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55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-01-25 6:18 PM (#627235)
Subject: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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Some time ago I said:

56D500boy - 2021-01-19 7:44 AM

.
My car came to me already equipped with an Echlin electric choke comprised of an electrical relay, the choke activation element (a plate with an electrically heated bi-metal spring) and the wiring. I haven't had a problem with it.

That said, if I had the OE components (which I do not), like the heat tube, the insulation, the mechanically heated choke disc, I would be just as happy or maybe even happier. I would make my 56 Dodge look like this 1955 Dodge, choke-wise:



But for me to go Sid's OE way, I would have to find the hot-air cover, the air tube and the insulation. I can find the cover on eBay and/or Hiltop Mopar. Probably have to make the hot air tube.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/302140561920?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=...




Well, as it happens, as of this AM I will be the owner of a heat-tube bi-metal coil spring choke system that happens to be attached to a refurbished 56 D500 Carter 2443S WCFB.
However, I have no clue (what else is new ) about the heat tube from the exhaust manifold to the choke fitting or whether I need to have a heat riser (currently there is no heat riser).

When I get the carb, I will have (more) questions:





Edited by 56D500boy 2023-01-25 6:21 PM




(CarterWCFB_2443S_1_small.jpg)



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dels56
Posted 2023-01-25 7:08 PM (#627237 - in reply to #627235)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube


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Nice looking carb. The heat tube should not be difficult to make up, just a couple of fittings a some finesse in bending. The asbestos heat shield may be a bit of an issue. There are various types heat shield available in different colours if you are not stuck on OE.
Del
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wizard
Posted 2023-01-26 11:55 AM (#627245 - in reply to #627235)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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Dave, I use welding rods for to make the template for tubing. It's not difficult to bend the steel tubes, count on some waste though
Below, a photo of a Buick 58 that I installed 3x2 carburators and some goodies on. You can see the asbestos heat shield around the tube.
I have made heat shielding that is very simular out of headers heat insulation, pulled out a starnd and used that for to sew it together.
It's a painful job, count on itchy hands for a while, but the result is very satisfying.

I don't have any photos of my homemade heat insulation ....



(20210507_104300-rez.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2023-01-26 12:35 PM (#627246 - in reply to #627235)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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As for the butterfly valve (heat riser), yes, you must have it, otherwise the car will run on choke far to long time.
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'55-3Hemi
Posted 2023-02-01 8:51 AM (#627306 - in reply to #627235)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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This may help for choke tube insulation.  I made a choke tube for my 1955 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer 270 4bbl and found a supplier for the tube wrap that looks almost like the factory wrap. Not sure how to link my old post but here is the information from my post

[2018-02-12 1:00 pm (#557962) - Engine,Exhaust, Fuel and Ignition. Also some more information  [2021-04-04 8:52 AM (# 610685)]

Robert

 

 



Edited by '55-3Hemi 2023-02-01 9:22 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-01 10:19 AM (#627308 - in reply to #627306)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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'55-3Hemi - 2023-02-01 5:51 AM
This may help for choke tube insulation.  I made a choke tube for my 1955 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer 270 4bbl and found a supplier for the tube wrap that looks almost like the factory wrap. Not sure how to link my old post but here is the information from my post


Thanks. Found your old post:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67940&...

This is the first time I have seen the exhaust manifold end of the tube. I don't understand it. Does it go over or into the nipple on the exhaust manifold?

Looks like the tubing was swaged to go into the manifold tube but what is the crimped fitting?



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-02-01 10:21 AM




(OneExampleHeatTube_ExhaustManifoldEnd.jpg)



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Attachments OneExampleHeatTube_ExhaustManifoldEnd.jpg (144KB - 55 downloads)
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'55-3Hemi
Posted 2023-02-01 11:11 AM (#627309 - in reply to #627308)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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I listed another post with more pictures 2021-04-04 8;52 am #610685) I will post more detail pictures, I will take it off the car to show that the ends were flared.



Edited by '55-3Hemi 2023-02-01 11:26 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-01 7:03 PM (#627321 - in reply to #627309)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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I can't find the post that you refer to Robert, but I did find another that had this in it:



Which now shows up slightly differently at NAPA

https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/OES6101114?impressionRank=1



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-02-01 9:06 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-02 6:21 PM (#627335 - in reply to #627321)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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Picked up the eBay Carter 2443S WCFB this AM. It is very pretty. Excellent job by Ted (mopar2mopar (1443)).

The Carter filter is a new variety to me. I will do a separate post on that one.

On the way home from Point Roberts WA (my US shipment address), I stopped at Lordco (sort of an O'Reilly's) and picked up a 1/4" x 30" double flared steel line. Fitting is correct but the tube size seems tiny.





(eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChokeAndStrangeCarterFuelFilter.jpg)



(eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChoke.jpg)



(eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChoke_With1_4InchFuelLineInChokeHousing.jpg)



(eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChoke_With1_4InchFuelLineDetails.jpg)



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Attachments eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChokeAndStrangeCarterFuelFilter.jpg (144KB - 58 downloads)
Attachments eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChoke.jpg (143KB - 56 downloads)
Attachments eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChoke_With1_4InchFuelLineInChokeHousing.jpg (142KB - 61 downloads)
Attachments eBay2443SWithThermalMechanicalChoke_With1_4InchFuelLineDetails.jpg (146KB - 59 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-02-02 6:45 PM (#627337 - in reply to #627235)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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1/4" tube sounds about right for the choke. What's wrong with it? Once you cover it in asbestos, it will look bigger, but the paint on it might burn off. So you might want to use a nickel-plated tube instead.

Edited by Powerflite 2023-02-02 6:51 PM
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'55-3Hemi
Posted 2023-02-06 11:42 AM (#627386 - in reply to #627321)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=75508&posts=4#M610734

Found the old post about making the choke tuibe and selecting the fittings to connect the exhaust manifiold and WCFB 4BBL CHOKE cover.

I had no issues about the choke taking a long time to heat up without a heat riser.

I will mention that a lot of work was done to the exhaust manifold with respect to the choke tube heat chamber. Mine was completely clogged up with rust and crap. I removed what was left of the choke tube and sand blasted the heat chamber. Made sure that the air inlet for the chamber was open (Hole just above where the heat riser is mounted).   Pressed in the replacement tube (3/8").  More pictures to follow 





(1955 Dodge Exhaust Manifold choke tube in Choke chamber.jpg)



(20230201_161329.jpg)



(20230201_162259.jpg)



(1955 Dodge Choke tube with compression fitting hooked to exhaust manifold.jpg)



(20230201_161049.jpg)



(20230201_161403.jpg)



(20230201_162713.jpg)



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Attachments 1955 Dodge Exhaust Manifold choke tube in Choke chamber.jpg (70KB - 55 downloads)
Attachments 20230201_161329.jpg (34KB - 51 downloads)
Attachments 20230201_162259.jpg (49KB - 55 downloads)
Attachments 1955 Dodge Choke tube with compression fitting hooked to exhaust manifold.jpg (58KB - 60 downloads)
Attachments 20230201_161049.jpg (38KB - 62 downloads)
Attachments 20230201_161403.jpg (39KB - 62 downloads)
Attachments 20230201_162713.jpg (88KB - 55 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-06 5:34 PM (#627394 - in reply to #627386)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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Thank you very much for those photos Robert. I only learned that the tube in the exhaust manifold is not supposed to have exhaust gasses inside it the other day when I found an old video at MyMopar that explained how the OE choke was supposed to work. It did show how the tube in the manifold is supposed to breathe in clean air (drawn through the tube by carburetor vacuum) which is then heated in the exhaust manifold before following in the asbestos-covered tube to the choke on the carb where the hot air heats a plate which in turn heats the bi-metal spring that opens the choke.

Thanks for the hint on the tubing insulation source as well.

From the MyMopar video.



(ManifoldHeatTubeActionDiagram.jpg)



(ManifoldHeatTubeActionDiagram_3.jpg)



(ManifoldHeatTubeActionDiagram_2.jpg)



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Attachments ManifoldHeatTubeActionDiagram.jpg (141KB - 56 downloads)
Attachments ManifoldHeatTubeActionDiagram_3.jpg (147KB - 61 downloads)
Attachments ManifoldHeatTubeActionDiagram_2.jpg (148KB - 56 downloads)
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Shep
Posted 2023-02-06 8:43 PM (#627398 - in reply to #627394)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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Make sure the vacuum passage in the choke housing is not blocked, was on my 55.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-06 9:24 PM (#627403 - in reply to #627386)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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Robert: I didn't realize that I had a vent hole in my right side exhaust manifold like you show in your photo. So I went out to my car and, YEP, there it is (actually I can't see it but my little Sony digital camera could)

Yours (back side):



Mine (front side) (I am pretty appalled at the state of the nut on that stud. YIKES):



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-02-06 9:27 PM




(56D500RightSideExhaustManifoldHeatTubeAirInletVentHole_1.jpg)



(56D500RightSideExhaustManifoldHeatTubeAirInletVentHole_2.jpg)



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Attachments 56D500RightSideExhaustManifoldHeatTubeAirInletVentHole_1.jpg (148KB - 59 downloads)
Attachments 56D500RightSideExhaustManifoldHeatTubeAirInletVentHole_2.jpg (149KB - 62 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-02-06 10:32 PM (#627406 - in reply to #627235)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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It'll pull the stud out when you unscrew it. Probably no biggie.

The tube on my manifold is separated inside the manifold into 2 pieces. So it would likely suck in exhaust. I suspect that many of them did as they aged with thermal expansion differences between the cast iron and steel. That's why it's best to plug those holes if you aren't going to use them too.
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local2Ed
Posted 2023-02-07 7:27 AM (#627411 - in reply to #627406)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube


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Wire brush nut and exposed threads.
Heat nut and stud, Mapp gas will do.
Melt wax, candle will do, on exposed threads.
Repeat as necessary to remove nut.
Do not apply flame if rust penetrant has been used.
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'55-3Hemi
Posted 2023-02-07 9:43 AM (#627414 - in reply to #627406)
Subject: Re: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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I was lucky in that the old  choke tube came without a lot of effort. The hard part was obtaining a long drill bit (3/8)" to clean out the area where the replacement tube is to be pressed in the exhaust manifiold. Took my time and drilled slowly.  I just tapped the replacement tube in. I had ruined the outter end when tapping it in using a ball peen hammer.  I cut off  the end and brazed the 3/8" - 1/4" fitting on. 

 

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'55-3Hemi
Posted 2023-02-08 9:45 AM (#627438 - in reply to #627403)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube - Update



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https://www.ebay.com/itm/225243793950?

Found a heat tube insert  for 55/56 Dodge Exhaust manifold 



Edited by '55-3Hemi 2023-02-08 9:57 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-08 10:32 AM (#627440 - in reply to #627438)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube - Update



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'55-3Hemi - 2023-02-08 6:45 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225243793950?
Found a heat tube insert  for 55/56 Dodge Exhaust manifold


Robert: Good find. Unfortunately, the item is now gone. Some idiot with a 56 Dodge NOS parts addiction bought it.

Oh wait....that was...



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-02-08 10:38 AM
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Retired55
Posted 2023-02-18 10:53 PM (#627705 - in reply to #627394)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube


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I was getting exhaust into my thermostatic chock cap this year.
Was a very common issue.
I replaced it with piece of 316 stainless.
Those heat tubes can still be found with some searching.
If a guy were to use standard tubbing, getting the fitment is key. The original tube has two different outside diameters one each end, designed to pass through the first and then pressed into both, the inner and outer simultaneously.
You can build a swedging block to close the where it enters the inner hole and using a 1/4 purpose built swedging rod open up the outer tube a few thousands. Cut the tube to length after it’s installed. This makes for a NOS look.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-02-19 1:39 AM (#627708 - in reply to #627705)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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I picked up a 1532 894 NOS exhaust heat tube the other day. I haven't done anything with it yet, other than compare it to the 1/4" tubing that I found will work at the choke housing. The 1/4" tubing definitely looks too small to work well with the exhaust heat tube, at least with some further action.

I think the heat tube is stainless.

To be determined.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-02-19 1:54 AM




(1532894V8ExhaustManifoldHeadTubePN_.jpg)



(1532894V8ExhaustManifoldHeadTube_with1_4inchTubingThatFitsChokeInlet.jpg)



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Attachments 1532894V8ExhaustManifoldHeadTubePN_.jpg (148KB - 47 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-01 2:37 AM (#627960 - in reply to #627708)
Subject: RE: 55-56 Carter WCFB 4 bbl choke heat tube



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From the MTSC video regarding the 1953 Dodge Red Ram (hemi) (Mentions that the heat tube is covered with "Asbestos"):



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-01 2:39 AM




(ChokeHeatTubeManifoldToChokeCoveredWithAsbestos.jpg)



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