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Front Sway Bar
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alumcanTandThd
Posted 2008-10-01 1:09 PM (#146536 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Neil, your two statements,,,,,,, are true,,,,,. in a way. They are true, but, lack any scientific merit. But, believe it or not, there is MORE TRUTH to a he sez-she sez, than to a scientific equation!

Now this is long winded, because I must explain in detail.

The raising of the inside rear wheel in a turn ,,,, is true, but, there are circumstances, that you are leaving out.

OK, from the beginning.

A vehicle such as these, leave the factory with COMFORTABLE RIDE designed! Notice when the performance cars were introduced, more spring leaves, bigger diameter bars, everything was stiffer. The ratio of 'family ride' vs 'performance ride' is staggering. Which is more popular. What sells the more vehicles? What is the bottom line? Grocery getters, or 300's/D-500's/etc?

The misconception of getting a 'family/comfortable ride' vehicle, (99.9%) installing a hi-performance drive train, and expecting the vehicle to have performance handling characteristics, doesn't work.
The EASIEST/CHEAPEST suspension performance upgrade, is simply, stiffer shocks, and front AND rear swaybars!
The CORRECT way, is a complete tubular A-arm, Polyurethane busining, independent suspension,,,, on and on, and on, until you have a 'Indy car, all out racing suspension, that will out perform any Viper/Corvette/Sportscar, etc. At a cost of a umpteengazzion $$.
THAT type of suspension, in the name of correct handling, is like killing a fly with a shotgun!

How far do you, and your pockets, want to go?!

Ok a happy medium. Some 'expect' 50 year old suspension design, with a simple set of radial tires to have better handling. It don't work like that.

OK Neil, lets take your '57. Lets say it came from the factory with NO front swaybar. You have a COMPLETE OEM re-built suspension!
You got those DB radial tires. They handle better than the OEM Bias. Meaning, now you can go into a certain turn at a faster speed than with the biased. (NOW I WANT YOU TO KEEP FOLLOWING ME HERE! Don't suddenly go off on one of yer tangents. Read ALL the way to the bottom!)
You think, mmmmmm,,,,,, if I now install a OEM front swaybar,,,,,,,, . MORE, IMPROVED handling! That same turn can now be taken at a higher speed. Here is where the misconception comes in. The "bigger is better" theory.
You now get rid of the soft OEM A-arm, OEM swaybar bushings, for stiffer, less give, urethane bushings. MORE improved handling! More speed into that same turn radius.
OEM rubber swaybar bushings have a built in, 2" give ratio. The vehicle gives 2" before the rubber starts to RE-act. How many rubber bushings are on the OEM framed MoPar swaybar's More than 6" of give. BUT, an improvement over nothing at all.
You now swap out the urethane bushings for the all out, POLY-urethane bushings! Better handling, able to get more speed into that same turn.

Now, you swap out the OEM diameter front swaybar for a stiffer, bigger, aftermarket diameter,,,,,,,,, less # of OEM bushings. Better handling, MORE speed into that same turn!

I'm going to stop here, for that is about as far as one can go with improvements to stock suspension.

OK, remember the part where I said, "Follow me"
You have improved the handling on your '57 so much now, that you are able to negotiate a certain radius/bank turn a considerable speed improvement!
What does all that extra speed now do to your existing suspension? Here is where it's gets scary. You have improved, up-graded, only part of the suspension. NOT ALL of it.

The faster you go into the same turn, more weight/stress is now put on the OUTSIDE, FRONT, suspension! From the tire into the frame, and everything in between.
The faster you can go, the more weight is transferred on that outside front, untill two things will happen. Something on the outside front will break, or the INSIDE REAR TIRE will lift off the ground!

There are TWO easy, feasible solutions. Slow down, or get the rear planted, so it don't lift. One thing will do that. (It's NOT stiffer rear springs. The ONLY thing stiffer rear springs will do is,,,,,, carry more downward weight ,or haul more of a load.) A REAR SWAYBAR!!!! PERIOD!!! Try it Neil. IT WORKS!!!!

Now. This suspension improvements/upgrades, is like a drug, the more one feels the improvements the more you want, the faster you can now safely negotiate a turn! As I said how far do you want to go?

A REAR swaybar in CONJUNCTION with stiffer rear springs,,,,, notice the keyword is "CONJUNCTION WITH", will now keep the rear from rising up!!

What is the best/cheapest/easiest rear swaybar upgrade? A 1" dia, '80-'96, full sized, Bronco rear bar, will ALMOST, BOLT ON to the framed MoPars! Either, an "L" bracket must be welded on the Mope frame, or an EXISTING hole in the frame enlarged, and a 3/4" OD, 1/2" ID piece of pipe welded in that hole so the boxed frame won't collapse when the Bronco link bolt mount is tightened down.
You can get those Bronco bar at you favorite U-pullit yard for $20 or so.
Now, if you want to go to Addico, PST, or a number of other aftermarket places and pay a couple of hundred dollars for a rear bar kit, it's up to you.
The ONLY upgrade needed to the Bronco bar is a urethane bushing kit.

Guy on here several yeas ago had a Red '58 Fury, did a upgrade aftermarket front bar kit, and a Bronco rear bar. AND could beat/keep up, with the "Jelly-bean" Impala SS's in the auto cross!

So, your statement Neil, of the rear wheel rising off the ground in a turn, is NOT from installing a rear bar. It's TOO much up-grade to the front and nothing to the rear!

I hope this explained it to you ,where you can now understand. If not. Get this booklet. "Handling. What it is, and how to get it" Addico puts it out. A WEALTH OF INFORMATION!!!!

Now, the synthetic oil. Again, he sez, she sez. It's gotta be good or there would be so many 'factory fills' recommendations!
Will "I" run any synthetics? HELL NO!!!! The ONLY way I will use a synthetic is if it's given to me. Then I'll dump in on my dirt road to keep the dust down. I have had NOTHING but bad luck with Synthetic's! Leak, NOT properly lubricate, etc.

Harley recommends Synthetic in the Twin Cams. I changed my Trans fill from semi-synthetic to full H-D synthetic. Supposed to be easier shifting, cooler running temps. Went out riding one night, rear started wobbling. Thought I had a rear flat. Here the fully synthetic leaked past the seal and got over the rear tire.

Have Amsoil in wifeys' Bronco. Bearings went out.

Ask just about ALL of the owner operators around here. Synthetic is a Communist plot against the US! LOL 99% use Lucas with regular dino, in the big trucks.
Mo/Corncob has a "Pete" and uses synthetics. I won't!
So I AGREE with your synthetic oil in an older vehicle statmemt. But, my statements against synthetics is ONLY by experience. NOT any scientific merit. Only opnion!
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2008-10-02 2:28 AM (#146621 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: RE: Front Sway Bar


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Where did you get that " MO uses synthetic in his Pete truck" from??? been sucking on that moonshine again??? Only thing I will use synthetic oil in is my Harley because it was engineered for synthetics. I will not use Synthetic in anything not designed for it. I like that fake oil, but I don't think it should be SO expensive.......................MO
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60 Plymouth
Posted 2008-10-02 7:01 AM (#146627 - in reply to #146621)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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can man you have made me tired ready all of that. Being from WVA that must be the longest thing you have wrote

but it was a good explanation

i don't believe in using the fake oil either my rx7 and rx8 rotory will burn up if you use that stuff in them --good ole texas tea is what my motors require.
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alumcanTandThd
Posted 2008-10-02 10:51 AM (#146664 - in reply to #146621)
Subject: RE: Front Sway Bar



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MOPAR-TO-YA - 2008-10-01 2:28 PM

Where did you get that " MO uses synthetic in his Pete truck" from???

'You' told me, a long time ago!

It cost me a couple of hundred in parts, and another hundred to take my trans to a buddy to get him in install a new seal kit, flush out Harley's full synthetic. I installed that stuff Blue-Ray makes for Harley trans! Never had a leak afterwards!
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-03 6:41 PM (#146848 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Since this website is nothing, if not argumentative, I've just located and sent to Cleeve, for posting here, one of
my references for the advisability of having ONLY a front sway bar being installed on our cars.

In the spirit of he said/she said, please post your own editorial publishing (not that that might be conclusive, to everyone!)
which might contradict this editorial commentary.........







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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-10-04 4:07 AM (#146882 - in reply to #146848)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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d500neil - 2008-10-03 11:41 PM

Since this website is nothing, if not argumentative, I've just located and sent to Cleeve, for posting here, one of
my references for the advisability of having ONLY a front sway bar being installed on our cars.

In the spirit of he said/she said, please post your own editorial publishing (not that that might be conclusive, to everyone!)
which might contradict this editorial commentary.........











(01.jpg)



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Attachments
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Attachments 01.jpg (108KB - 209 downloads)
Attachments 02.jpg (61KB - 199 downloads)
Attachments 03.jpg (53KB - 210 downloads)
Attachments 04.jpg (59KB - 196 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-04 7:49 AM (#146888 - in reply to #146848)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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d500neil - 2008-10-03 6:41 PM



In the spirit of he said/she said, please post your own editorial publishing (not that that might be conclusive, to everyone!)
which might contradict this editorial commentary.........



hmm, so we have here a 1960 magazine article writen by...? its amazing car manufacturers in the past 48 years could have saved MILLIONS of dollars if their engineers had read that article! ---
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alumcanTandThd
Posted 2008-10-05 3:23 PM (#147000 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: RE: Front Sway Bar



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Neil. There is a EXCELLENT/EASY solution to this 'scenario.'

If you feel deep in your heart, that if you install a 'rear' sway bar on your car, the inside rear tire will lift off the ground while negotiating a turn,,,,,.
Then by ALL means,,,, DON'T DO IT! Simple.

I have prooved to myself, along with reading, a rear bar does keep the 'hind end planted' in corning.

(However, all those rear bars you don't want to use, send 'em to me, I sure can put 'em to use.) LOL
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-06 3:02 PM (#147088 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Ahhh; there are none so blind as he who WILL not see, or read, or comprehend.

This article was written by the technical editor of Motor Life magazine, and, I have read and do have, stored away
in my shed, a similar article written by Richard Ehrenberg, technical editor of MoPar Action, wherein he reiterates
that a FRONT sway bar is all that we need, on our rear wheel drive front-end heavy cars.

A rear sway bar will tend to induce understeer, or straight-ahead plowing of our cars.

I don't give anything away for free, except advice, or to someone who is truly needy, in my opinion.

As Rick does not NEED a rear sway bar, if I had one, I would not give it to him (sorry Rick).

And as for Sid (poor guy) , he remains infatuated with the concept of installing synthetic gear oil into our differentials.

Read my fingers: NO rear sway bars, or synthetic rear end gear oil, is/are needed on our cars.







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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-06 3:25 PM (#147092 - in reply to #147088)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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d500neil - 2008-10-06 3:02 PM

A rear sway bar will tend to induce understeer, or straight-ahead plowing of our cars.

I don't give anything away for free, except advice,

And as for Sid (poor guy) , he remains infatuated with the concept of installing synthetic gear oil into our differentials.

Read my fingers: NO rear sway bars, or synthetic rear end gear oil, is/are needed on our cars.




yes i'm a poor guy but i know the difference between UNDERSTEER and OVERSTEER, YOU DON'T! SO PLEASE IF YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THESE SIMPLE TERMS STOP GIVING AWAY FREE TECHNICAL ADVICE SOMEONE COULD BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAY! PLEASE STICK TO DECODING DATAPLATES! THANK YOU!

PS EVEN YOUR "ARTICLE" SAYS REAR SWAY BARS INCREASE OVERSTEER YET YOU ARE INSISTING REAR SWAY BARS INDUCE UNDERSTEER??? I KNOW YOU NEVER ANSWER A QUESTION WHEN YOU GET STUCK IN A DISCUSSION BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT????

Edited by 1960fury 2008-10-06 3:41 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-06 3:33 PM (#147094 - in reply to #147088)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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d500neil - 2008-10-06 3:02 PM


A rear sway bar will tend to induce understeer, or straight-ahead plowing of our cars.




just for you neil read slowly please: breaking away of the rear wheels (to quote your article,caused by a rear sway bar) in a curve is called

OVERSTEER.

i hope you got it now?

Edited by 1960fury 2008-10-06 3:43 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-06 4:08 PM (#147097 - in reply to #147094)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Thank you, Sid, now, can YOU say; "no rear sway bar is needed on our cars"?
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-06 4:36 PM (#147100 - in reply to #147097)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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d500neil - 2008-10-06 4:08 PM

Thank you, Sid, now, can YOU say; "no rear sway bar is needed on our cars"?


NO neil because the article, although it tells partially the truth, does not tell the whole story. rear sway bars on banjo axle cars limit camber change, reduce self steer, improve straight line traction, make leaf spring bushings last longer, add safety (in case a spring breaks) and reduce body roll which means it reduces the lift of the rear end, which again improves traction (thats what the the writer of your article forgot) for every bit the rear end goes up there is less weight on the rear wheels. but yes, as i said in a previous post, REAR sway bars have the tendency to increase OVERSTEER (good drivers btw prefer tail happy cars over understeering cars) and a FRONT sway bar has the tendency to increase UNDERSTEER yet both improve handling. neil you don't have to understand this but the simple fact that car manufacturers (ENGINEERS) added and still add rear sway bars to front engine rwd cars remains. that alone should tell you what is right or wrong.


Edited by 1960fury 2008-10-06 5:47 PM
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alumcanTandThd
Posted 2008-10-06 5:16 PM (#147103 - in reply to #147100)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Go, Sic-'em Sid!! Whoo-Haw

You might as well forget it. NO amount of convincing, showing, explaining, is gonna change Neil's mind. He won't have a rear sway bar up his azz, if he had room for a freight train! So, let him go.

YOU, know a rear bar works, "I" know a rear bar works, there are several on here that knows a rear bar works, and is laughing at Neil's comments.

Let Neil be content that he's convincing the newbies on here, that a rear bar isn't needed. GOOD FOR HIM!!!
That is one less person that will cabbage a rear bar off a junk yard car. More bars for you and I, and those, that know the 'geometry' of suspensions!

Now Sid. Try and convince ME that synthetic, or fake, lubricants are good for, ANY vehicle! (Well, except, maybe for the Corvettes)

I'll be just as stubborn, and bull headed, as Neil! I don't care if you got umpteenbazillion miles on one drop of fake oil!
To me, fake oil is only good for one thing. Keeping dust down on a dirt road!

You got beer over there right? Octoberfest! I bet NO respecting West German would be caught dead drinking 'near beer' That is what we call that light beer. Lite beer is the same as that fake oil. Close enough, but ,not quite the real thing.

Now, stick 'that' in yer pipe and smoke it!
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-06 5:31 PM (#147107 - in reply to #147103)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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alumcanTandThd - 2008-10-06 5:16 PM


Now Sid. Try and convince ME that synthetic, or fake, lubricants are good for, ANY vehicle!


LOL canman i don't even try
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60 Plymouth
Posted 2008-10-06 9:11 PM (#147151 - in reply to #147107)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Its a shame that people with realworld knowledge get driven off this site by bookworm fools

its good to see sid and canman(hillbilly from WVA) know how suspension is done!!

Canman I would expect this from you they probally put sway bars on them trailer axles in wva not to metion the double wides
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61plymy
Posted 2008-10-06 11:38 PM (#147163 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar


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Every suspension book I've ever read agree with Canman and Sid. Just because E-booger or someone else puts it in print doesn't gospel it make. E-booger won't even answer emails anymore unless you contribute to his divorce fund (a reason I no longer subscribe, by the way). How honest is he gonna be about a suspension issue?

The priciples of weight coming off a tire affecting the G-forces it can hold in standard gravity are not suspended solely because Neils doesn't believe it applies to his car. Printed words, Neil, can be wrong too, just as a newby on a car line can do something different during his shift. The resultant cars off the line that day are still just as correct as the cars before them and after them.

A car with properly distributed weight on the wheels will hold a turn better than an imbalanced car of the same model. Like Sid said, Detroit would have dropped rear anti-sway bars in a heartbeat if they weren't needed. Hell, they dropped the Hemi gen1 for a savings of only a few bucks back "in the day". A Rear sway bar wouldn't have been missed after ten minutes.

Mike
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-14 6:58 AM (#148051 - in reply to #146502)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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1960fury - 2008-10-01 6:35 AM

60 Plymouth - 2008-09-30 8:00 PM

SID
where did you get your sway bar?
If you have any pics that would be great.


had them custom made. will post pictures soon.



after 10 years on the fl site i finally got me a camera to post pics here and after hours of struggling i even somehow succeeded uploading the pics to my computer ! but looks like i aint have enough brane cells left to downsize em. they are too big and i can't post em. sorry, i keep trying
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wizard
Posted 2008-10-14 2:13 PM (#148098 - in reply to #148051)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Hi Sid! I have used a program called ACDSee for years and I'm really pleased with the simpicity and usability of it. I foud this free download of older versions http://www.download.com/ACDSee-Photo-Manager/3000-12511_4-10000041.... (I still run the version 5.0).

The ACDSee program is very fast and you can downsize, upsize, adjust colours, turn picures (even mirror) - I really recommend it.
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-14 2:28 PM (#148102 - in reply to #148098)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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thanks, will try...
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60 Plymouth
Posted 2008-10-14 2:42 PM (#148106 - in reply to #148102)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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I feel your pain i have been there too. I use adobe photoshop to do mine It is a little bit of a process to get them smaller.
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wizard
Posted 2008-10-14 2:47 PM (#148107 - in reply to #148106)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Try ACDSee you too - really easy - done in a few seconds
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2008-10-14 5:58 PM (#148132 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Just sign up at www.photobucket.com and upload your pics to your account and have them resize the pics fully automatic during the upload. No swaybars needed in the process...! :D


Edited by BigBlockMopar 2008-10-14 6:00 PM
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61plymy
Posted 2008-10-14 7:06 PM (#148181 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar


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Another photo trick that Kenny J taught me was emailing them to myself. XP and I believe 98 have a way of doing it if you use outlook for email. Vista has a dedicated itty-bitty-teeeeensey-weeeeensey little button you click (once you find it) in outlook for choosing the picture sizing option. Works like a champ and no new program to install/learn.

Mike
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2008-10-15 5:05 AM (#148231 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Ok, how about just using www.tinypic.com then?
It doesn't come any easier then this folks.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-15 4:13 PM (#148301 - in reply to #148231)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Mike brings up a valid point, about not necessarily believing anything you read, including this screed, but, from my
own multi-year DRIVING experience, with having HD front strut bushings (only available at Just Suspension), "HD"/optional
heavier-thicker Coronet/Royal Torsion bars, the factory CRL/wagon sway bar, gas-filled shocks front and rear, and with
6-full leaf springs (5-shortest from a donor 62 CHRY wagon), I managed to destroy the front wheel bearings (and trashed one of
the two 11x3" brake-compatible wheel spindles---damaged but didn't destroy the other one---by my having enjoyed CORNERING
my car, and having experienced a joyful neutral-to-oversteer handling response, and at a very-flat cornering angle.

I can kick-out the car's rear end by giving it some gas, even now. with its mighty 2.76:1 rear end gearset.

I do not, however, drive it as energetically as before, around corners, knowing what can happen to the wheel bearings.

So, you want to spend (waste) your money on installing a rear sway bar; be my guest. You HAVE been advised...






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61plymy
Posted 2008-10-15 7:28 PM (#148361 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar


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Uhhhh............Neil...........uhmmmmmmmm...........Yer 'sposed to put grease in them wheel bearings. Then they don't do that.

Mike
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-15 8:12 PM (#148370 - in reply to #148361)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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...Maybe the way that YOU drive (safe and sane) , Mike...LOL...

I enjoy driving my car--or, at least I used to; I used to drive it around corners because it didn't 'plow'; it
turned and cornered (without a rear sway bar) in whatever direction I wanted it to go.

Didn't realize that I was chewing up the wheel bearings!

On another closely-related subject, I also had the carburetor be modified, as per Carter specs, so that about 85% of
the left-hand uphill fuel-bowl wash out has been eliminated.

You haven't lived, til you've thrown your car into a nice left-hand turning maneuver, and have the engine die/starve from
lack of gas getting into the intake manifold.






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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-15 8:25 PM (#148374 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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..I've owned my car since 10/80, so I've had ample opportunity to play with it, and to dial-in its handling.

Besides having the steering gearbox be overhauled, my alignment shop, after the front end was tightened up
and rebuilt, was able to install a killer hands-off/no dead-area, positive-caster alignment for self-centering action.

That situation makes for fun cornering; no guessing about possible under-over steering input, or correction.

No joke: a guy came into town, visiting, a few years ago, with his 57 CRL 2-dr.

It was all that I could do, to keep it running in a straight line, down Main Street, at 35 MPH!!

Oh, yeah: also meant to add that, a few years ago, I experimented with the installation of a 3.55:1
(80's 8 3/4 truck rear end) Sure Grip, as I wanted to see how the car would perform.

A little more low-end performance (3.36:1 open is standard) but a LOT more o.a. operational
noise, and the MPG went from 13-ish to 10-ish...

Sold that rear end to Ray Bell, in AUS, and bought Brent Burger's erstwhile 2.76:1 open rear end.
Still not sure of its highway MPG improvement, over the 3.36:1, but, the car sure is QUIET now
and smooth. I can drive the car in all three gears, but DO have to accelerate rapidly by keeping
it in "1" , up to about 35-40 , before punching "2", which keeps on pulling up to I-dunno-how-far...













Edited by d500neil 2008-10-15 8:33 PM
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60 Plymouth
Posted 2008-10-15 8:25 PM (#148376 - in reply to #148370)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



Elite Veteran

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Cheap bearings and cheap carbs!!
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-15 8:36 PM (#148378 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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..can't argue with that, Aaron, except that our cars were never designed for gymkhanas (sp?)---see, I can't even
SPELL that word-lolol---
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-16 7:45 AM (#148425 - in reply to #148106)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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60 Plymouth - 2008-10-14 2:42 PM

I feel your pain i have been there too. I use adobe photoshop to do mine It is a little bit of a process to get them smaller.


yeah pain is the word, i absolutly HATE computers! i prefer downsizing things with a torch or grinder.... but i think, i made it, pictures follow.
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-16 2:05 PM (#148469 - in reply to #148425)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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finally here are pics of my 60 fury coupes sway bars i modified for roadracing. my car had the 3/4" stock sway bar and i tried the 7/8" 300/wagon bar without success there is no way you can make your car handle perfect even with the strongest OE torsionbars. the stock sway bars suck, they are not only undersized they are also of a bad design since the sway bar frame mounts are mounted way too close to the cars centerline further reducing efficiency.
when i do a modifcation i do it the way the factory should have done it in the first place, i don't like shortcuts so i had a set of sway bars custom made for my car. i fabricated brackets and welded them to the frame and strutrods to mount the bar as far outboard as possible without restricting the cars turning radius, another plus is the use of standard polyurethane sway bar links and bushings (1.1/8"). as you can see the sway bar is well protected by the front crossmember. the brakes btw (front/rear) are 12.19" wilwood vented disk brakes with aluminum rotor hats, calipers, brackets with stock 1960 hubs, wheel bearings, spindles, rear axle. i'm running lightweight wheels (16"x 8" aluminum smoothies), light weight brakes, poly bushings, HD torsion bars, HD leaf springs with upsidedown gas shocks and i lightened the cars front end with aluminum parts and moved the battery to the right rear trunk, giving a perfect weight distribution. this car drives like a cart, its like glued to the road, it sounds funny but the limiting factor is not the suspension system, its the benchseat! although i'm no wimp i can hardly hold myself behind the wheel in a fast lh curve. i never drove a regular car that corners faster. its light weight with low center of gravity, wide track, perfect weight distribution, powerfull 383 with a ram air system is hard to beat, so far i have never lost a race against late model sedans including bmw and mercedes v8s. tight radius curves or 150 mph on the autobahn it handles great. i restored the car 20 years ago and it has been driven almost daily so everything looks a little ratty, sorry.


Edited by 1960fury 2008-10-16 4:17 PM




(frontswaybar1s.jpg)



(frontswaybar2s.jpg)



(frontswaybar3s.jpg)



(frontswaybar4s.jpg)



(frontswaybar5s.jpg)



(frontswaybar6s.jpg)



(1960fury.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments frontswaybar1s.jpg (45KB - 222 downloads)
Attachments frontswaybar2s.jpg (22KB - 204 downloads)
Attachments frontswaybar3s.jpg (29KB - 207 downloads)
Attachments frontswaybar4s.jpg (39KB - 209 downloads)
Attachments frontswaybar5s.jpg (28KB - 218 downloads)
Attachments frontswaybar6s.jpg (23KB - 198 downloads)
Attachments 1960fury.jpg (13KB - 201 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-16 2:52 PM (#148474 - in reply to #148469)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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here pics from the rear, although it looks tight and there are no tailpipes there is plenty enough room left for 2.1/2" pipes. funny thing there are 4 corresponding holes in the body from the factory that lined up perfectly with my sway bar design and i didn't have to drill any holes into the body to mount the sway bar brackets.

Edited by 1960fury 2008-10-16 4:14 PM




(rearswaybar1s.jpg)



(rearswaybar2s.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments rearswaybar1s.jpg (72KB - 203 downloads)
Attachments rearswaybar2s.jpg (75KB - 204 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-16 5:17 PM (#148484 - in reply to #148361)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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61plymy - 2008-10-15 7:28 PM

Uhhhh............Neil...........uhmmmmmmmm...........Yer 'sposed to put grease in them wheel bearings. Then they don't do that.

Mike


correct, 300 000 miles on my front bearings, never caused any problems.
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60 Plymouth
Posted 2008-10-16 5:27 PM (#148487 - in reply to #148484)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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Sid

I want a set

Can you get more made? looks good
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2008-10-16 6:19 PM (#148492 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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I like the 'simplicity' of your front swaybar.

I've been working on mounting an upgraded swaybar aswell on my '60 NY, but it didn't work out as easy as I hoped for so I put it aside for the time being.
I'm using a B-body swaybar (at least I believe it is). I've been trying to use the factory mounting points for the swaybar but I like your solution also.




Edited by BigBlockMopar 2008-10-16 6:20 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-18 6:59 AM (#148666 - in reply to #148487)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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60 Plymouth - 2008-10-16 5:27 PM

Sid

I want a set

Can you get more made? looks good


i put them on many years ago. i must have the drawings with measurements somewhere i could mail to you, if i find them...
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60 Plymouth
Posted 2008-10-18 7:13 PM (#148698 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



Elite Veteran

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That would be great. What did you have them bent out of? I need to get that done as I am assb the car
Would like it to handle better than stock since I have all that motor i plan on going fast
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-12-17 10:20 PM (#554517 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar


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what bar did you use for the rear sway?
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1960fury
Posted 2017-12-26 6:46 PM (#555043 - in reply to #554517)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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mikes2nd - 2017-12-17 10:20 PM

what bar did you use for the rear sway?


old thread! if that was meant for me, i had it fabricated so it fits they way like from the factory, as i meantioned above.

any good spring shop should be able to help, very simple 2 dimensional design. this is all i found, its mote than 25 years ago!!!

metric measurements. gerade=straight. biegung=bend (wheel end large radius, other small radius). 15/16" (about 24mm) diameter bar works good.

this works for any 118wb 60/61 mopars and probably for any other 57-61 fls (imperial maybe excepted).

feel free to copy, but keep in mind you need a healthy frontbar first!

Edited by 1960fury 2017-12-26 7:00 PM




(rearswaybarDS.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments rearswaybarDS.jpg (73KB - 160 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2017-12-26 7:04 PM (#555044 - in reply to #42997)
Subject: Re: Front Sway Bar



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ps i forgot the white triangle apearing thing in the picures above is a reinforcement i had to weld it after a couple of years, as i noticed the bar was causing the trunk floor to flex a bit.

this is the best design. there are sway bars that run along the axle, these only unnecessarily increase unsprung weight and there are sway bars that mount in front of the axle, these, if they break, can drop one end to the floor and can make your car pole vaulting.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-12-26 7:12 PM
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