|
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | My 1958 Custom Royal has been running like a dream since i got it on the road 6 months ago . I was deccelerating down a hill the other day and it backfired twice then ran rough and wouldn't start . It was trying to start but wouldn't . I had to get a tilt tray truck to bring it home . I checked the plugs and they were fouled fairly bad so i replaced them with NGK BP5S Plugs . I had put a kit through the carby a few months ago but i took it off to check the float level and to see if the float was sinking , all good . I have checked for spark and it is good . I replaced the negative wire to the coil as it was suspect . Points are fine . Distributor cap and terminals are in good condition . Even after all this it is still trying to start but won't . Engine is a 350 and carby is a two barrel carter . Your help would be appreciated . Cheers , Bucket . |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1216
 
Location: Ponder, TX | My guess is the timing chain jumped. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522
Location: Invermere B.C. Canada - Rocky Mountains | GaryS - 2026-01-13 4:44 AM My guess is the timing chain jumped. What he said ! |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 10542
Location: So. Cal | The timing chain is the biggest suspect because of how quickly it occurred, but the more common problem that causes this is bad valve seats. The original springs are weak. That combined with new fuels makes it easy to burn the valve seat area. But this typically happens after many months of driving, and gradually over time, causing loss of power and backfiring.
Another possible cause is a wiped cam lobe or two. If your oil pressure isn't great, the lifters are typically the first to suffer from it. I suggest starting with a compression or leak-down test to figure it out.
Edited by Powerflite 2026-01-13 11:14 AM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Thanks fellas .
Another possible cause is a wiped cam lobe or two. If your oil pressure isn't great, the lifters are typically the first to suffer from it.
The oil pressure always sat about a needle past the second mark on the factory gauge , so pretty good pressure . |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Well I found something interesting.
I checked for Timing Chain slack and there seems to be a fair amount .
It seems that one of the previous owners has changed the spark plug wire orientation around .
They have started the firing order from post/position 2 on the wiring diagram and followed the correct firing order from there .
I have marked where the firing order number starts from in my photo , number 1 cylinder should start right next to the dizzy clip .
I found what i think is number 1 TDC and the rotor points just past the number one in my photo .
 (440firingorder.jpg)
 (20260114_092452[1].jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 440firingorder.jpg (122KB - 140 downloads)
20260114_092452[1].jpg (122KB - 127 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 488
| Before you start tearing anything apart, just for the fun of it, make sure your #5 & #7 plug wires are on the correct spark plug. If these two are crossed the engine will still run, 5 will fire late and 7 will fire early. Also causes a bit of a hard start. Just a thought and a quick and easy fix if that is what you find. If not, pull out the wrenches.
Del |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | dels56 - 2026-01-13 8:28 PM
Before you start tearing anything apart, just for the fun of it, make sure your #5 & #7 plug wires are on the correct spark plug. If these two are crossed the engine will still run, 5 will fire late and 7 will fire early. Also causes a bit of a hard start. Just a thought and a quick and easy fix if that is what you find. If not, pull out the wrenches.
Del
Thanks Del , I will try that .
Seems weird that the car was running fine before the backfire .
Would it still run fine if 5 and 7 were on the wrong plugs ?
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4240
Location: Connecticut | Have you replaced the condensor ? Ron |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 11182
Location: Lower Mainland BC | ronbo97 - 2026-01-14 7:58 AM
Have you replaced the condensor ?
Good one Ron. I had that issue way back (when I was 16). Plodge would not start no matter what we (my Dad and I) tried.
Eventually we popped the distributor cap and noticed that the condensor wire was loose under the screw. Tightened it back down and the engine fired right up. (Go figure  )
On the downside/upside, the accumulated gasoline in the exhaust system (from days of non-starting) blew a hole in the muffler.
Upside was a got my first "Thrush" glass pack muffler. 
Example condensor wire:
Edited by 56D500boy 2026-01-14 8:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | ronbo97 - 2026-01-14 10:58 AM
Have you replaced the condensor ? Ron
No I haven't but the previous owner did just before I bought it .
It looks brand new but I will replace it and see what happens before I get the spanners out .
I just checked the timing chain slack again and there is more than I first thought .
When I rotate the engine anti clockwise (from the front ) there is a clink/clunk noise coming from the timing chain area .
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | In case I need a new timing chain set , is the 350 a three or single bolt camshaft ?
Wil sets that are listed for 361 and up fit ?
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Just found this from 58Coupe
You can interchange all big block and raised big block cams: 350,361 383, 400,413,440, 426 wedge. The 440 magnum used a 3 bolt cam sprocket and the others only 1 bolt, just use the correct sprocket. |
|
| |
|
Location: The Centennial State | I wonder if it might be a bad coil. It seems like mine had a similar problem a hundred years ago and I thought replacing the coil may have solved it. Wait a minute - it seems like mine failed under load when going uphill, so maybe it was different.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2026-01-14 10:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | If I have to replace the Timing Chain Set I may as well replace the Harmonic Balancer .
Is the 350 an internally balanced Engine ?
I see different Balancers advertised , some internally balanced and some externally balanced . |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4240
Location: Connecticut | How many miles on your car ? If you have less than 100K, I wouldn't worry about the chain. Also, if it was running great, then all of a sudden wasn't, I don't think the chain all of a sudden jumped. You would have noticed evidence of a stretched chain long before it jumped. Such as the car holding back when going over 30-40mph. That's what tipped me off. But my Desoto has over 130K on the clock.
Balancer: I believe that your engine does have a harmonic balancer, also known as a damper. Don't throw some aftermarket balancer on your car. Have the original balancer rebuilt. Timing chain slack: How are you checking that ? Again, my money is on either the condenser or the coil. Most likely the condenser. Ron
Edited by ronbo97 2026-01-15 7:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | ronbo97 - 2026-01-15 7:01 PM
Timing chain slack: How are you checking that ?
I am moving the crank clockwise and anti clockwise to see how much movement before the rotor moves .
There is probably at least 15 degrees either way before the rotor moves .
There is also a audible clink/clunk noise from the timing chain area when moving the crank clockwise (from front of car)
There is also the fact that somebody has started the firing order from number 2 post as per my photo above .
I have read that this may be to disguise timing chain slack , I have no idea if this is true .
I have no idea how many miles are on this engine ,Speedo reads 30,000 miles but I doubt if this is true .
Edited by BUCKET 2026-01-15 7:54 PM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . |
Thanks Dave , that is a good price . |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | I did a coil test .
Primary is 1.2 Ohms , Secondary is 6.5 Ohms .
What concerns me is the Timing Chain slack .
I did another test , it is making a clicking/grinding noise before a clunk at the end when I stop moving the crank . |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 11182
Location: Lower Mainland BC | BUCKET - 2026-01-15 6:44 PM.
What concerns me is the Timing Chain slack .
I did another test , it is making a clicking/grinding noise before a clunk at the end when I stop moving the crank .
The more you test the timing chain, the more that I am convinced that there are serious issues with it (maybe
even broken???).
Unfortunately the only way that that can be confirmed is to go in there and check which basically means
installing a new timing chain, etc. Hence my link to Mopar Mall.
From the 57-58 Plymouth factory service manual pdf (available for free at MyMopar.com):
"CHECKING TIMING CHAIN
V-8 ENGINE-To check the timing chain for stretch or
wear, place a scale across the top of camshaft gear with
the edge close to the chain. Apply a 30 foot-pound
torque in the direction of the crankshaft rotation to take
up slack. Holding the scale with the dimensional reading
even with the edge of a chain link, apply the 30
foot-pound torque in the reverse direction and note the
amount of chain rotation. See Figure 53.
If the movement of the chain is greater than 3/16 of an
inch, as indicated by the scale, install a new timing
chain. With a 30 foot-pound torque applied to the camshaft
gear nut, the crankshaft should not move during
this check. However, if there is any question, the
crankshaft should be blocked to prevent rotation."
From what you are telling us, you have way more than 3/16"
play/slack.
Good luck
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Thanks Dave .
I have concluded the Timing Chain shouldn't be making noises like it is .
I have a few Mopar friends close by who are knowledgeable and they have said it shouldn't be making those noises .
I don't think it is broken as I can still turn it over and get spark .
But I do think it is F#*ked .
I really hope it hasn't broken the Nylon teeth off .
I have a FSM so I will see if it mentions how to change it with the Engine still in the car .
Edited by BUCKET 2026-01-16 3:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 11182
Location: Lower Mainland BC | BUCKET - 2026-01-16 12:05 PM.
I have a FSM so I will see if it mentions how to change it with the Engine still in the car .
I don't have a 58 Dodge with a 350 B block engine but I am pretty sure that once you remove the
radiator you will have access to the water pump, water pump manifold, fuel pump and front crank pulley(s), all
of which would have to come off to access the timing cover and expose the timing chain.
This would be something like your starting point (after the rad is out)
This U-tube video might help you figure things out:
https://youtu.be/dpRyMpAEypU
Edited by 56D500boy 2026-01-17 2:44 AM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Thanks Dave .
I had already taken the Radiator out and removed everything I have to to get the Balancer off before I saw your post .
I will get another puller as the ones I have are S#*t .
O ne of the Auto stores in town will have one .
I will post up photos when I get the cover off. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | GaryS - 2026-01-13 6:44 AM
My guess is the timing chain jumped.
Bingo , but I am thinking it may of happened a couple of times .
I have set the engine at TDC number 1 piston with both valves closed by rotating the crank .
I took the timing cover off and despite the slack in the chain both marks line up at 12 and 12 .
But then I rotated the camshaft (clockwise from front) to take up the slack in the chain .
The Camshaft mark moved maybe 10mm to the right , if you know what I mean.
I don't know how many degrees that equates to .
If you notice the White marks on the balancer , one is on Zero and the other is about 8 degrees after TDC .
A previous owner had started the firing order at number 2 post on the dizzy .
Would this be to counteract a previous jump ?
I am thinking it has jumped before and now has jumped again back to where the marks line up at 12 and 12 .
Anyway , the timing chain is F#*ked (Am I allowed to say that on here ?)
Also , the distributor vacuum line is steel (as per photo)
Surely this couldn't be a factory thing , how would you adjust the dizzy ?
I am also thinking this engine has more than 20K Miles on it judging from the amount of crud on the Timing Chain and Gears .
Edited by BUCKET 2026-01-18 12:05 AM
 (TC 1.jpg)
 (TC 2.jpg)
 (TC 3.jpg)
 (TC 4.jpg)
 (TC 5.jpg)
 (TC 6.jpg)
 (Vacuum Line.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
TC 1.jpg (142KB - 176 downloads)
TC 2.jpg (142KB - 174 downloads)
TC 3.jpg (124KB - 141 downloads)
TC 4.jpg (129KB - 175 downloads)
TC 5.jpg (146KB - 122 downloads)
TC 6.jpg (126KB - 131 downloads)
Vacuum Line.jpg (126KB - 123 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | But wait there's more .
 (TC_7[1].jpg)
Attachments
----------------
TC_7[1].jpg (145KB - 145 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3491
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | You got lied to about 20k on this engines rebuild. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Shep - 2026-01-19 12:39 PM
You got lied to about 20k on this engines rebuild.
They never said it had been rebuilt just that it was original miles .
Which I knew wasn't true but I wanted the car and it ran fine .
I am thinking it's been around the clock.
Probably more like 120K Miles . |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4240
Location: Connecticut | Wow, so mucn jury-rigging. But now you can set up everything correctly and the car will run beautifully. I would say about 120K on the engine. Chain and gears do need replacment. You should also bend a correct fuel line rather than running rubber lines. Also, there should be a glass bowl fuel filter up at the carb or integrated with the fuel pump. The metal vacuum advance line is correct. Ron |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | ronbo97 - 2026-01-19 4:31 PM
Wow, so mucn jury-rigging. But now you can set up everything correctly and the car will run beautifully. I would say about 120K on the engine. Chain and gears do need replacment. You should also bend a correct fuel line rather than running rubber lines. Also, there should be a glass bowl fuel filter up at the carb or integrated with the fuel pump. The metal vacuum advance line is correct. Ron
Ron
I have a new Timing Chain Set on it's way , Rollmaster dual row , plus all the Gaskets I need .
I also have a new Harmonic Balancer on it's way as well ( Made in Australia , go figure .)
It did have the original fuel pump with glass bowl installed , but I took the bowl off to clean the sludge out .
When I replaced it the bowl cracked .
So I installed the later model Fuel Pump until I could find another earlier one .
Which I have , I just haven't installed it yet .
Thanks for the info about the fuel line .
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4240
Location: Connecticut | New harmonic balancer ? Is this a 'one size fits all' balancer ? I would recommend having the correct, original balancer rebuilt. Otherwise, you may end up with additional problems. Also, install the glass bowl fuel pump. The later fuel pump may be putting out too much pressure, which will put pressure on your needle and seat. And cause flooding. Just save yourself some grief. Ron |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | The Harmonic Balancer I bought is made by a Australian company and is the exact same measurements as the original .
I can't seem to find any Balancer rebuilders in Australia .
They are probably around somewhere but a Google search shows nothing .
I will keep the original in case I find someone who can rebuild it .
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Rollmaster Dual Row set and glass bowl Fuel Pump installed .
 (TC 8.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
TC 8.jpg (140KB - 151 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Well she's back on the road and running fine .
I put a another coil on which tested fine .
I tested the condenser and ballast resistor , both tested fine but I put new ones on anyway .
The points were fine but a little out of adjustment .
Kept moving the dizzy around a little bit at a time until she fired .
She just sat there idling smoothly .
I adjusted the Timing to 6 BTDC and took here for a drive .
Running great and shifting fine .
I think I will take it to 8 BTDC as I think it needs a little bit more .
Thanks for all your help fellas .
Cheers ,
Bucket .
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4240
Location: Connecticut | Glad you got things dialed in. I believe the factory setting is 10° BTDC. And you can probably push it to 12°. The best way is to use a vacuum gauge. If you can hold 17" of vacuum at idle, then you're doing fine. If engine starts to ping on acceleration, dial it back a couple of degrees.
Ron
Edited by ronbo97 2026-02-05 8:47 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: The Centennial State | Nice work, Greg!  |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | ronbo97 - 2026-02-05 8:45 PM
Glad you got things dialed in. I believe the factory setting is 10° BTDC. And you can probably push it to 12°. The best way is to use a vacuum gauge. If you can hold 17" of vacuum at idle, then you're doing fine. If engine starts to ping on acceleration, dial it back a couple of degrees.
Ron
The FSM says 6 BTDC but that seems low to me .
Will do as you suggest and see what happens .
A friend has a vacuum gauge so will be good to check it . |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Gympie area , QLD , Australia . | Lancer Mike - 2026-02-05 8:48 PM
Nice work, Greg!
Thanks Mike .
|
|
| |
|
Location: The Centennial State | Do you have a few images of your 58 Dodge you could share? I'd love to see the exterior and interior! |
|
| |
1958 Dodge Custom Royal Backfired now won't start .
