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277 priming and timing marks
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cdstl
Posted 2022-03-16 6:55 PM (#620290)
Subject: 277 priming and timing marks



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Posts: 73
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Ok so here goes. I've got the car home and I DO have the FSM. I'm not sure if I'll keep her or not but I thought that I'd see if she'll run.

I'd like to prime the oil system, it's been 35 years since start, and need to set timing. The FSM doesn't show timing marks and I'm not sure on the priming either. I know the dizzy will have to come out and I believer there is also a gear there that runs off of the cam gear to drive the oil pump and dizzy.

If I pull that gear out, what will fit onto the oil pump to prime it?

Thanks





(IMG_5561.jpg)



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ronbo97
Posted 2022-03-16 8:42 PM (#620292 - in reply to #620290)
Subject: RE: 277 priming and timing marks


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Location: Connecticut

There is no need to pull the distributor. Just pull the coil wire.

In the following order:

  • Get a fresh 6V battery.
  • Replace the battery cables with correct 0/1 cables.
  • Change the oil and filter.
  • Put some marvel down the spark plug holes.
  • Turn engine by hand with a breaker bar.
  • Fresh spark plugs. Gap the plugs.
  • Replace points and condenser. Set points.

Then crank it and see what happens. If it runs, then you can set the timing.

Don't get any foolish ideas about spraying starter fluid down the carb until it starts. Do not use starter fluid. Ever.

Ron

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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-16 8:53 PM (#620293 - in reply to #620290)
Subject: RE: 277 priming and timing marks



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Have you determined that the engine is not stuck by rotating it by hand (clockwise from the front with a socket on the crankshaft bold), at least one revolution (better if you can do 2 revs)?? If not, you will need to remove the spark plugs and squirt some Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders and let that soak over night before trying again.

If things rotate, you could disconnect the coil wire and the fuel line into the fuel pump and then crank the engine with the starter to build up some oil pressure (assuming there is oil in the crankcase that isn't tar).

There are lots of videos on YouTube with guys getting engines started that have been sitting for 30 years. Two that I like watching are Derek at Vice Grip Garage and Sleeperdude (don't know his name):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhpA1uT8W28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOxP23NNaMk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-YgAa7Yn4

There are timing marks on your crankshaft pulley and there should be a timing marker with a pointer attached to the timing chain cover or the water pump.

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cdstl
Posted 2022-03-16 11:51 PM (#620297 - in reply to #620290)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Posts: 73
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No, I haven't done anything yet, I figured that it could hurt to prime the motor and pull it through a quarter revolution at a time until I got oil out of the rockers. This thing has been sitting idle, indoors, for 35 years. It wouldn't hurt to get some fresh oil to the bearings before running it through with the starter. Yeah, I've watched some of the first starts and I want to avoid bent pushrods and such. Good to know about the crank pulley having the timing mark, that's where I thought that it was on this motor. I'm just gathering information before I go out and start fooling with it.

LAs and big blocks have the hex in the oil pump, which I'm sure that you know, and I was just wondering what an A engine has.

Thanks Guys
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-17 2:45 AM (#620298 - in reply to #620297)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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cdstl - 2022-03-16 8:51 PM
LAs and big blocks have the hex in the oil pump, which I'm sure that you know, and I was just wondering what an A engine has.


Pretty sure that an "A" has a male "flat" at the end of the distributor that fits into a female slot in the shaft that is driven by the cam shaft and which drives both the oil pump and the distributor.

Examples:





(1642392_IBK4301A_DistributorShowingFlatMaleBitAtEndOfShaft.jpg)



(DistributorAndOilPumpDriveShaftShowingFemaleSlotToDriveTheDistributorShaft.jpg)



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Attachments 1642392_IBK4301A_DistributorShowingFlatMaleBitAtEndOfShaft.jpg (111KB - 101 downloads)
Attachments DistributorAndOilPumpDriveShaftShowingFemaleSlotToDriveTheDistributorShaft.jpg (175KB - 107 downloads)
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cdstl
Posted 2022-03-17 7:24 AM (#620299 - in reply to #620298)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Good graphic and picture of the distributer. I see that the distributor and drive gear would have to come out, and then a rod with a slot cut into it would drive the oil pump. That's about what I figured that the deal was. The later motors had a hex for the oil pump drive and not the slotted shaft that these motors have. I'll let you know what I end up doing.

Thanks
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Mopar1
Posted 2022-03-17 9:29 AM (#620301 - in reply to #620299)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Location: N.W. Fla.		As was said make 2 complete turns with ratchet or breaking bar to make sure there's no binds. Put fresh oil, pre SM would be best. You can take a piece of rod (round stock) and groove it to mate with the oil pump. If oiling is same as the early hemi & polys each bank rockers will oil from 2 different points of the rotation. Spin O/P with drill motor while a buddy slowly turns the engine. You should hear a slight change in drill when you hit the sweet spots. Might be a good idea to drop the pan & clean sludge out & spray some white lithium on the cam. Trying to prime with the starter is a good way to hammer your starter & battery.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-17 12:35 PM (#620304 - in reply to #620299)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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cdstl - 2022-03-17 4:24 AM Good graphic and picture of the distributer. I see that the distributor and drive gear would have to come out, and then a rod with a slot cut into it would drive the oil pump. That's about what I figured that the deal was. The later motors had a hex for the oil pump drive and not the slotted shaft that these motors have.


Sorry Charles but you keep mentioning this "hex" drive on the "later engines". Never heard of that. All I know is the 273-318-340-360 "LA" engines (starting with the 273 in 1964) used a slot drive like your 277. In fact, once you get your car running on points, you will probably be able to go to a modern Mopar electronic ignition and distributor, as discussed in a previous thread, like this:

56D500boy - 2021-12-21 4:51 PM

Arocket111 - 2021-12-21 1:42 PM
Hi all fitted the Mopar electronic distributor to the 270 poly engine today bolted straight in and fired up straight away with no issues very happy the engine is running very sweetly now
Thanks to the 2 members who pointed me in this direction


That is great news Phil. That worked because your 270 is a low deck engine, not like the raised deck 315 poly and hemi also used in 1956.

56D500boy - 2021-10-27 7:23 AM
As for the distributor, I recently inquired about using an LA Block 273-318-340-360 electronic distributor on my 56 315 hemi and I was told that NO that will not work because the 315 block is a raised block and the LA blocks are shorter. So unless I got and longer distributor shaft, they would not work on *MY* engine.

HOWEVER, the 270 in 1956 is very likely a carry over from the 1953-1955 241-270 blocks which were NOT raised. Therefore, you will probably be able to use a LA Block 273-318-340-360 electronic distributor like these kits:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/234243343074

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/233098658395





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ronbo97
Posted 2022-03-17 1:36 PM (#620305 - in reply to #620304)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks


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Location: Connecticut

I think he's referring to B-blocks, like 350-361-383, that use the hex.

There is no need to spend 100s on modern upgrades. Your engine will be fine with points, condenser, etc.

Ron

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cdstl
Posted 2022-03-27 12:33 PM (#620508 - in reply to #620304)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Hey guys, sorry I haven’t been back for a bit, I’ve been busy.

Yeah, oil pump drive gear has a hex shaft that goes into the oil pump on all LA, Magnum, B and RB motors.
You pull the cam drive gear out and slide a 1foot or so hex key onto your drill and spin the oil pump up to pre oil.
Works good and last a long time. I’m trying to post a picture that is only 244kb but can’t make it work. There’s an attachment at the bottom.

If you look at the picture above, reference Shaft with Gear 10-09-5. You will see that the bottom, where it goes into the oil pump, has a slot and not a hex.

I got the 277 running, but the carb leaks like a sieve, I’m going to put a rebuild kit in it later this week.

Question, I cleaned up the sediment bowl and would like to source the O ring, or gasket that presses between the bowl and the sediment body. Anyone know where to get that?

Thx




Edited by cdstl 2022-03-27 12:54 PM




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Attachments E1B142D2-E965-4BD9-8174-8264DCE094FA.jpeg (234KB - 100 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-27 1:07 PM (#620509 - in reply to #620508)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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cdstl - 2022-03-27 9:33 AM
I got the 277 running, but the carb leaks like a sieve, I’m going to put a rebuild kit in it later this week.
Question, I cleaned up the sediment bowl and would like to source the O ring, or gasket that presses between the bowl and the sediment body. Anyone know where to get that?


That should be in a good rebuild kit. You don't say which carb but a normal (non-power pack (4 bbl)) P29 (56 Plymouth V8) would have had a Carter Ball and Ball 2274S or 2407S 2 bbl Carb.

Something like these below:

Carbs Unlimited offers two kits for the P29 277 V8 (depending on which carb you have):

https://www.carburetion.com/Kits/plymouth.htm

https://www.carburetion.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?part=AF2031

https://www.carburetion.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?part=AF2032

In Canada, the Carb Doctor has a kit

https://carburetor.ca/kits/ck0457.html

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cdstl
Posted 2022-03-27 6:55 PM (#620512 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Posts: 73
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Thanks, I have a carb kit already, it’s a 4bbl. I’ll have to see if the O ring is in there.

Did I explain the oil priming method well enough?

Thanks
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-27 7:00 PM (#620514 - in reply to #620512)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
cdstl - 2022-03-27 3:55 PM Thanks, I have a carb kit already, it’s a 4bbl. I’ll have to see if the O ring is in there.


I see a bunch of O-rings in the AF-2022 4 bbl 277 POWER PACK Carter WCFB 2530S, SA, 2725S kit from Carbs Unlimited.

https://www.carburetion.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?part=AF2022



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-03-27 7:02 PM
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PolyJ
Posted 2022-03-29 12:05 PM (#620572 - in reply to #620290)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Location: Denver, Colorado, USA		Cdstl, sorry I'm late to the party. I wish I saw your thread earlier since I could have gotten you lined out on the hex size and length. You were wise to want to prime the system and verify oil pressure and that oil was getting to the top end on an A-block that hasn't run in 35 years. Oil at the rockers on A-blocks means oil at the crank, cam journals, and lifters. Getting fresh oil on the bearings and cam lobes is wise too after 35 years. For future info, you sometimes need to rotate the crank 180 degrees while spinning up the pump in order to get oil in both heads due to how the oil makes it's way through the crank and cam journals.
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cdstl
Posted 2022-03-30 11:30 PM (#620612 - in reply to #620290)
Subject: Re: 277 priming and timing marks



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Posts: 73
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Thanks everyone, I got her up an running, she actually purrs along pretty well. I ordered a rebuild kit for the Carter WCFB from Rock Auto for $45 and it had everything that I needed, except for a new seal for the sediment bowl. I just deleted the sediment bowl since it was leaking. It shifts into first and reverse and I plan on backing it out of the garage soon. I don't plan on keeping the car, but it was fun to breathe some life back into her.
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