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Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-04 4:41 PM (#634549)
Subject: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

Is it even possible? (haha) Between the block, exhaust pipe, frame, and torsion bar, the ultra-heavy starter motor is wedged in like a g-string in Kim Kardashian's butt crack. The repair manual is of no help whatsoever.  Do you have to disconnect the exhaust pipe from the manifold?  Those bolts weren't budging - even with a breaker bar.  Anybody done this?

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mstrug
Posted 2024-04-04 5:27 PM (#634550 - in reply to #634549)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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https://www.web.imperialclub.info/Repair/Electrical/starter.htm Spray ex. nuts. with PB Blaster or Mouse milk or acetone mixed with trans, fluid. wait. Add heat. try....
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-04 6:07 PM (#634554 - in reply to #634550)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

Not a great design.  There was a thread once about what design changes people would make to the FL cars.  I think the master cylinder beneath the brake booster was the most vexing.  I'd have to put this in as well!





(04 reduced.jpg)



(02 reduced.jpg)



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Attachments 04 reduced.jpg (208KB - 77 downloads)
Attachments 02 reduced.jpg (224KB - 61 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2024-04-04 7:55 PM (#634556 - in reply to #634554)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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I have medium length headers and I can remove it w/o ex pipe removal but have to disconnect the cooling lines. Don't you have a transmission cooler? The pipes should be there, under the starter.
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1960fury
Posted 2024-04-04 8:00 PM (#634557 - in reply to #634554)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Lancer Mike - 2024-04-04 6:07 PM

Not a great design. 



lol, takes a few minutes with a torch to remove the ex pipe, another few for the starter. Have you ever worked on a new car? Chances are, you have to pull the engine with gazillions of wires, pipes and whatever. Not rarely a 4-digit bill at the dealer, just labor. Gotta love the old cars

Edited by 1960fury 2024-04-04 8:01 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-04-04 10:56 PM (#634559 - in reply to #634549)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Mike, in my thread on my '58 Fireflite, I describe the same issue. This is what I wrote:

"I finished swapping the starter out of the car. It took me a while because once I disconnected it, I couldn't figure out how to get it past the torsion bar or exhaust. Both options were quite
painful for a typical R&R of a starter, in a field of dirt. Instead, I removed the master cylinder & throttle linkage. Then I was able to pull it out from the top."

So that's what I did, and was definitely the quickest method, but also still painful.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-05 3:37 PM (#634567 - in reply to #634559)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

Thanks Sid and Nathan.  I'll figure out a way.  The worst of it is, I think the starter works fine.  I want to replace the solenoid!  I should have looked at your thread, Nathan!  I did a search in titles and couldn't get a hit.

I'll put in a link to your thread, just in case anyone else is having the same problem.  Bottom of page 1

 

Do you think removal of the access panel under the brake pedal would allow me to get it out through the passenger compartment?



Edited by Lancer Mike 2024-04-05 3:47 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-04-05 5:13 PM (#634569 - in reply to #634549)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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That might be a good way, but I'm not sure. I didn't think of that at the time. The screws for that panel would have required a torch to remove, so that's likely why I didn't consider it.

Edited by Powerflite 2024-04-05 5:15 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-05 10:13 PM (#634573 - in reply to #634569)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

Hallelujah!  I took Marc's advice and soaked the exhaust pipe bolts with PB Blaster and hit em with a big ol' breaker bar and got both bolts off.  I was able to move the exhaust pipe just enought that I could BARELY squeeze the starter motor out.  Removing the MC and linkage looked really difficult, but that was plan B.

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-10 11:00 PM (#634653 - in reply to #634573)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

I bought a new solenoid and plunger kit from Vintage Auto Garage.  It didn't come with any instructions.



Edited by Lancer Mike 2024-04-10 11:09 PM




(new solenoid and plunger kit reduced.jpg)



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Attachments new solenoid and plunger kit reduced.jpg (206KB - 73 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-10 11:04 PM (#634654 - in reply to #634653)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

A few questions:

  1. It did not come with an internal spring - should I install the spring from the old solenoid?
  2. Should I use any grease for the plunger?
  3. I don't know what the disks are for, but I think assembly is something like this diagram I created.  Reasonable?




(plunger assembly.jpg)



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Attachments plunger assembly.jpg (33KB - 67 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2024-04-11 2:28 AM (#634656 - in reply to #634549)
Subject: RE: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto


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yes-no-yes , IMO

Edited by 22mafeja 2024-04-11 2:31 AM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-11 8:45 PM (#634663 - in reply to #634656)
Subject: RE: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

Thanks, Ralf.  I will assemble and bench test.  I didn't know if there was some sort of electrostatic grease, but I'll go bareback and see what happens.

A bit better assembly diagram:



Edited by Lancer Mike 2024-04-11 9:04 PM




(plunger assembly revised.jpg)



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Attachments plunger assembly revised.jpg (33KB - 59 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-04-17 6:17 PM (#634736 - in reply to #634549)
Subject: Re: Removing the starter motor - 1958 De Soto



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Location: The Centennial State

Thanks everyone for your help. 'Twas still a huge pain to get the motor back in and tighten the mounting bolt and nut, but it's done and the De Soto is running and driving again. One curious thing: the negative battery kill switch seems to have failed during the process. I'm not sure if it is related to the coil problem or just coincidence. I did not know those things could malfunction or break! At any rate, I hope that's the last time I will ever have to remove the starter motor. One more spring to add to the diagram.



Edited by Lancer Mike 2024-04-17 6:24 PM




(plunger assembly revised.jpg)



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Attachments plunger assembly revised.jpg (38KB - 64 downloads)
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