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Oil level, leakage , elimination and question
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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-23 2:43 AM (#630893)
Subject: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Posts: 97
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Location: North Germany
When I bought my NY I saw that the oil level of the automatic was below minimum - but she drove fine. Then I topped it up to almost maximum - it ran just as well. After a few days I had a huge puddle of oil under the car. This board is so good that after a short time I found the fault - the wire to the gearshift. I removed it ( went amazingly easy ) , put in new sealing ring and covered the wire very far with heat shrink tubing - perfect. A few days later I had a big puddle of oil under the car again. Keep looking. The cable was dry. Now I saw that it was running out of the shaft for the kickdown.
The shaft moved back and forth a lot and the seal was totally broken. I quickly realized that I could not replace the seal with the transmission installed, others have already despaired of the removed transmission.

So I removed the kickdown linkage completely, made everything very very clean and degreased. Then I made a valve stem seal from one of my motorcycles (diameter 6 mm - fits) over it and closed everything with oil-resistant sealant. No solution for eternity, but until I ever remove the gearbox it should hold and it is now actually tight and clean - perhaps a clue for a quick repair. I never use the kickdown anyway, not even with new cars. I drive more like a grandpa.
What surprised me: after I had lost oil, the dipstick was dry, so the oil was far below (with the engine running). After the car stood a few days, the oil level was 10 cm higher - can that be? I have always driven automatic transmissions, but never experienced that the converter empties. Was this also the case with new cars at that time ?
Kind regards
Roger





(oilstick.jpg)



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Attachments oilstick.jpg (63KB - 85 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2023-07-23 4:26 AM (#630896 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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Roger, when the converter is in motion, the level in the converter will be more than half filled. When the car is still standing for a longer time, the fluid will drain back to the transmission, making the level seemingly too high.

Make sure that you have the correct level by driving the car until you have operative temerature (10-20km). Stop the car on a level parking.
Have a helper ready at the dip stick. Now work trough all the gears with the push buttons (2-5 seconds in every gear). Press in neutral and tell the helper to pull up the dipstick, dry it clean and check the level.

If your level is correct with this proceedure, then it's just fine that you have a higher level with cold transmission that hasn't been used for awhile.


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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-23 4:50 AM (#630897 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Location: North Germany
Hello Sven,
I understand the technical background . But I have never heard from other gearboxes that the converter runs empty after a few days. This necessarily means that the gearbox must ALWAYS be 100% tight. No matter at what age and also further up in the gearbox. Well, that is so.
I hope I get with my solution for a while. At some point I will remove the whole gearbox.
The dipstick is also very unfortunate attached. It is very hot next to the exhaust manifold. The hand is quickly burned.
Roger
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Shep
Posted 2023-07-23 8:43 AM (#630898 - in reply to #630897)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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My 55 did the same thing.
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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-23 10:28 AM (#630900 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: RE: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Posts: 97
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Location: North Germany
If I knew it wasn't normal and it could be fixed ( gasket etc ) then it would be a motivation to remove the transmission and fix it.

Oil leaks on the driveway look silly and my Harley does enough of them already. Just a little smaller.
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57chizler
Posted 2023-07-23 3:25 PM (#630906 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: RE: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Zorc - 2023-07-22 11:43 PM
I never use the kickdown anyway, not even with new cars. I drive more like a grandpa.


The term "kickdown linkage" is a misnomer that has put a lot of money in my pocket. The term implies that the linkage is only need for WOT kickdown but, in reality, it is actually "throttle pressure linkage" and it's main purpose is to match the internal line pressure to the throttle opening. Running for any length of time without the linkage connected will destroy the transmission because the internal pressure will remain at its lowest even during heavy throttle and slippage will occur. The seal for the shaft can be replaced in situ, do it and reconnect the linkage.

Converter drainback while sitting is caused by gravity and is perfectly normal...the converter will drain to a little under half full. Once the engine starts, the transmission pump will refill the converter quickly so the drainback is only noticed when the fluid level rises and finds a leak source. This is why the fluid level must only be checked with the engine running, drainback starts as soon as the engine is shut off...again, gravity at work.
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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-24 1:10 AM (#630913 - in reply to #630906)
Subject: RE: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Posts: 97
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Location: North Germany
57chizler - 2023-07-22 9:25 PM


The term "kickdown linkage" is a misnomer that has put a lot of money in my pocket. The term implies that the linkage is only need for WOT kickdown but, in reality, it is actually "throttle pressure linkage" and it's main purpose is to match the internal line pressure to the throttle opening. Running for any length of time without the linkage connected will destroy the transmission because the internal pressure will remain at its lowest even during heavy throttle and slippage will occur. The seal for the shaft can be replaced in situ, do it and reconnect the linkage.


that is interesting and of course not good in my case. Then I will probably have to deal with the removal of the gearbox sooner. There are reports here in the forum that the seal is extremely difficult to remove. And it is really very little space. Anyway - I will deal with it. If I have understood you correctly then it would be at least better in the near future not to give strong throttle . So the accelerator pedal always only kick a little.
Thanks
Roger
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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-24 1:29 PM (#630919 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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fine, now I'm ready to replace the oil seal - but I can't understand what size the seal needs to be.
I read the detailed report from Dave and thought I understood. i thought.
Is it correct ? there are 2 different sizes of oil seals - one sheet metal , one plastic. My 3 speed Torqueflite ( 1961 , cast steel ) has the smaller plastic seal ?
I can find there number 1732-183 and as Dave wrote about this no offer.
Is it correct that the size would be : 5/16 x 31/64 ? ( Metric 7,94 x 12,3 mm ) ?
I could find something almost suitable here.
When it goes to special then it is more difficult
Thank you
Roger
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57chizler
Posted 2023-07-24 1:48 PM (#630921 - in reply to #630919)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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The TP shaft seal is molded all rubber, the original 1732183 number has been superceded to 2466583.



(TP Seal.jpg)



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Attachments TP Seal.jpg (7KB - 83 downloads)
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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-25 6:07 AM (#630938 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Posts: 97
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Location: North Germany
Thank you,
but also the part no. 2466583 give me no results in the www






Edited by Zorc 2023-07-25 9:33 AM
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wizard
Posted 2023-07-25 9:50 AM (#630942 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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Mr Mechanic in Sweden has them most probably. Mrmechanic.se 3853L.
The site informs 0 in store, but you need to ask Bjorn if he has them. Look at the TorqueFlite page, you could buy the drive sleeve O-ring and front pump sleeve and perhaps you need more parts….
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57chizler
Posted 2023-07-25 2:51 PM (#630949 - in reply to #630938)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



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Zorc - 2023-07-25 3:07 AM

Thank you,
but also the part no. 2466583 give me no results in the www






OOPS, my bad, the number is 2466548
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Zorc
Posted 2023-07-26 3:59 AM (#630967 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



Regular

Posts: 97
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Location: North Germany
Thanks John, I found a seal with this number - in the USA
That means 10$ plus 30$ freight

I will find something - somewhere.
roger
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Zorc
Posted 2023-08-13 1:50 PM (#631325 - in reply to #630893)
Subject: Re: Oil level, leakage , elimination and question



Regular

Posts: 97
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Location: North Germany
In fact, I found a company for automatic transmissions in Germany that could also offer me the matching sealing ring. For interested parties in Europe : https://www.automatic-berger.de/

Of course it was easy to change it. Because I still had a matching oil seal here, I also glued it in. Seals and is absolutely dry.

Sorry that I understood it so hard and it took so long. It is really difficult to understand that there are so many different seals in such a short time and so many different gearbox designs.
Thanks
Roger





(shaftseal.jpg)



(shaftseal2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments shaftseal.jpg (53KB - 83 downloads)
Attachments shaftseal2.jpg (60KB - 84 downloads)
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