1959+ head. Case in point, I bought a 1958 V800 A318 that had 2-bolt valve covers, and I have put 3-bolt covers on a 1966 head. The stamped block ID is the only way to accurately pinpoint the production year that the engine came in. Judging by the rear block casting and crankshaft, you can place the engine as a 1956 - 1961 or 1962+.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-17 6:51 PM (#618559 - in reply to #618550)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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Thanks, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that the heads with the 2 bolt valve covers would NOT be prepped for 3 bolt covers (drilling and tapping the boss on the head for the middle bolt). Live and learn.

If we could only get Jerry to find the stamped block ID below the front of the left head, everyone would be happy(er), especially Jerry.


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56D500boy
Posted 2022-02-04 12:24 PM (#619042 - in reply to #618559)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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56D500boy - 2022-01-17 3:51 PM
If we could only get Jerry to find the stamped block ID below the front of the left head, everyone would be happy(er), especially Jerry.


Found a great example of a stamped 318 Plymouth Poly engine number as part of a recent link to a Facebook advert for a 57 Fury basket case (some assembly required, batteries not included):





(57PlymouthFury318Poly_EngineNumberByLeftHead.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 57PlymouthFury318Poly_EngineNumberByLeftHead.jpg (158KB - 114 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-02-04 1:59 PM (#619046 - in reply to #617502)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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At the beginning, you stated that the motor was stamped with R318. R is the designation for 1961, so it should work for your car as long as the crank is the original one. However, I suspect that the reason he couldn't get the transmission to attach to the motor is because you are missing the Powerflite aluminum spacer that is required (#88 in the '55-'58 picture that Dave posted). Do you have the proper spacer for the transmission?
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-03-25 9:23 AM (#620469 - in reply to #617503)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
500100252525
Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
thanks for your reply. When you have your listings handy can you please look up the # in the picture and see if you can help me identify the year it was made.
I only get 10 mpg and mechanic said perhaps I have the wrong carb, and should get closer to 15 mpg. Thanks for any help.
Jerry Whitfield
winston salem NC
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jerrybev
Posted 2022-03-25 9:23 AM (#620470 - in reply to #617503)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured


Elite Veteran

Posts: 688
500100252525
Location: Winston Salem, N.C.
hi
thanks for your reply. When you have your listings handy can you please look up the # in the picture and see if you can help me identify the year it was made.
I only get 10 mpg and mechanic said perhaps I have the wrong carb, and should get closer to 15 mpg. Thanks for any help.
Jerry Whitfield
winston salem NC
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-25 11:30 AM (#620472 - in reply to #620470)
Subject: Re: please help in identifying year this 318" was manufactured



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Jerry: There is no photo in this thread that shows the number of your engine. The casting number is *NOT* the engine number.

That said, it appears that the engine *MIGHT* be from 1960.

*IF* that was true and you have a two barrel, the factory parts books says that there are only two real choices:

1. Carter BBD 2921S (should be a tag that says this)

https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=2921S

Carb kit for a Carter BBD 2921S should be a K7124 from this list:

https://www.carburetor-parts.com/bbd-carb-nums.html

Rebuilt one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000817546613.html



2. Stromberg WW15-41 (should have a tag)

Stromberg WW identification:

https://www.carburetor-blog.com/knowledge-base/ww-identification/



Similar to this:



3. Other sources

There are other sources that say that there were other 318 carbs in 1960. I will leave you the list to consider (below, in yellow and blue):

Edited by 56D500boy 2022-03-25 1:57 PM




(1960Plymouth318CarbPartNumbers.jpg)



(1960Plymouth318CarbPartNumbers_Other.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1960Plymouth318CarbPartNumbers.jpg (137KB - 104 downloads)
Attachments 1960Plymouth318CarbPartNumbers_Other.jpg (121KB - 96 downloads)
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