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'55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID
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Dick K.
Posted 2023-03-16 1:32 PM (#628290)
Subject: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID


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Posts: 11

My f-i-l has just moved in with us along with his '55 Belvedere. He is no longer able to drive so I've become his chauffeur and mechanic/caretaker.

I am a Pontiac guy so way out of my element with his Plymouth. I already have lots of questions but first I'd like to identify his mostly original engine.

The Service Manual shows 3 V8 choices in '55. His is a 2 bbl so not the 4 bbl 260.

Should either be a 241 or a 260 (according to the specs, actually 259 CID).

The Service Manual shows each with a different carb but I don't think it is the original carb. Short of pulling a head and measuring the bore are there any casting p/ns that would distinguish between the 2 displacements?

The 2 bbl intake is 1409375 but google indicates that was shared.

I'm thinking a unique casting was needed for the block as I can't imagine they could overbore the same block casting by 0.125" dia. But I'm more familiar with later thin wall block castings so perhaps they could.

Maybe the cyl head casting was different?

If there was a unique casting p/n for the block and/or the cyl head, what were they and please let me know where to look for the p/ns too.

As a bit of introduction, Dick's first new car was a '55 Belvedere 2 dr. hardtop. He bought the current 4 dr. sedan several years back to remind him of his favorite car. He hasn't been able to drive it for a couple years but he enjoys knowing it is in the garage. As the weather improves, I will get him out for joy rides. Until then, I'll need to sort out some drivability issues, hopefully I can lean on the experts here for advice.

Thanks for any info on engine ID.
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wayfarer
Posted 2023-03-16 3:29 PM (#628295 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon		The real question is why is the displacement important? The 241 and 259 are essentially the same engine except, as you note, the bore. The is really no operational difference.
And yes, as you note, the blocks are different. https://www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com/?page_id=238
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-16 4:11 PM (#628297 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: RE: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
I think you might want to establish that the engine is the one original to the car.

In 1955, Plymouth wasn't quite ready with their own V8 so they raided the Dodge V8 stash for one of the Dodge polyspherical head V8s.

The Dodge engine valve covers have a rounded scallop edge bottom. When Plymouth came out with their own V8 engine in 1956, the "A", it was also a single rocker shaft head engine but the configuration was different and the valve covers were saw-toothed.

The other "tell" is the Dodge V8s had valley covers and intakes that were two separate pieces. The Plymouth "A" engines used the intake manifold as the valley cover, not separate cover.

"The first engine released to Plymouth in 1955 was the Dodge block of 241 inches, which was designed to use both Hemi and Poly heads, with Plymouth getting the latter design. In its original form, this "Poly" developed 157 HP, a good solid number. An optional 260 cu. in 167 HP version was also offered - both with a 2 barrel carb. Shortly after, a 4-barrel version was delivered that produced 177 HP."

"The 1956 Plymouths had the first A-block engines, displacing 276 cubic inches (the company advertised it as 277 cubic inches, which is how we will refer to it from now on), close to the 270 cubic inch Dodge engine. The Canadian plant in Windsor, Ontario, later that year, built a 303 cubic inch version, with a larger bore; both were made with a choice of two and four barrel carburetors."

1955:



1956 (in this case a 303 Fury - just to show the difference in the valve covers, etc):







Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-16 4:13 PM




(56FuryEngineBayWithStickerOn4bblAirCleaner.jpg)



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Attachments 56FuryEngineBayWithStickerOn4bblAirCleaner.jpg (143KB - 51 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-03-16 5:43 PM (#628299 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: So. Cal		Look for the engine number stamped on the block. You can find it next to the oil fill tube at the top of the engine, behind the water pump. Read that number to us, and we can tell you what you have.
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Dick K.
Posted 2023-03-16 5:46 PM (#628300 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID


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Posts: 11

Thanks for the replies. To answer the question, I'm just anal about details so while it probably won't ever matter to me and Dick doesn't really care, I'd just like to know.

His has the scalloped valve covers and the engine looks just like your pic except that the air cleaner lacks the Hyfire V8 decal. The valve covers are painted grey, not red. I assume whoever did the refurb didn't try for accuracy. The block is painted red. Conceivably the engine was rebuilt at some point but we have no history on the car.

I'd found the linked site before posting here. But I wasn't certain what it was telling me. The 241 isn't listed for the Plymouth.

Do I assume the '54 Dodge 241 block p/n 1551229 is the same block p/n used for the '55 Plymouth 241?

And why are two p/ns listed for the '55 Plymouth 260 (1632228 and 1632229)?

A little tease of my own history, my first car was a well worn '63 Fury 2 dr. hardtop with a 361 and pushbutton automatic. I would have been a Mopar guy today had my sister not wrecked my Fury.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-16 7:04 PM (#628303 - in reply to #628299)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Powerflite - 2023-03-16 2:43 PM
Look for the engine number stamped on the block. You can find it next to the oil fill tube at the top of the engine, behind the water pump. Read that number to us, and we can tell you what you have.


Agree. From the 55-56 Plymouth Factory Service Manual:

"ENGINE NUMBER LOCATION

The engine number is stamped on a boss on the left side at the front of the
cylinder block on the PowerFlow 6 engines. On 157, 167, and 180 horsepower
Hy-Fire V-8 engines, the number is located on top of the engine at the front,
next to the oil filler pipe. On 187 and 200 horsepower Hy-Fire V-8 engines, the
number is located on the left front face of the cylinder block."

Example from the 56 D500 engine number thread:



Example diagram of the 55-56 Dodge heads (just for fun)



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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-16 8:09 PM (#628305 - in reply to #628300)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
I believe that the engines in 1955-56 were all painted silver. Not sure about the valve covers (they were NOT on the engine when the engine was painted):

From the 1955 Plymouth video, "Wishes on Wheels":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6L0ykX9lPU

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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-16 8:21 PM (#628306 - in reply to #628305)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
P-26 = 1955 6 cylinder cars
P-27 = 1955 8 cylinder cars
p-28 = 1956 cylinder cars
P-29 = 1956 8 cylinder cars

On that basis the 55-56 Plymouth Factory Service Manual (FSM) offers this:





(55_56PlymouthEngineInfo.jpg)



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Attachments 55_56PlymouthEngineInfo.jpg (149KB - 52 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-16 8:50 PM (#628307 - in reply to #628306)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Found this. The engine number should be stamped on the block by the oil filler/breather tube.

Sold but the photos are still there:

https://www.thewestcoastclassics.com/1955-plymouth-belvedere-c-879.h...




Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-16 8:52 PM




(55PlymouthV8EngineBay.jpg)



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Attachments 55PlymouthV8EngineBay.jpg (149KB - 46 downloads)
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Dick K.
Posted 2023-03-17 12:42 PM (#628313 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID


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Posts: 11

Wow, that's the one he should have bought, same exterior color combo as the 2 dr. hardtop Dick bought new.

I knew from his VIN that it was built pretty late at Evansville, less than 3000 from the last one as elsewhere I found the range of VINs from each Assembly Plant.

The engine no. is P27-229812. The P27 prefix confirms that the engine was original to a '55 Plymouth but I don't think the sequential engine no. can tell me the displacement or whether it was original to his '55 Plymouth unless you guys know differently?

Assembly line video was cool, I'll have Dick watch it. But still don't know where to find the elusive block casting p/n!
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-03-17 2:13 PM (#628314 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Location: So. Cal		Yeah, P27 doesn't help much to discern between them. But you're not going to like the answer to your question. The casting number on my '54 Dodge 241 engine is on the back, inside the bell-housing. About the hardest place to look for it. The number is: 1551229. This might be the same casting number as the '55 Plymouth 241, but it might not be too. My guess is it is probably different.

Edited by Powerflite 2023-03-17 2:29 PM




(1954 Dodge 241 Casting Number.jpg)



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Attachments 1954 Dodge 241 Casting Number.jpg (233KB - 53 downloads)
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samstrader
Posted 2023-03-18 3:53 AM (#628327 - in reply to #628290)
Subject: RE: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID


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Location: Beaumont TX		here is the engine number, not casting number, on my 1955 Plymouth Savoy 259 V8. My family is the original owner of this car and I have the original sales receipt. This car was first sold in February 1955.




(55 Engine Number.jpg)



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Attachments 55 Engine Number.jpg (229KB - 45 downloads)
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Mopar1
Posted 2023-03-18 11:21 AM (#628337 - in reply to #628300)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Dick K. - 2023-03-16 4:46 PM

, I'm just anal about details .
Must not be too anal since you call the 259 a 260, which is a Ford....
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-18 12:32 PM (#628340 - in reply to #628337)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Mopar1 - 2023-03-18 8:21 AM
Must not be too anal since you call the 259 a 260, which is a Ford....


Umm...you must have missed this above:



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Mopar1
Posted 2023-03-18 11:52 PM (#628349 - in reply to #628340)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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56D500boy - 2023-03-18 11:32 AM

Mopar1 - 2023-03-18 8:21 AM
Must not be too anal since you call the 259 a 260, which is a Ford....


Umm...you must have missed this above:



Always been listed as a 259 everywhere else, strange.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-19 2:23 AM (#628350 - in reply to #628349)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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Mopar1 - 2023-03-18 8:52 PM
Always been listed as a 259 everywhere else, strange.


Based on the 3 9/16" bore and 3 1/4" stroke, the correct answer is 259.164

I guess the writers of the 1955-56 Plymouth Factory Service Manual (FSM) rounded that up, rather than down.

To 260.

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Mopar1
Posted 2023-03-19 11:24 AM (#628357 - in reply to #628350)
Subject: Re: '55 Plymouth Belvedere Engine ID



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56D500boy - 2023-03-19 1:23 AM

I guess the writers of the 1955-56 Plymouth Factory Service Manual (FSM) rounded that up, rather than down.

To 260.

:)
Here the 302 Ford is rounded up to 5.0, in Australia they round down & call it a 4.9, for instance.
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