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 Any notable signs of Pertronix failure?Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182     Location: Lower Mainland BC | . I installed a Pertronx 1383 kit in my 56 D500 IBK-4301A dual point distributor back in February 2017 (9 years ago). I have been happy with it. Always started the car, including yesterday. Has run fine up to 4000 RPM (I very rarely give it the beans) Yesterday, I was out in the 56 D500 all afternoon trying to find a fitting for the fuel inlet for my 2787S AFB install. Multiple places. Multiple stops. Multiple restarts. All without a hitch.  Came home, parked the 56 on the street while I searched in the garage for a fitting that I might already have had (duh). Had a coffee. Watched some cat videos on Youtube (joking). Went out a couple of hours later (still light out) to put the 56 in the garage. Engine started fine but when I revved it a bit, it started popping (inside the air cleaner, i.e. back firing). Hood was open so I revved it by hand (on the carb linkage). Sure enough popping in the air cleaner. Put the hood down and drove the car around the block and into the garage (had to nurse the throttle to avoid the popping). Lifted the hood. Checked for popping. Still there. As I result, for the moment, I am at a bit of a loss. In case it was/is a heat soak situation, I just went out the garage for a cold start (10 C air temp). Started fine(ish) but any amount of off idle throttle yields a regular (non-random) pop. So one cylinder is firing a bit early (??) If any of this sounds familiar, please let me know. I need to solve the problem. Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-03 9:08 PM | ||
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| dels56 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 488 | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Thanks Del. (I was hoping that you saw this thread). A bit disturbing that things can be good, right up until they are not  I just re-found my spare (uninstalled) 1383 Pertronix Kit so I have the technology to fix the problem. BUT FIRST, I found this Common Causes for Sudden Backfiring with Pertronix: Timing Shift: If the distributor was not properly tightened or if the vacuum advance is failing, the timing can shift, causing the spark to occur when the intake valve is open, resulting in a "pop-back" or intake backfire. Overheating Ignition Coil: A common issue is using a coil with too low resistance, causing the Pertronix module to overheat and produce weak or intermittent sparks, leading to backfires and stalling, particularly when hot. (I AM RUNNING A PERTRONIX BRAND COIL) Faulty Magnetic Ring/Rotor: The magnetic ring that fits over the distributor shaft can crack or slip, while the rotor can develop cracks or carbon tracking, causing misfires. Wiring/Grounding Issues: The Pertronix unit requires a solid ground connection. Poor grounding or loose connections can lead to intermittent signal loss and backfiring. Module Interference: The ignition module might be rubbing against the distributor cap or rotor, causing it to overheat or get damaged. Troubleshooting Steps: Check Timing: Verify that your base and total timing are correct using a strobe light. Verify Coil Resistance: Ensure your coil has proper resistance (usually 3.0 ohms for Pertronix Ignitor I, or 1.5+ ohms for Ignitor II). Inspect Distributor Components: Check the magnetic ring for damage and ensure it is not rubbing the module. Check the distributor cap and rotor for cracks or carbon tracking. Check Connections: Verify all wires are secure, especially the red wire to a 12V source and black to the negative coil side A bit of a pain but I guess 9 years of trouble-freeness can't go unpunished.   | ||
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| wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13210  Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | |||
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| Powerflite |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10542  Location: So. Cal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . The Pertronix coil *IS* labeled 1.5 Ohms. So that part is good (?? I hope). That said, all my plugs have been gapped to 0.035" for the last 9 years and things have been fine (until they weren't - on Monday). Yesterday I replaced the magnetic ring that has been on the distributor for 9 years with a new one. NO CHANGE Today, I checked the timing. WHHAATTT!! 20 deg BTDC !! at idle (vacuum advance still hooked up). Distributor lock down was tight and I know that I had set it at 8 or 9 degrees (vacuum advance connected) a couple of years ago. NO IDEA why it moved. It took some effort to loosen the lock down bolt so ??? Loosened distributor lock down and adjusted timing to 6 deg BTDC. Restarted the engine. Somewhat better. Watched the electric choke work its way off while the engine idled. No popping at idle. So less rich and less advance helped (a bit) Manually tweeked the throttle. Popping back. Maybe less so but still there. Idled fine. NEXT UP: Remove distributor and replace Pertronix module. IF the popping goes away, I will have two things to do 1) re-gap plugs to 0.045 and 2) consider replacing the coil with a new 1.5 Ohm coil (perhaps NOT a Pertronix ??) Thanks for the input Nathan. Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-05 7:16 PM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Harumph. I think I found the problem and I wish I could find the genius who caused it Previously (Feb. 2017) I said: "Anyway, I slowly but surely installed the Pertronix 1383 in my IBK-4301A distributor. There were complications (of course, why make it easy). The internal ground wire had broken off (or almost off and I broke it completely off disassembling the distributor). That created an issue that was solved with copper de-soldering wick, two small ring terminals (trimmed to make them even smaller), solder (and gun), pop rivets and a Dremel (to trim away the excess on the pop-rivet backing washer) and then a point file to file down the top of the pop rivet so it didn't interfer with the movement of the top plate." Guess what I found when I removed the distributor: My (I mean that "genius"'s) internal ground wire (the de-soldering wick) fix broke away from the the riveted connection. As a result, I probably had an intermittent ground for the Pertronix module. Tomorrow, I going to try to solder the wire back to the rivet location and IF I am successful, I think I will leave the Pertronix module alone and just reinstall the distributor to see if that was the problem (or not). IF I still have popping, I will pull the distributor and replace the module. (BUT I guessing that it is fine) I checked my NOS 4301A to see what the ground wire should be like. I was surprised that one end was riveted to the plate so my original fix was not totally off the mark. I presume that the wick wire fatigue cracked. That might warrant a slightly longer piece (the other end has a small ring terminal that is screwed to the plate). I'll see what tomorrow brings. Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-06 2:23 AM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Fixed the internal ground wire issue. Re-installed the distributor and tried to start the car again. Started okay(ish) (just guessed at the distributor position) but immediately got the popping again. 1. Realized that the internal ground likely has nothing to do with the Pertronix module. 2. I will have to remove the distributor tomorrow and replace the module. 3. If that doesn't cure the problem, I will install my NOS dual point 4301A. If there is still popping, I have a mechanical issue of some form. I am hoping No. 2 is the answer. | ||
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| 58coupe |
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Expert Posts: 1802 Location: Alaska | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 58coupe - 2026-03-07 7:49 AM I hope you find an ignition problem causing the backfire. If it turns out to be mechanical I would look for a broken valve spring or sticking valve. Yup. That is a big concern. I hope that isn't going to be the case. | ||
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| dels56 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 488 | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2026-03-06 6:24 PM 2. I will have to remove the distributor tomorrow and replace the module. 3. If that doesn't cure the problem, I will install my NOS dual point 4301A. If there is still popping, I have a mechanical issue of some form. I am hoping No. 2 is the answer. No. 2 (replacing the Pertronix module) was NOT the answer. No change whatsoever. I didn't bother with No. 3. Pretty sure the issue is mechanical (valve train). So I tore into the Even No. bank (2,4,6,8) because I previously had an issue with No. 8 exhaust push rod. After getting there (only broke one deep well spark plug - some gorilla had installed them VERY tightly), on quick glance, I don't see the issue. I will examine No. 8 more after lunch. IF it is not that, I have 16 possibilities to check out. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . The 2017 issue with the No. 8 valve push rod was NOT the exhaust BUT I didn't figure that out until I removed the No. 8 exhaust push rod and found no issues. After finding and reading the 2017 thread, it was the No. 8 *INTAKE* push rod that had the issue. So I backed off the adjuster and removed the No. 8 intake push rod only to find.... (After these words from our sponsor) That there was absolutely NO PROBLEM with No. 8 cylinder push rods. SO I am at a loss. I going to have to adjust the even side valves while I am here (on the passenger side). Maybe I will find something. It will probably be fine (maybe) and I will have to check out the drivers side head. (Removing that valve cover is a major pain in the butt). Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-07 9:39 PM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Before I start investigating the driver's side head, I have formulated the following plan of attack to confirm/deny that the issue is on the passenger side head: 1. Return the respective exhaust and intake push rods to their respective hole. 2. Re-adjust the clearance adjusters to what they were (26 thou for the exhaust, 0 for the intake (it must be sitting on the intake cam lobe). 3. Install spark plugs in the four holes (2, 4, 6, 8) (without installing the valve cover or the spark plug tubes (it could get a bit messy). 4. Re-install the spark plug wires on the respective plugs. 5. Start the engine. Observe the action of the exposed valve train. 6. If the engine is popping, pull one spark plug at a time to check if the popping stops. 7. If one of the cylinders turns out to be the culprit. (I am still suspecting an issue with No. 8), take note of which one. 8. Stop the engine and evaluate the data. 9. Decide next move (???) It's a plan. Maybe not the best but it is a plan. | ||
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| JedRhule |
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Veteran Posts: 140 Location: Palm Beach County Florida | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Well it was a plan. Got to Point 2.1 = adjust exhaust clearance to 26 thou - Check. Went on to Point 2.2., adjust intake clearance to 0 because the lifter was apparently on the cam lobe. Good theory, except *APPARENTLY* since yesterday, mice must have eaten the lifter because even with the adjuster screwed in as much as possible, there was still something like 1/4" or more clearance.  Conclusion: No. 8 intake lifter that always made me suspicious that it was an hydraulic lifter (not a solid lifter like it should be) has collapsed.  SOOOOO...... Intake must come off (after removing the carburetor, etc.) Valley pan must come off. Collapsed lifter must be extracted, hopefully not in tiny pieces. NOS solid lifter must be installed. Re-assembly is the opposite of disassembly. Except I will be doing a bunch of unnecessariy cleaning, painting and who knows what (like cleaning out the exhaust cross-over in the intake) I have been putting most of that off for 9 years. The chickens have come home to roost. Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-08 9:22 PM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11182 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . I spoke with a Tech Rep at Pertronix this AM regarding widening the plug gap to 0.045 to prevent damage to the module. He didn't agree with that. What he said is with my Pertronix set-up (1383 CH392 and Pertronix Flamethrower 40,000 V coil), I *could* widen the gap by 0.005 to 0.007 to take advantage of the stronger spark. For me, that means going from 0.035 to 0.040. Which I will do after lunch before I complete the lifter replacement project (AKA "Another CAN OF WORMS") | ||
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