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58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-26 1:01 PM (#621749)
Subject: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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After 34 years I finally decided tear into my untouched 383 with over 350K hard miles. Looks like the exhaust valves have enormous play (intakes are fine). Id like to avoid machine work at $$$$$$ an hour in Germany and do it the way the factory recommends, with oversized valves... but I can't find them nowhere.

Does somebody know a source, or at least the part numbers for the oversized valves? I bet I need the +.030 ones, if that is enough. I wonder how it was able to run with play like that.

They must be out there somewhere. The larger post 67 are no problem, but not even the >68 standard valves are available at RockAuto anymore.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-26 5:00 PM (#621754 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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1960fury - 2022-05-26 10:01 AM
Does somebody know a source, or at least the part numbers for the oversized valves? I bet I need the +.030 ones, if that is enough. I wonder how it was able to run with play like that.


Sid: Looks like there are a couple of choices for 0.030 over valves



(1960MoparExhaustValvePNs.jpg)



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57chizler
Posted 2022-05-27 12:18 PM (#621764 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Dvorak Machine has .015" oversized stems.

https://www.dvorakmachine.com/valves.shtml
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-27 12:36 PM (#621765 - in reply to #621754)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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56D500boy - 2022-05-26 5:00 PM

1960fury - 2022-05-26 10:01 AM
Does somebody know a source, or at least the part numbers for the oversized valves? I bet I need the +.030 ones, if that is enough. I wonder how it was able to run with play like that.


Sid: Looks like there are a couple of choices for 0.030 over valves


THANKS!!! "Only" one choice for each oversize .005, .015 and .030 for the Big Block. Thes rest is Poly/Slant6. Again, THANKS.
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-27 12:37 PM (#621766 - in reply to #621764)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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57chizler - 2022-05-27 12:18 PM

Dvorak Machine has .015" oversized stems.

https://www.dvorakmachine.com/valves.shtml


Great! THANK YOU JOHN!
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-27 12:44 PM (#621767 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Unfortunately Dvoraks email bounces :C
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-27 1:12 PM (#621768 - in reply to #621765)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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1960fury - 2022-05-27 9:36 AM
THANKS!!! "Only" one choice for each oversize .005, .015 and .030 for the Big Block. Thes rest is Poly/Slant6. Again, THANKS.


I checked 1739614 at all the usual places:

Hiltop Mopar
Len Dawson
Grease Monkey
Mopar Mall

and they all came up dry.

You might have had guides machined/replaced and use whatever valves you can find.

viel Glück

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60 dart
Posted 2022-05-27 5:38 PM (#621771 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-27 6:46 PM (#621772 - in reply to #621771)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Nice find.

Except, I think Sid is looking for exhaust valves.

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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-27 9:25 PM (#621773 - in reply to #621771)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Thanks Chuck! unfortunately these are the intakes. Also the applictaion listed is not correct. These are for the 1rst generation heads with the 1.95" intakes and some later 361s up to 1960, I think.
All 383s from 59 up have the 2.08s. Yet, very nice find.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-05-27 9:26 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-27 9:42 PM (#621774 - in reply to #621768)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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56D500boy - 2022-05-27 1:12 PM

1960fury - 2022-05-27 9:36 AM
THANKS!!! "Only" one choice for each oversize .005, .015 and .030 for the Big Block. Thes rest is Poly/Slant6. Again, THANKS.


I checked 1739614 at all the usual places:

Hiltop Mopar
Len Dawson
Grease Monkey
Mopar Mall

and they all came up dry.

You might have had guides machined/replaced and use whatever valves you can find.


viel Glück

:)


Thanks for searching!!! Really appreciated. I absolutely hate to let other people work on my car or parts. It is the absolute horror for me and it is very expensive to boot! This is why my car is still on the road.

I tought I made an invention when I thought about reaming from the combustion chamber side, using 45° cone shaped guides that fit into the valve seats.
All guide jobs I had seen so far use precision $$$ machines from the top. But from the underside the job would be as precise with home tools, or even better, as the machines use a worn out guide as a starting point. With the valve-seat-cone as a guide the seat is the point of reference and that is what counts.

I just found out that this is not new, but I can't find these tools. How are they called? All I find is stuff for the seats. Does somebody know?
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Shep
Posted 2022-05-28 1:28 PM (#621777 - in reply to #621774)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Here we fit bronze guide inserts, done with a jig set up. This requires a full valve job when done. Yes, expensive. About 600.00 last I time had this done on my maxwedge heads.

Edited by Shep 2022-05-28 1:32 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2022-05-28 2:16 PM (#621779 - in reply to #621777)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Another alternative is DIY guide replacement with a kit such as offered by Goodson https://goodson.com/collections/bronze-liners-tooling/products/6-0mm...

This is one of those tools, the expense of which, can be shared by folks in similar circumstances. Some friends and I went in and purchased a Winona kit that doesn't require specialized tools. Any guide work will require a valve job afterwards.
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-28 6:59 PM (#621782 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Thanks, I think I will slap it back together the way it was, after porting and new exhaust valves/seals. John the kit you linked works from the top side, or at least has no guide. The valve guides on mine are so worn, I would be lucky if the new guides corrospondent halfway with the seats. There is some tool that works from the combustion chamber side, using valve sized cones as a guide for the drill/reamer. I do not know where to find it. If I had a lathe, I'd fab it myself.

I pulled one side because it developed a hissing noise (sounding and acting like a header leak) and bad compression. The radiator stop leak (China radiator) plugged the tiny cooling slots in the head gasket and it got hot. One ex valve went. I closer examined the high mileage head. Looks like the valve that burned (I was certainly not running lean) the seat or port was slightly different than the others from the factory as I spotted a small section under the 45° seat where the valve already hit the as cast surface for some time, meaning it wasn't ported quite right from the factory (I do not complain after over 350K, almost 63 years and 30 years without lead). The 3 of the other ports there is nothing that the valve could hit beyond the seat, or at least the angle is much steeper. So I will grind that carfully away (will port anyway) and install new valves/seals, hoping they are slighty larger and run it for the next 60 years :/ The other seats look all great and there is not even the tiniest scar or anything in the cylinder walls. Also will add the roller rockers, that I have lying around for years, for less side load on the stems.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-05-28 7:23 PM




(head1.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-28 7:33 PM (#621784 - in reply to #621782)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3MezVMZ2hg&t=49s
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local2Ed
Posted 2022-05-29 7:05 AM (#621789 - in reply to #621784)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves


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Looks like the valve stem hole is worn off center.
That is not something that can be corrected with a hand held drill.
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-29 6:07 PM (#621792 - in reply to #621789)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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local2Ed - 2022-05-29 7:05 AM

Looks like the valve stem hole is worn off center.
That is not something that can be corrected with a hand held drill.


Wear is never, or rarely, uniform and we are talking maybe around .020, something you can't see, only measure. I just cleaned one side for the picture to show the edge.
And of of course could this be corrected with a hand held drill and a reamer, using a guide, that fits into the valve seat, like in the video above. As I pointed out before, this is more precise than a expensive machine that uses a worn out valve guide as a point of refference.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-05-29 6:10 PM
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PolyJ
Posted 2022-05-30 3:00 AM (#621794 - in reply to #621789)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Shep - 2022-05-28 11:28 AM Here we fit bronze guide inserts, done with a jig set up. This requires a full valve job when done. Yes, expensive. About 600.00 last I time had this done on my maxwedge heads.

local2Ed - 2022-05-29 5:05 AM Looks like the valve stem hole is worn off center. That is not something that can be corrected with a hand held drill.

Agreed, the pictured out-of-round guides need to be either lined using a bronze K Line (my preferred method for B/RB heads when retaining the 3/8" valves) or new bronze or spiral iron guides installed when using 11/32" or 5/16" valves.

The hand drill K-Line reamer like the video above is used as a rough early step in the process to ream the original guide large enough to press in the guide liner before the precision step of broaching the liner to the desired valve clearance, and a quality machinist will use the bit not in a hand drill but on a sliding table drill press or the like to stay away from the kind of wobbling seen in the video and to ensure every guide is reamed exactly perpendicular to the rocker towers. That reamer is not designed and won't work properly to resurface existing guides that are worn out of round, especially with a hand drill and with worn seats that may throw off the bushing alignment. Using the hand drill reamer to finish the guide will likely lead to multiple valve train issues including burned valves due to improper seal, premature valve and liner wear due to slop in the guide and fluctuating rocker tip geometry, and poor and fluctuating rocker tip geometry due to slop in the guide.

Most oversized valve stems went out of production decades ago when machining processes evolved (such as the guide liner) since reaming the guides for larger valve stems requires the same amount of labor as installing guide liners and standard-sized valve stems are less expensive than oversized valve stems.



Edited by PolyJ 2022-05-30 4:12 PM
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Shep
Posted 2022-05-30 4:04 PM (#621805 - in reply to #621794)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Great info!
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-05-30 11:49 PM (#621815 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Just replace the guides. When I replaced the guides in my 331 hemi, it cost me $80 labor + $80 for the new exhaust guides. Cheap. This isn't something that is long forgotten that no other car uses anymore. They all use valves and any good shop should be able to handle it well. Just find a good shop you trust.
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58coupe
Posted 2022-05-31 11:04 AM (#621819 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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I don't believe that the 383 has replaceable guides. It has to be machined for them which costs extra. Sid, you might be able to find a used set of heads in better shape.
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PolyJ
Posted 2022-05-31 12:57 PM (#621829 - in reply to #621819)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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58coupe - 2022-05-31 9:04 AM I don't believe that the 383 has replaceable guides. It has to be machined for them which costs extra. Sid, you might be able to find a used set of heads in better shape.

I assume by "replace" Nathan means removing the old guides and installing new ones. On A/LA/B/RB heads, the old guides are replaced by either reaming them out and lining with K Line bronze inserts or completely machining them out and pressing in new bronze or cast-iron guides, either method then being finished to the desired valve clearance. My machinist charges $38 for the sixteen guides and $150 labor to install them--this is at $110 USD shop rate. It costs additional to have him cut the guides for positive seals. This work doesn't include the valve job, which the photos above show the heads need a valve job an might need new valves depending on the stem wear of the existing valves. Then there's hardened exhaust seats to consider depending on the amount of use the engine will see.




Edited by PolyJ 2022-05-31 2:43 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-05-31 8:39 PM (#621842 - in reply to #621794)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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PolyJ - 2022-05-30 3:00 AM

Shep - 2022-05-28 11:28 AM Here we fit bronze guide inserts, done with a jig set up. This requires a full valve job when done. Yes, expensive. About 600.00 last I time had this done on my maxwedge heads.

local2Ed - 2022-05-29 5:05 AM Looks like the valve stem hole is worn off center. That is not something that can be corrected with a hand held drill.

Agreed, the pictured out-of-round guides need to be either lined using a bronze K Line (my preferred method for B/RB heads when retaining the 3/8" valves) or new bronze or spiral iron guides installed when using 11/32" or 5/16" valves.

The hand drill K-Line reamer like the video above is used as a rough early step in the process to ream the original guide large enough to press in the guide liner before the precision step of broaching the liner to the desired valve clearance, and a quality machinist will use the bit not in a hand drill but on a sliding table drill press or the like to stay away from the kind of wobbling seen in the video and to ensure every guide is reamed exactly perpendicular to the rocker towers. That reamer is not designed and won't work properly to resurface existing guides that are worn out of round, especially with a hand drill and with worn seats that may throw off the bushing alignment. Using the hand drill reamer to finish the guide will likely lead to multiple valve train issues including burned valves due to improper seal, premature valve and liner wear due to slop in the guide and fluctuating rocker tip geometry, and poor and fluctuating rocker tip geometry due to slop in the guide.

Most oversized valve stems went out of production decades ago when machining processes evolved (such as the guide liner) since reaming the guides for larger valve stems requires the same amount of labor as installing guide liners and standard-sized valve stems are less expensive than oversized valve stems.



The guides are visually NOT out of round. I don't have/need glasses. The picture is an opticall illusion. I will post better pictures. I can't insert a 9.5 mm feeler gauge in the exhaust guides, that is .374. A round .373 hardly slips in from the chamber side. So I Could get away with the smallest oversize valves. Some play is required, especially on the exhaust side. BTW, oversize exhaust valves for the 68+ heads are readily available and still in production.

Also, the seats are not bad. Of course after 350+K the are valves somewhat sunk, but not much and the remaining 3 exhaust valves seal 100%. The ONE leak on the center "manifold heat passage" valve occurred not because of guide wear (they all have the same wear) but because (as I mentioned before) a not so nice prepared port. This valve couldn't sink any further into the head, like the others, where the 45° seat blends into the 90° port and hit the cast surface. This exhaust runner is different than the other, because of the heat riser passage. So guide wear wasn't the reason.

Regarding the video, I wouldn't let this guy work on my heads, but look closely, the wobbling is not the shank, it is some collar on the drill and even if, bad practice has nothing to do with the method itself.
IF YOU YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, the job with a cone as a guide for reaming is just as precise as with the most expensive machine and will last. If there is no play in the cone that fits the seat, there is no room for error, even if you use a drill from the 1910s. Depends on if you are skilled mechanic with a "hand" for such things. After all, this is no NASA stuff and I'd be willing to bet, that I purchased my car with well used, beyond limits, valve guides 34+ years ago and meanwhile I drove 100 000s of trouble free miles.
The machine shop procedure is great and just as precise, only if it is followed by seat job, something I don't plan do do.





Edited by 1960fury 2022-05-31 8:42 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2022-06-01 12:48 PM (#621858 - in reply to #621842)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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1960fury - 2022-05-31 5:39 PM
The guides are visually NOT out of round.


It's hard to measure, but valve guides do usually wear out of round; this is due to the wiping action of the rocker arm as it passes over the valve stem...tends to pull the valve stem toward the arm's fulcrum.
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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-01 8:13 PM (#621868 - in reply to #621858)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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57chizler - 2022-06-01 12:48 PM

1960fury - 2022-05-31 5:39 PM
The guides are visually NOT out of round.


It's hard to measure, but valve guides do usually wear out of round; this is due to the wiping action of the rocker arm as it passes over the valve stem...tends to pull the valve stem toward the arm's fulcrum.


Yes, of course they are, wear is rarely uniform, that is why I said visually. You can't see it, it is about 0,1mm out of round. I also said that I'll use roller rockers in the future, to decrease the side load on the stem. If I decide to change to soft brass/copper guides, they propably won't last another 63 years.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-06-01 9:18 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-02 7:18 PM (#621885 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Meanwhile I performed a leak down test on the drivers side. Same thing, but not quite as bad, leakage from the opposite #5 Cylinder exhaust valve, also the heat passage valve. All others are perfect. No coincidence, I bet. I was hoping to get away with one side for the summer, as I want to DRIVE! Ok, let the porting beginn.....
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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-05 5:28 PM (#621934 - in reply to #621885)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Received the new valves (8), supposedly Mcquay-Norris. Of course nothing goes without problems in my world. The Ebay seller send me 2 junk ones. One flaw makes me wonder if these are factory rejects or really Mcquay ones, since no reputable manufacturer would let such an obvious flaw pass. There is a crack that extends into the machined area and is not just superficial. The other has a deep nick in the seat area, that can't be polished out.

Good thing, they are .0025 bigger than the old ones and have noticeable less play. I measured the side play (don't have the factory tool that holds the vealve open at a specific height, so went by the picture in the FSM) and 3 of the 4 guides are barely ok. I KNOW that it is not a good idea to run the new valves that way, since the guides are not round, but if they charge me an arm and a leg at the machine shop, or for adding (spaying) metal to the old valve stems, I will do. I'm sure it will outlive me that way.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-06-05 5:34 PM




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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-12 7:45 PM (#622088 - in reply to #621934)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Here you can see the same port/guide after cleaning and some porting. I inserted a valve from the other side to show the play. It appears still round.
I see now why the 324 heads are not very popular in the Mopar world, esp the exhaust side. Anyway, it is what it is/what I have and these were good for 150+ mph in 1960 and for me in unported condition and I will squeeze out every horse I can get.

I watched the vids of David Vizard on YT. This guy is a legend. You got to see his videos. He started with Hot Rodding in the 50s. 60+ years of building race engines experience. Supposedly he ported/chamber modified 80 +HP out of an Edelbrock head. Hard to believe. He builds 94 Octane smooth idling SBC's with 600+HP.

Here is a random video from David Vizard on reversing pistons. You got to see all his vids. I learned a lot! Like and subscribe his channel, that seems to be very important for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq1mPjRJBpM

Edited by 1960fury 2022-06-12 10:39 PM




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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-12 8:10 PM (#622089 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBpf9nYyu6g
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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-13 10:24 AM (#622106 - in reply to #621815)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Powerflite - 2022-05-30 11:49 PM

Just replace the guides. When I replaced the guides in my 331 hemi, it cost me $80 labor + $80 for the new exhaust guides. Cheap. This isn't something that is long forgotten that no other car uses anymore. They all use valves and any good shop should be able to handle it well. Just find a good shop you trust.


Got an estimate (that is always at least 10% off in the wrong direction for the customer): $1600 for both heads. That is what I guessed. I rather buy a set of aluminum head assembly for that money. Only the missing heat crossover passage makes me hesitate.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-06-13 7:34 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-14 7:02 PM (#622139 - in reply to #622088)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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1960fury - 2022-06-12 7:45 PM


I see now why the 324 heads are not very popular in the Mopar world, esp the exhaust side.


Of course 521 heads.

Frustrating thing is, that I actually found 1.60 valves with oversized stem, thanks to the post from Dave with the part numbers, but the guy won't sell it to me, because his shop is "closed" and the way he responded gives no hope that that he will budge.
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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-30 6:11 PM (#622497 - in reply to #622139)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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A little update, (if someone is interested). Ported the heads.... quite a job, for the first time I went all out, following David Vizards recommendations and those from the Mopar Performance book. Many hours of grinding always with the risk of ruining the heads and the previous hours of work. Almost done now, some detailing/fine work and still have to sandblast the intake runners for a rough surface.

Already checked the seats and amazingly they are, after 63 years of almost daily use (and the valve stem play), 99.99% round. Thin layer of machinist dye and this (pic2) is how the worst looked after 5 seconds with fine lapping compound. Just a little shadow, hard to see, I don't think I will use the course lapping compound at all. But you can see how it sunk (just the 2 below mentioned valves) into the head.

Reason for the compression loss was a little ridge under the seat on both valves that also heat the intake, that kept them from sinking further into the head. I ground that ridge carefully away.

Over the last years I neglected putting lead substitute into the fuel more and more. Lesson, do not run w/o some lube in the gasoline. Unbelievable that this is the first engine repair since 1959 and it could have been a $50 fix and with leaded fuel this would never have happened!

Some pictures, note the sharp edges of the unported heads (intake runners) from bottom cut to casting, especially on the short radius.

BTW the intake guides and seats are still like new after 350+ K miles. I will just "lap" them with polishing compound.

PS in the pictures it looks as if I made the guide boss paper thin, this is not the case.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-06-30 7:28 PM




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1960fury
Posted 2022-06-30 6:32 PM (#622498 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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PPS I raised the exhaust ports quite a bit.... I hope not too much.... Does somebody know if there is water under there? I guess so even though cooling the exhaust charge makes no sense.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-06-30 6:40 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-07-19 10:43 AM (#622977 - in reply to #622498)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Blasted the ported intake runners. Didn't turn out nearly as rough as I wanted and very likely a waste of time. If nothing else, it at least created a professional looking surface.

Also found use for an 1950s AEG electric motor (I saved from the scrap years ago) for moddifing, polishing the exhaust valves. Also cleaned the intake valves, with a little "tool" that protected the 45° edge.

Watched YT videos of valve cleaning from fairly new cars with under 100k miles, that were beyond recognition! The valves on my untouched over 350K miles 63 y.o. 383 were pretty clean! Closed crankcase systems and direct FI suck.

While I had everything disassembled, I also modified/notched the driver side shorty, like I did with passenger side one year ago.

I'm about to put everything back together, with the roller rockers, at least for the summer. I think I did a major mistake when I accidently raised the ex ports too much. If it lasts....? I will see. If it does, raised exhaust ports are a good thing.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-07-19 11:00 AM




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60 Imp
Posted 2022-07-20 7:23 AM (#623021 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves


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Looks good Sid. I did the same to my Imp 413 heads and it runs good. I recon I took 35 hours on each head, first time I done this work and going very slow but my head ports look almost the same as yours. I also got into the manifolds, matching the ports and blending corners. Lots of metal in these engines! .

Steve.
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60 Imp
Posted 2022-07-20 7:31 AM (#623022 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves


2000100050025
Location: North Australia
My engine valve stem clearances were well within specification when I rebuilt my engine, this was at 101k miles. Steve.
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1960fury
Posted 2022-07-20 7:53 AM (#623024 - in reply to #623021)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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60 Imp - 2022-07-20 7:23 AM

Looks good Sid. I did the same to my Imp 413 heads and it runs good. I recon I took 35 hours on each head, first time I done this work and going very slow but my head ports look almost the same as yours. I also got into the manifolds, matching the ports and blending corners. Lots of metal in these engines! .

Steve.


Thanks Steve. Yes, it took weeks. And once you think you finished one head and start with the other, you notice, hey, I did that better on this one
and you start with the other head again... Just the masking, blasting and careful cleaning afterwards for the probably needless sandblasting took 6 hours.

Amazingly the intake valves, guides and seats are still like new (63 years!). Just the heat crossover exhaust valves (#4 and #5) were really bad.
I called the seats all 99.99 round in one post. I was wrong. I assumed, that the passenger side ex valve #4 is the thermally most stressed one
and the worst, this also has the most guide wear, but the seat on the drives side heat passage valve #5 was pretty bad for some reason.
No way to make it seal just by lapping.

I had to grind it with the tool bellow (just $20 and works just as precise as an expensive machine, if you kow what you are doing. Just takes time).
So the #5 ex valve is pretty recessed now. That is why I have to pull the heads in the nearer future again, for bigger valves. Meanwhile
I can drive my car and source the valves, hopefully.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-07-20 6:49 PM




(valve seat tool.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2022-07-25 10:58 AM (#623168 - in reply to #623022)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Just a few pics from the exhaust side. Shouldn't have any problems breathing now with the pretty mild cam I'm running. I didn't read it anywhere, but I shaped the the valve guide boss so that the valve guide opening is lowest point of the roof (so to speak) and streamlined a 360°. That should reduce the tendency that exhaust gasses enter the valve guides. Left the floors of ex and intake runners untouched.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-07-25 8:13 PM




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1960fury
Posted 2022-07-25 11:08 AM (#623169 - in reply to #623021)
Subject: RE: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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It is back on the road for a couple of days now, running perfectly. The old 383 completely changed the exhaust tone. Due to porting, headers mods or the 7% increased valve lift with the new 1.6 roller rockers, I don't know. Sounds way better.
Because of the bigger runners, I expected it to be a bit more sluggish from idle, it isn't. Divider wall in the intake cut down too.

So far the Speedmaster rockers work great and aligned perfectly. Also the adjuster bolt is in a perfect position (there is an oil hole that has to lign up) I expected problems, because these are actually made for the later motors with different push rods and rocker shaft stands. I replaced the heavy steel jam nuts and shaft spacers with aluminum ones.
I kept the OE shafts since they are much lighter and the new rockers do not ride on the 350+K miles contact surface of the OE rockers.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-07-25 8:36 PM




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Powerflite
Posted 2022-07-25 2:13 PM (#623177 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Congratulations, sounds like a success. I bet it feels a lot stronger now too, if nothing else, just from fixing the problems that it had.

I'm not familiar with the Holley carb. What is that line you have on the right side that goes to your air cleaner base?
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wizard
Posted 2022-07-25 4:00 PM (#623182 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Great going Sid, looks good and will surely breath out well
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1960fury
Posted 2022-07-25 7:47 PM (#623187 - in reply to #623177)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Thanks guys. I'm trying to reduce blowby as much as I can. That engine needs to be rebuild. Reducing exhaust backpressure reduces blowby
and at high speed the compression, with the pistons traveling at insane speed towards TDC, the compression loss is not that huge. At least
engines with worn piston rings and cylinder walls can still put out huge amounts of horsepower and the friction loss of pistons rings/cylinder walls
is virtually gone. My engine still idles glass smooth, so I will drive it that way as long as I can.

The exhaust tone is much, much deeper now. It never sounded good at idle with the glasspacks, not 30+ years ago, when it was tighter and of course not over
the last months with the compression loss via the valves, but now I could listen to it for hours.
Last night I idled past a guy in my hometown who knows my car since the 80s. We occasionally talk for years, since he is into old cars too,
no friendship just the usual talk, he owns a couple of old British sports cars. This time he followed me to where I parked and said
"your car sounds just awesome". He didn't know that I had any modifications done and he never said that before.
The whole exhaust systems remained unchanged, other than the header "notching"^ on the drivers side.
I think it picked up power. Because I have a patched rear tire I can't make any prolonged full thottle runs, but had it briefly to 120 mph a few days ago.
At least the earsplitting sound at WOT turned into a deafening, ear bleeding sound now

Nathan, that is the Holley version of the old Autolite 4100. My favorite carb with annular discharge boosters and that is the air line for the
choke pull off, which is the same on all Holley carbs. Holley just uses a metal mesh to filter the air that eventually gets clogged in the oily
environment under the hood, leading to cold start stalling. Hard to track down, if you don't know the problem. I simply fabricated an adapter from
an old tire valve stem and routed a line to the air cleaner base, so it gets filtered air.
Note, I converted the choke from electric to divorced/mechanical, like OE. Works great.


Edited by 1960fury 2022-07-26 10:54 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-07-26 10:48 AM (#623202 - in reply to #623187)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Here is the Holley choke assembly/wo cover. It draws air thru the opening which is needed to pull the choke plate open.
If the fine mesh in the opening becomes clogged, the engine will stall and die during cold starts, causing fouled plugs and cylinder
wall oil washdown. Just route a line to the AC hsg or stick a fuel filter in it. That works too.
BTW, I have the aluminum version of this, bought new and the passage from the inlet opening to the outlet in the housing wasn't drilled
Also most or many of these come adjusted wrong from the factory, so the piston is stuck in the bore. Holley quality.... These small things can easily ruin
and spoil the fun of a good engine.

Edited by 1960fury 2022-07-26 10:52 AM




(holleychoke.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2022-10-17 10:13 AM (#624928 - in reply to #623202)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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A little update, after about 3500 miles. I couldn't be happier. Car runs like a clock with noticeable more power. I wanted to drive not as I use to,
with one recessed valve and a patched tire, but I couldn't resist. A new Audi S5 challenged me, brake checking me to a standstill, followed by full throttle.
Before I knew what he was up to, he was gone, but I pulled up to him later down the road. I really didn't expect my worn out 350+K miles 383 to have any chances,
I just wanted to know how it does (and that car had an out of county license, so probably no loss in reputation )

So when he floored it on a long straight stretch of the road, so did I... I guess I will never grow up. Much to my surprise, I stayed with him
and even gained slowly on the Audi, we ran out of road, but I would have passed him. Considering the fact, that my car is hindered by the beloved,
but not so sporty 3 speed push button Flite from a 61 Imperial (that shifts too early), while the other car had a sophisticated 7+ speed transmission,
that is not a bad outcome for a 63 year old street cruiser! Also I was running temporary the heavy parking brake drum, so a 10-15 horse loss.

I guess I did something right, when I ported the heads. It sounds great too. I'm around these cars for 40 years, heard them all, but my little old
stock cammed Wedge sounds better than a 426 Hemi now. Here is a little impression, keep in mind the cell phone cam audio does not do it justice, play it loud!:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rsKaS-MlkDg

Edited by 1960fury 2022-10-17 8:06 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2022-10-27 7:16 PM (#625205 - in reply to #624928)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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I forgot, here is how the lifters looked after about 370K miles/63 years... There is not the slightest wear, nothing. Like brand new. How many times went that cam over it? How is that possible?



(600 000K lifter1.jpg)



(600K lifter2.jpg)



(600K lifter3.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2023-07-31 9:36 PM (#631062 - in reply to #625205)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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Update, now, exacly 1 year later, after thousands of trouble free miles, I couldn't be happier. The new roller rockers perform flawlessly
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1960fury
Posted 2024-08-21 9:26 PM (#636663 - in reply to #621749)
Subject: Re: 58-67 Oversize (stem) Big Block exhaust valves



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2 years later, engine still runs like a clock. Also the Titanium retainers added last year perform flawlessly, just like the roller rockers.
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