|
 1955-56 2dr and 4dr Lancer Rear Window Area MinutiaeJump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Body, Glass, Interior and Trim | Message format |
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900     Location: Lower Mainland BC | . I had just “finished” starting a thread about rehabbing the 55-56 Dodge sedan C-pillars. I didn’t want the 55-56 Dodge Lancer folks to feel left out  , so I wanted to start a Lancer C-pillar thread. The previous sedan C-pillar post/thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=78075&... So this new post started out to be about rehabbing the C-pillar behind the 55 and 56 2dr and 4dr Lancer C-pillar trim. I thought it was going to be easy and straight forward. *BUT* I was wrong. Very wrong. ?? Let me begin by stating the obvious: Lancer was the name that the Dodge brass gave to the 2 dr hardtops in 1955. This carried over into the 1956 2dr hardtops and was then applied to the, new for 1956, four door hardtops. (The Lancer designation also applied to the convertibles and then on into the 1957 model year (and beyond)). This post is only about the 1955 2dr Lancer hardtops and the 1956 2dr and 4dr Lancer hardtops. Not convertibles and not 1957 and up. Just 1956. I don’t have a 56 Lancer (I have a 56 Custom Royal sedan) so to attempt this post, I had to rely on photos that I have collected/archived and my parts numbers “library” which is comprised of the 1955-58 Mopar Passenger Car Parts List and the 1955-56 Mopar Collision Damage parts catalogue. If you haven’t already done so, the main 1955-58 Parts list is available for download at MyMopar: https://mymopar.com/parts-manuals/ I also snagged a stand-alone 55-56 Mopar Collision Damage parts catalogue off eBay. This collision damage info is also at the back of the original red covered hard cover 55-58 Mopar parts list (which I also own). Anyway, between those two main sources, I was able to determine *most* of the PNs for the various Lancer-related rear window and C-pillar parts. Mostly I was surprised by the differences between the sedans and the Lancers. Some of those differences are because the Lancer roof is probably about 1.5” lower than the sedans so the front windshield and the rear window heights are shorter. As a result, even the basic C-pillar side covers have different PNs than the sedan covers. It should be noted that what we call a “2 door hardtop”, the factory actually called them the “Special Club Coupe” (Sp. Cl. Cp) in both 1955 and 1956. In addition, the new 1956 4 door hardtop, was called a “Special 4 Door Sedan” (Sp. 4 D. Sed. ). Both 2dr and 4dr hardtops were also called “Lancer”s and were so designated with front fender badging. All that said, these 2 dr and 4 dr Lancers, with their shorter rear windows, had upper stainless trim with 1599 652 upper rear window stainless, 1599 653 lower rear window stainless and 1599 682 right side and 1599 683 left side trim. My 1956 Custom Royal Sedan is equipped with comparable but different PN trim. So far so good? Hang in there, it gets more exciting/confusing. Now the first deviation: There is a second lower window stainless trim piece on both the 2dr and 4dr Lancers. This is not present on the 2 dr and 4 dr sedan. This lower Lancer rear window trim seems to be referred to as a “Belt” Moulding. The 2dr and 4dr part numbers for this belt moulding differ because the trim at the bottom of the side window extension is different between 2 drs and 4 drs. The 2dr belt moulding part number is PN 1599 667. The trim that sits at the bottom of the 2 dr Lancer C-pillar (PNs 1599 665 (L) (and 666 (R)) and covers both the bottom of the side window extension and the end of the belt moulding. The “belt” moulding for the bottom of the 4dr Lancer rear window has PN 1681 825 - at least according to the 55-56 Collision damage parts catalogue - *BUT* when I check that PN in the 55-58 Mopar parts catalogue, I get a “No matches were found” result. (???) Not true for the 2dr Lancers. I get a hit for1599 667 in both the 55-56 Collision Damage catalogue and the 55-58 Parts catalogue. I have no explanation why there is no second hit for the 1681 825 4dr hardtop belt trim. (???) The 4dr Lancer side window/roof extensions are different than the equivalent 2dr Lancer pieces because the method of attachment is different. The 2dr pieces are screwed to the body at the bottom and need the bottom covers to hide the screws. The 4 dr pieces are screwed to the rear door door jambs and clipped to holes in the body. They do not need an extra trim piece to cover the attachment screws. As a result, they are also shorter at the belt line, meaning that the lower rear window belt line trim needs to be longer than the equivalent 2dr belt line trim which is covered by the C-pillar bottom covers (which just clip into the holes in the body). The “Roof, Side rail extensions (above belt)” for the 4 door Lancer hardtops have two series of PNs, i.e. 1681 206/207 (R/L) for the Coronets (no holes for the attachment of the Medallions) and 1682 110/111 for the Royals and Custom Royals (two holes per side for mounting the Medallions). That said, I have NOT found a real life example photo of any 56 Coronet 4dr hardtops. I have found examples of both Royal and Custom Royal 4 dr hardtops (with medallions) and NOS examples of the 1682 110/111 Medallion base side rail extensions. Maybe the 4 dr hardtop Coronets (Body code 814) were theoretical (as per the 56 Dodge sales brochure) but none were ever build (???) In contrast, the equivalent 2 dr Lancer “Roof, side rail extensions (above belt)” for the 1955-56 Sp.Cl.Cp., for the 1955 D55-2 and D55-3 and the 1956 D63, actually just called “on roof panel” only had one set of PNs that I can find, i.e. 1578 224 (right) and 225 (left). No separate PNs for the Coronets. I think that this makes sense for the 1955 cars because as far as I can tell all the 1955 Coronet, Royal and Custom Royal 2dr Lancer hardtops got the 1599 544 medallions. However, it doesn’t make sense for the 56 Coronets. I have photos of 1956 Coronet 2 dr Lancer hardtops with the roof side rail extensions WITHOUT holes to mount the 1599 544 medallions. On that basis, there SHOULD BE separate PNs for the Coronet 2 dr Lancer side rail extensions. I’ve looked (and looked) but I can’t find any such PNs.  The 56 Dodge Factory Service Manual (FSM) has instructions to remove the C-pillar trim on a 2dr hardtop but nothing regarding the 4drs. Presumably the instructions were written for the 1955 Dodge Lancers when there were no 4 dr Lancers and when 1956 came along with the 4dr Lancers, that section was NOT updated. That said, once you see the screw on the bottom of the 4dr C-pillar trim at the door jamb, I think that things would be pretty self-evident for the next steps. If you removed all the C-pillar and rear window trim and the rear window glass, you would be looking at rather slender C-pillars, as shown in the last photos in this lead post. *IF ANY ONE KNOWS OF A 4 DR CORONENT LANCER PHOTO THAT SHOWS THE C-PILLAR TRIM WITH NO MEDALLION PLEASE POST IT UP HERE* (THANKS)  (55CustomRoyalLancerV8.jpg) (55RoyalLancerV8.jpg) (55CoronetlLancerV8.jpg) (56CustomRoyalLancer.jpg) (56CoronetlLancerV8.jpg) (56Coronet4drLancer.jpg) (56Dodge4drLancerRoofSideRailExtensionsCoronetRoyalAndCustomRoyalPNss.jpg) (56Dodge2drLancerCollisionDamage_small_Annotated.jpg) (55Dodge2drLancerRearWindowTrim_1_Annotated.jpg) (56DodgeCoronet2drLancerRearWindowAreaTrim.jpg) (56Coronet2drLancerNoMedallion_3.jpg) (55-562drLancerLowerBeltMouldingTrimPN1599665_666_TopSide.jpg) (55-562drLancerLowerBeltMouldingTrimPN1599665_666_BottomSideShowingSpringClips.jpg) (56DodgeRemovingQuarterTrimMoulding.jpg) (56DodgeRemovingCPillarRelatedMouldings.jpg) (56DodgeRemovingCPillarRelatedMouldings_RemovingLowerTrim_2drHardtop.jpg) (ArizonaBoneYardLancerMedallionAsFoundByDelS.jpg) (55LancerRoofExtension_RightSide_LowerAttachmentDetail.jpg) (55LancerRoofExtension_LeftSide_LowerAttachmentDetail.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_Annotated.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_Detail.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_NOS_1682111_ShowingLowerScrewHole.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_Detail_CloseUpShowingScrew.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide_Detail.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide_NOS_1682110_ShowingLowerScrewHole.jpg) (56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide_Detail_CloseUpShowingScrewHead.jpg) (55-56DodgeLancerCPillarMedallion_PN1599544.jpg) (55-562drLancerCPillarrTrimAnd1599544Medallion.jpg) (564drLancerCPillarrTrimAnd1599544Medallion.jpg) (1956-dodge-coronet-bare-metal-body-mock-up-CPillar_Right.jpg) (1956-dodge-coronet-bare-metal-body-mock-up-CPillar_Left.jpg) Attachments ----------------  55CustomRoyalLancerV8.jpg (40KB - 71 downloads) 55RoyalLancerV8.jpg (47KB - 61 downloads) 55CoronetlLancerV8.jpg (58KB - 69 downloads) 56CustomRoyalLancer.jpg (52KB - 67 downloads) 56CoronetlLancerV8.jpg (99KB - 64 downloads) 56Coronet4drLancer.jpg (45KB - 69 downloads) 56Dodge4drLancerRoofSideRailExtensionsCoronetRoyalAndCustomRoyalPNss.jpg (134KB - 64 downloads) 56Dodge2drLancerCollisionDamage_small_Annotated.jpg (196KB - 66 downloads) 55Dodge2drLancerRearWindowTrim_1_Annotated.jpg (137KB - 70 downloads) 56DodgeCoronet2drLancerRearWindowAreaTrim.jpg (75KB - 72 downloads) 56Coronet2drLancerNoMedallion_3.jpg (97KB - 71 downloads) 55-562drLancerLowerBeltMouldingTrimPN1599665_666_TopSide.jpg (196KB - 62 downloads) 55-562drLancerLowerBeltMouldingTrimPN1599665_666_BottomSideShowingSpringClips.jpg (166KB - 65 downloads) 56DodgeRemovingQuarterTrimMoulding.jpg (137KB - 69 downloads) 56DodgeRemovingCPillarRelatedMouldings.jpg (209KB - 69 downloads) 56DodgeRemovingCPillarRelatedMouldings_RemovingLowerTrim_2drHardtop.jpg (119KB - 69 downloads) ArizonaBoneYardLancerMedallionAsFoundByDelS.jpg (155KB - 65 downloads) 55LancerRoofExtension_RightSide_LowerAttachmentDetail.jpg (183KB - 65 downloads) 55LancerRoofExtension_LeftSide_LowerAttachmentDetail.jpg (139KB - 68 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_Annotated.jpg (160KB - 73 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_Detail.jpg (84KB - 74 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_NOS_1682111_ShowingLowerScrewHole.jpg (125KB - 63 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_LeftSide_Detail_CloseUpShowingScrew.jpg (102KB - 66 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide.jpg (84KB - 67 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide_Detail.jpg (76KB - 69 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide_NOS_1682110_ShowingLowerScrewHole.jpg (119KB - 65 downloads) 56DodgeLancer4drLancer_CPillar_RightSide_Detail_CloseUpShowingScrewHead.jpg (93KB - 68 downloads) 55-56DodgeLancerCPillarMedallion_PN1599544.jpg (88KB - 68 downloads) 55-562drLancerCPillarrTrimAnd1599544Medallion.jpg (63KB - 64 downloads) 564drLancerCPillarrTrimAnd1599544Medallion.jpg (48KB - 62 downloads) 1956-dodge-coronet-bare-metal-body-mock-up-CPillar_Right.jpg (46KB - 65 downloads) 1956-dodge-coronet-bare-metal-body-mock-up-CPillar_Left.jpg (68KB - 66 downloads) | ||
| |||
| JedRhule |
| ||
Veteran Posts: 101 Location: Palm Beach County Florida | |||
| |||
| 56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | JedRhule - 2022-12-19 7:11 PM As always, you provide us with a detailed, comprehensive and through coverage of this repair. It is also well timed, as I will have to have my back glass removed next month to replace the headliner. Thank you for sharing this with us. You're welcome Gerard. You were one of the 56 Dodge folks that I was thinking would be interested in this info. Now if I could only find a real photo of a Coronet 4dr Lancer. I remembered in the middle of the night that I had posted images from the 1956 Lancer brochure, like this (showing no 1599 544 medallions for the Coronets, therefore different, hole-less roof side extensions): REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=70398&... Edited by 56D500boy 2022-12-21 10:51 AM | ||
| |||
| 56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Our good friend frwl (Igor) just sent me an email with photos of a 56 Coronet 4dr V8 hardtop Lancer. Curiously, same colour combo (Paint Code 273) as the brochure car. Main point is the Coronet Lancers (either 2 dr or 4 dr) did not leave the factory with the 1599 544 C-pillar medallions. Just a plain, shiny, roof extension piece (with no extra holes). Thanks Igor for these images: (56DodgeCoronet4drLancer_1.jpg) (56DodgeCoronet4drLancer_2.jpg) (56DodgeCoronet4drLancer_3.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56DodgeCoronet4drLancer_1.jpg (111KB - 63 downloads) 56DodgeCoronet4drLancer_2.jpg (89KB - 71 downloads) 56DodgeCoronet4drLancer_3.jpg (115KB - 73 downloads) | ||
| |||
| 56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . I don't know why I am "shocked" by this: the 1955-56 Dodge Roof panels were different than the sedan roof panels. Maybe because of length or curvature. It it was length, there was an additional spin-off: The panel between the bottom of the rear window opening and front edge of the trunk was different, probably in width but also because the Lancer ones have holes to accommodate the clips need to hold that final, bottom, trim to the car. I didn't know about the clips and the holes until Gerard W. (JefRule) sent me photos of his 56 Dodge 4dr Lancer trim that he is removing for a headliner replacement (FSM says the rear window needs to come out to replace the headliner). Gerard's photos show how that final "belt" trim is attached by studded (10-24) clips in the middle section and spring clips on the tighter outer curves (where access from the trunk would be difficult/impossible). I did not know that, so thank you very much Gerard. Some info and photos, starting with photos of 56 Custom Royal 2 dr Lancer undergoing full restoration showing rear window belt moulding clip holes after paint removal: Edited by 56D500boy 2023-02-11 4:56 PM (LancerBodyShowingRearWindowDeckAndRoof.jpg) (LancerBodyShowingRearWindowDeckAndRoof_Detail.jpg) (55-56LancerRoofPanelPN1695413vsSedans1695412.jpg) (55-56LancerRearWindowDeckPNs_1627947vs1627945Sedans.jpg) (55-56DodgeLancerRearWindowLowerBeltMoulding1681825_TopSide.jpg) (55-56DodgeLancerRearWindowLowerBeltMoulding1681825_BottomSideShowingClipChannel.jpg) (55-56DodgeLancerRearWindowLowerBeltMoulding_TrimClipHoles.jpg) (LancerRearBeltMouldingTrimClip_10-24Stud.jpg) (LancerRearBeltMouldingTrimClip_AttachmentNutAccessedInTrunk.jpg) (LancerRearBeltMouldingTrimClip_TwistedWireSpringClip.jpg) Attachments ---------------- LancerBodyShowingRearWindowDeckAndRoof.jpg (149KB - 60 downloads) LancerBodyShowingRearWindowDeckAndRoof_Detail.jpg (145KB - 57 downloads) 55-56LancerRoofPanelPN1695413vsSedans1695412.jpg (147KB - 58 downloads) 55-56LancerRearWindowDeckPNs_1627947vs1627945Sedans.jpg (148KB - 54 downloads) 55-56DodgeLancerRearWindowLowerBeltMoulding1681825_TopSide.jpg (149KB - 60 downloads) 55-56DodgeLancerRearWindowLowerBeltMoulding1681825_BottomSideShowingClipChannel.jpg (147KB - 58 downloads) 55-56DodgeLancerRearWindowLowerBeltMoulding_TrimClipHoles.jpg (142KB - 58 downloads) LancerRearBeltMouldingTrimClip_10-24Stud.jpg (138KB - 59 downloads) LancerRearBeltMouldingTrimClip_AttachmentNutAccessedInTrunk.jpg (146KB - 64 downloads) LancerRearBeltMouldingTrimClip_TwistedWireSpringClip.jpg (146KB - 53 downloads) | ||
| |||
| 56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9900 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . While looking for something else, I bumped into the this diagram in the 1956 Chrysler Factory Service Manual (FSM) (below). Might have helped me sort out the 55-56 Dodge trim names/PNs. (56ChryslerRearWindowTrimDiagramShowingTheVariousPartsNames.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56ChryslerRearWindowTrimDiagramShowingTheVariousPartsNames.jpg (143KB - 53 downloads) | ||
| |||
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
| (Delete all cookies set by this site) | |
