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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1090
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Hi all.
Before Christmas I removed my 3 speed Torqueflite and gave it to a rebuilder to address some niggly issues.
It was shifting absolutely perfectly, wasn't slipping, kickdown performed flawlessly in every gear etc.
The 3 pre-rebuild faults were:
1/. It had a whining noise in neutral, and the whine would change slightly when drive or reverse was selected. The whine didn't seem relevant to rpms.
2/. It had started spewing large quantities of transmission fluid onto the floor.
3/. On a few occasions when started from cold, selection of any gear wouldn't produce any movement, like it was in neutral, until after about 30 seconds of button pushing then it would be fine.
I reinstalled the rebuilt transmission last week, and now it has multiple faults. (As well as #3 fault above still.)
Post-rebuild faults:
1/. The neutral safety switch somehow became inoperative within 5 weeks. So I have replaced that with a spare. But what could cause this switch to suddenly fail DURING a rebuild?
2/. The shift cable seems to need to be all the way in to the shift cable housing now, there is no tolerance for it to be out a bit anymore like before.
3/. When taking off in Drive, it takes off in 2nd instead of 1st gear. If coming to a stop while in Drive, there is no automatic downshift to 1st any more.
4/. Cannot even select a downshift to 1st gear by pressing button 1. When button 1 is selected, the trans won't go into 1st gear unless the car is doing less than 3 mph.
5/. There is no kickdown to 1st gear. When in 2nd gear and the pedal is floored, the engine just labors but it doesn't downshift to 1st.
6/. There is a weird slip/flare as it upshifts automatically from 1st gear.
I have set the kickdown adjustment by having the pedal depressed to the floor, then adjusting the lever on the trans almost fully rearward before tightening the slip joint.
I have tested and reset line pressures to between 90-95psi.
Fluid level is correct, checked idling in neutral when hot.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Glenn.
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Expert
Posts: 4196
 
Location: Connecticut | Glenn - Try messaging Jim Rawa, since he can rebuild these in his sleep. He'll probably point you in the right direction. Ron |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13163
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Glenn, see comments below
The 3 pre-rebuild faults were:
1/. It had a whining noise in neutral, and the whine would change slightly when drive or reverse was selected. The whine didn't seem relevant to rpms.
2/. It had started spewing large quantities of transmission fluid onto the floor.
Cavitation (cold boiling, caused by either sucking air or whipping the fluid)
3/. On a few occasions when started from cold, selection of any gear wouldn't produce any movement, like it was in neutral, until after about 30 seconds of button pushing then it would be fine.
Internal leakage
I reinstalled the rebuilt transmission last week, and now it has multiple faults. (As well as #3 fault above still.)
Post-rebuild faults:
1/. The neutral safety switch somehow became inoperative within 5 weeks. So I have replaced that with a spare. But what could cause this switch to suddenly fail DURING a rebuild?
The lever is out of alignment or the switch must be turned off slightly (see FSM)
2/. The shift cable seems to need to be all the way in to the shift cable housing now, there is no tolerance for it to be out a bit anymore like before.
The cable is not adjusted correctly or wrongly inserted
3/. When taking off in Drive, it takes off in 2nd instead of 1st gear. If coming to a stop while in Drive, there is no automatic downshift to 1st any more.
The cable is out o adjustment, best to pull the fluid pan and check, perhaps the adjustment allows two gears engaged at the same time
4/. Cannot even select a downshift to 1st gear by pressing button 1. When button 1 is selected, the trans won't go into 1st gear unless the car is doing less than 3 mph.
Governor issue, most probably sticking
5/. There is no kickdown to 1st gear. When in 2nd gear and the pedal is floored, the engine just labors but it doesn't downshift to 1st.
See 5/.
6/. There is a weird slip/flare as it upshifts automatically from 1st gear.
Valve body issue.
So, pull the pan first. Remove the cable and the valve body. Do a leak test with a pice of steel securing the acumulator piston (see FSM)
If you don't hear dull THUD's from the front and rear clutches but instead a wheesing sound - pull the trans again.
If you hear the dull thuds, then the trans should be ok. But then check the valve body (see FSM).
Reinstall the valve body and the cable. Check that the different gears sets the spring loaded ball properly in all the cuts in the crescent. Adjust correctly.
Remount the pan, fill up to correct level and make a road test.
If the downshift and/or upshift dont fall within the specs (throttle valve linkage correctly adjusted), then remove the rear strut and check that the governor weights moves freely.
Good luck
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1090
Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Thanks for your thoughts.
The neutral safety switch was visibly/physically damaged. These "switches" are less of a switch and more of a contact. The spring loaded contact at the end had, in the space of 5 weeks while the trans was at the rebuilder, become below flush with the surface/inoperable so it wasn't able to complete the circuit/grounding. I wonder how this could have happened? Did it get dropped off the bench?
The shift cable is adjusted as per the book. And I can't see how it could be inserted incorrectly. When you say drop the pan to check, the shift mech and detents are above the valve body on a 57/58 trans aren't they? How do you tell when the gear is correctly selected/shift cable adjusted correctly with pan dropped? Aren't the crescent/detents/ball all facing up, and therefore not visible from below? (Sample Photo attached)
By all accounts, everything is certainly pointing to a governor issue so far..
Glenn.
 (Trans valve body nos edit2.jpg)
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 Trans valve body nos edit2.jpg (210KB - 234 downloads)
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Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 10836
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Here is info posted by 57Chizler:
Here is the shifter photo that I have used as a guide as to how the early TorqueFlite shifter "comb" worked.
The photo of the shifter comb was posted by Phil C. in France. It might help you imagine what the issue is.
I have compiled a bunch of info about the neutral safety switch in this post/thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69708&...
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1090
Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | The manual states to select R and holding in, when inserting the shift cable, not 1 as this suggests?
That comb and detents are on top of the valve body when installed in the car, so not at all visible from underneath with the pan removed…?
Glenn |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13163
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Glenn, it's messy and ankward, but here's what you'll see (pic below)
The neutral starter switch is just a springloaded pointed piece of round iron that gives ground. The geometry of the "comb" isn't the very best and it needs to be checked up with the pan removed. If the wrong type of O-ring or te lack of the cupped washer, the switch goes to far in and the switch will be damaged (crushed spring)
 (IMG_6558_rez.jpg)
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IMG_6558_rez.jpg (207KB - 237 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1090
Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Thanks for the reply Sven.
Yes the neutral safety switch is basically a spring loaded contact, looking for a ground. Even if I push the contact well below the surface it won't damage it. I can't understand how it had become inoperative during the 5 weeks that my trans was out of the car. It cost a lot of wasted time once the trans was reinstalled, since we first had to determine the switch was now inoperative, and then bypass it in order to resume trans tests on the day.
On Thursday this week I am taking my car to a hoist, and pulling the pan to determine shift cable adjustment visually. During this recent mission I had also elected to replace my shift cable with a new one, so I have a new cable and new trans rebuild, either of which could be causing the shift cable to now go into the housing a lot further than before.
I'm wondering if it's possible that the rebuilder installed the shift cable linkage 180 degrees out? It would still fit & work, but the end result would be the shift cable would need to go into the housing further.
Also on Thursday we will be removing the driveshaft, handbrake and tailshaft, to examine the governor, trying to find out what is causing these downshift issues.
 (Trans shift cable.jpg)
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Trans shift cable.jpg (173KB - 245 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1090
Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Well yesterday we removed the driveshaft, handbrake drum and tail shaft housing to inspect the governor, which is what everything was pointing to.
Sure enough, the governor weight had been installed into the governor housing back to front.
Reversed it to be in the housing with the weight circlip facing out, as per the manual.
Reassembled and test drove. All shifting as it should now.
So glad I didn't need to remove the transmission again!
Glenn. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13163
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great Glenn! Happy that you solved the issues. |
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Torqueflite problems after rebuild
