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 Hoping for a photo of a 1957 325 (poly or hemi) with a PS pumpJump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223    Location: Lower Mainland BC | . I am in the middle of a project to replace my close-coupled 56 Dodge generator and PS pump combo with a separate alternator and PS pump. I am following Gary S. (Wayfarer)'s ideas that he used on a 354 Chrysler (see photo below). I have the alternator install 95% figured and the PS pump about 75%. I am using a Saginaw PS pump from a 1991 Dodge 318 Ramcharger truck and a bracket adapter that I bought from Gary. The install is going reasonably well (still need to sort the high pressure hose stuff out) and things like the right size "fan" belt. Today while I was determining the size of the PS drive belt I realized that there is an issue that I had *NOT* anticipated: At this point, unless I change something, the belt is going to rub on the rad hose from the water pump housing outlet to the lower radiator inlet. I am curious how they dealt with this in 1957 when the PS pump became a separate item. This may require a re-think on the Saginaw pump and switching to a 57 325 Dodge PS pump (and bracketery, etc). So I am hoping someone can point me to a photo of a full frontal on a 57 Dodge 325 poly or hemi engine with a PS pump. I do have the image below from the 57 Dodge FSM but it doesn't show the water manifold outlet and the direction of the lower rad hose. This Gary S' "template" that I a trying to follow: Edited by 56D500boy 2023-10-01 2:01 AM (57DodgePSPumpArrangementFromTheFSM.jpg) Attachments ----------------  57DodgePSPumpArrangementFromTheFSM.jpg (148KB - 539 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Since I made my first post in this thread last night, I did find this image of a 57 Dodge D500 with PS. However, it doesn't show me what I was hoping for, i.e. a full frontal of the engine with the PS pump. Nevertheless, the belt arrangement is interesting. Probably not relevant, but it is interesting. | ||
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| mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6713  Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Here is a pic: https://www.mecum.com/lots/466771/1957-dodge-coronet-d-500/ https://res.cloudinary.com/mecum/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,g_center... Edited by mstrug 2023-10-01 11:39 AM (1957dodgepsresized1.png) Attachments ---------------- 1957dodgepsresized1.png (248KB - 497 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Thanks for that Marc. Much better than I had. HOWEVER... I still don't know how much clearance there is/was between the lower leg of the PS drive belt and the lower rad hose. Anybody? (Probably needs to be a photo with the rad out). BTW: That can't be a 57 D500 if it has a poly. Obvious case of BBS (Badge Bull Sh*t)  Edited by 56D500boy 2023-10-01 1:26 PM (57DodgePolyWIthPS_small.jpg) (57DodgePolyWIthPS_Detail.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57DodgePolyWIthPS_small.jpg (149KB - 534 downloads) 57DodgePolyWIthPS_Detail.jpg (145KB - 582 downloads) | ||
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| mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6713 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Another Dodge picture from the prototype days. (dodge-325-1957.jpg) Attachments ---------------- dodge-325-1957.jpg (51KB - 533 downloads) | ||
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| mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6713 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | From FL.net... http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=43500 (1957spitfirepowersteeringand hose1.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 1957spitfirepowersteeringand hose1.JPG (125KB - 455 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Excellent finds Marc. Thanks for doing the sleuthing. The last photo seals my fate: I am screwed on Plan A (running the PS pump off the crank pulley (and over the water pump pulley). The 57 coolant manifold is so much different than my 56 manifold for starters. I now have to come up with Plan B (involve an idler to lift the belt over the lower rad hose - which sounds difficult (for me)) or Plan C - just run the PS pump off the water pump pulley (with the dual groove water pump pulley driven by the new alternator belt via the crank). The first photo is a detail from that 57 Poly photo and the second is where I am at at the moment. I will be consulting with my hydraulics expert (Del S (Dels56)) - hopefully tomorrow in person. Edited by 56D500boy 2023-10-01 4:12 PM (57DodgePolyWIthPS_2.jpg) (318LARamchargerSaginawPSPumpWithOEBracketsHoseAnd GarySsBracket_After_2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57DodgePolyWIthPS_2.jpg (146KB - 555 downloads) 318LARamchargerSaginawPSPumpWithOEBracketsHoseAnd GarySsBracket_After_2.jpg (149KB - 515 downloads) | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10579  Location: So. Cal | These are from my '58 Coronet, taken in selfie mode. Not the greatest. (58 Coronet Power Steering Pump Top.jpg) (58 Coronet Power Steering Pump.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 58 Coronet Power Steering Pump Top.jpg (97KB - 521 downloads) 58 Coronet Power Steering Pump.jpg (110KB - 491 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Thanks Nathan. Those are likely to be the best I could have hoped for, Selfie Mode or not.  How much room do you think there is between the belt and the lower rad hose? (Plan D might involve a different rad hose than what I am running at the moment, i.e. one that goes down more before heading towards the rad). Edited by 56D500boy 2023-10-01 10:05 PM | ||
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| 22mafeja |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 750 Location: Finland | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2023-10-01 6:43 PM (Plan D might involve a different rad hose than what I am running at the moment, i.e. one that goes down more before heading towards the rad). Ralf: This is what I currently have to work with for your idea: :0 | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . This must be Plan D or E: Redrill GaryS's 354 bracket so I can raise the Saginaw pump up higher. I redrilled the bracket mounting hole about 1" lower so the bracket is 1" higher. This got the adjustment bolt above the coolant manifold arm, rather than below it. Most importantly, it gave the belt (so far a 49" AC Delco 15490) about 3/4" clearance *ABOVE* the lower rad hose. I still need to work on spacers and a better way to deal with the adjustment bolt. DOWNSIDE: I definitely have a conflict between the rear most Saginaw pump bracket and the oil dipstick and tube. (I always knew that it was going to be a problem- now to figure out a solution). Today, after redrilling the bracket and raising things by about 1": (And yes, I did modify the battery tray to make sure there was going to be any clearance issues there - not pretty but it should work just fine). Edited by 56D500boy 2023-10-02 9:18 PM (315HemiWIthSaginawPSPump_GarySsBracket_Redrilled_AlignmentTrial_1.jpg) (315HemiWIthSaginawPSPump_GarySsBracket_Redrilled_AlignmentTrial_2.jpg) (315HemiWIthSaginawPSPump_GarySsBracket_Redrilled_BeltClearance.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 315HemiWIthSaginawPSPump_GarySsBracket_Redrilled_AlignmentTrial_1.jpg (149KB - 504 downloads) 315HemiWIthSaginawPSPump_GarySsBracket_Redrilled_AlignmentTrial_2.jpg (148KB - 538 downloads) 315HemiWIthSaginawPSPump_GarySsBracket_Redrilled_BeltClearance.jpg (147KB - 530 downloads) | ||
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| 22mafeja |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 750 Location: Finland | |||
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| Fin_ish Floyd |
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Member Posts: 46 Location: Santa Fe Texas | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Floyd: I have a 315 hemi. Last time we went around on this, you thought you had developed a kit for a 56 315 poly and one of the forum members tried it. Turns out that the poly engine that you used to develop that kit was probably a 270 poly and it was different enough that it did not work on the 315 poly. 325 polys (and hemis) are significantly different than the 315s (poly or hemi - they use the same coolant manifold). If you had a 315 poly kit that was proven to work, I might be interested. Edited by 56D500boy 2023-10-08 2:30 AM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . I forget about this thread but remembered that I actually saw a 57 Dodge 325 poly with PS last Sunday (July 13) at Mopar Madness. Too bad that the 325's water pump manifold and who knows what else is so much different than the 56 315 hemi and poly water pump manifolds, otherwise I would try to find/clone the 325 PS brackets. This: (MoparMadness2025_57DodgeRoyalLancer_325PolyPowerSteeringPump.jpg) Attachments ---------------- MoparMadness2025_57DodgeRoyalLancer_325PolyPowerSteeringPump.jpg (149KB - 323 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11223 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Finally having seen a "live" 57 325 PS pump mount, I realized that the mount used two bolts on the water pump manifold. My previous attempts at mounting a Saginaw PS pump low on my 56 315 only utilized one 315 water pump manifold branch mounting bolt. So I contacted Gary S (Wayfarer) who had made me a Saginaw mounting bracket to use with two of the several 318 LA PS pump mounting brackets. Gary replied that the bracket was designed to have two attachment points. I was previously confused as to how he thought one attachment point was going to work but now I know: He wanted/required/needed two attachment points. They are there, I just need to access the second one. Related to the photo attached, my issue at the moment is I need to get the bolt through Spacer No. 1 into the second "hidden" water pump manifold branch bolt location. Based on Gary's original bracket holes, No. 3 needs be lifted up (after loosening the bolt through No. 2) and, thereby, rotating the assembly anti-clockwise to drop No. 1 down to line up with the second water manifold branch bolt. I will probably need a second spacer at No. 1 to keep your bracket parallel to the water manifold branch bosses. On a related note, the length of the spacer at No. 2 and the location of the bracket on the No. 3 spacer dictates the position of the PS pulley relative to the forward groove (in my case) of the crank pulley (I am going to use the rearward crank pulley groove to drive the new alternator - which I have mostly sorted, bracket-wise). The bolt through No. 3 might have to be "adjusted" (think angle grinder) to that it does not interfere with oil dip stick and tube (which was not an issue for the 354 install (I think)). In the background to this, there is another issue that I will have to deal with: interference (rubbing) with the PS pump drive belt and the lower water manifold to radiator hose. At one point I "solved" that by redrilling Gary's bracket with a hole for the No. 2 bolt that was 1" lower in the bracket, which raised the assembly (with the pump 1") which gave me the hose clearance that I needed. However, that is now a completely non-viable solution now that I know where the No. 1 bolt has to go. I am not sure what the work-around for that issue will be (at this point). BUT there will be one. I envision that I will have to remove the rad to get a better view of things when I finally get back at it in October. Edited by 56D500boy 2025-08-24 10:45 AM (GarysTriangularBracketAndSpacersExplained_Annotated.jpg) Attachments ---------------- GarysTriangularBracketAndSpacersExplained_Annotated.jpg (149KB - 334 downloads) | ||
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