Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed

["Rob van der Es" <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yep Tom,

I guess you are right here, I will compare the resistance from to outer
casing to both the contacts (which should be obviously infinete..) with
the resistance measured on a new one.

Thanks again for all your help!,

Robert

Op Ma, 23 oktober, 2006 5:31 pm, schreef tom higgins:
> If you go back and compare the resistance from the outer casing to both
> the contacts on each of the bulbs, both old and new, I bet you will find
> a difference.  The metaphorical light bulb just went on at least in my
> brain: by running the hot in to one of those bottom bulb contacts and
> grounding the other via the yellow switched wire, they can mount the
> fixture to the metal with no problem.  Unless of course you have a bulb
> with some corrosion or moisture built up in its base that forms a high
> resistance path from the "out" side to ground.  The result would be a
> softly glowing bulb with the door closed.  I doubt the dark glass on your
> magic one means anything other than carbon buildup from the edison
> effect.  The real problem is between the brass casing and where the tiny
> wires exit through epoxy to the contact points.
>
> rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:  Hi Paul and all the
> others on the IML who had given me advice on this subject,
>
>
> I have found it!!!
> And you never believed the cause... (and no-one mentioned it :)
> I have checked the insulation of all the yellow wires in the dome light
> circuit, and they were OK. I have cleaned the fuses and the contacts in the
> fusebox, no result.
>
> Sighhh...When I looked at the bulb I noticed that the glass was rather
> dark, so I guessed that it would fail in a short time. Tired of puzzling to
> find the solution of my half power Dome light I decided to put a new one
> in and look further another day.
>
> Guess what..With the new bulb the problem was gone!!!
> I couldn't believe my eyes, all this work and checking wires at hard to
> reach places was done for nothing!!! To be sure I put back the old bulb,
> and yes the dome light stayed on at half power. Put the new bulb back, and
> everything was fine!!
>
> And no, the two contacts on the bulb are not connected to the housing of
> the bulb, I checked that too!!
>
> I have no idea what is wrong with that old bulb, but I am glad that I
> cured the problem!!
>
> Thanks anyone for the input and help,
>
>
> Robert
> 1960 Crown
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Op Vr, 20 oktober, 2006 4:31 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
>
>> Keep looking. You'll figure it out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 2:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul (and all the others that have helped me so far ofcourse!),
>>
>>
>>
>> I have checked out the bulb and bulbholder last night, cause it sounded
>>  to good to be true that the poor insulation of the housing was giving
>> trouble. And unfortunately for me, the bulb is a double contact one so
>> it doesn't matter that the housing of the bulb is grounded. Unless there
>> is an internal shortage in the bulb, I will check that out too.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Op Do, 19 oktober, 2006 5:22 pm, schreef :
>>
>>
>>> I could be wrong, but I believe that this is a single contact bulb
>>> with the socket acting as ground. Therefore, the housing should be
>>> grounded to the body, and would not be insulated from it.
>>>
>>> Paul W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 2:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes Paul,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again and too bad indeed that you don't live around here :)
>>> Maybe you have read another interesting post about this subject in the
>>>  meantime, stating that the insulation of the fixture itself maybe at
>>>  fault here! I never realised but the fixture must be ofcourse
>>> insulated from the body, otherwise there would be a permanent
>>> connection to ground! That is, if one of the contacts of the bulb is
>>> also connected to the metal housing of the bulb. I don't know if that
>>> is the case with American
>>> bulbs, overhere in Europe we use bulbs with one central contact and
>>> the housing is the other contact.
>>>
>>> It would be interesting however to find the source of all this
>>> trouble and ofcourse I will keep y'all updated!
>>>
>>> Thanks for all your help,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Op Wo, 18 oktober, 2006 10:19 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I read another reply to this earlier concerning a '63 Imperial and
>>>> an 8
>>>> track player. The poster mentioned his dome light did this due to a
>>>> problem with a fuse, and also that the mounting for the player was
>>>> changed to be away from the fuse panel. I think that the mounting
>>>> of the player was actually the problem and that somehow the hard
>>>> ware or the player came into contact with something in the fuse
>>>> panel, causing a short circuit. A bad fuse doesn't cause a short,
>>>> but rather an open.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know where the short in this car might be. It would seem
>>>> from the discussion about the '63 mentioned above, and the story
>>>> that I wrote about my 1948 Lincoln Continental, that the short could
>>>> be (and probably is) quite unrelated to the specific wiring to the
>>>> dome light. This light is mounted to the body of the car. A short
>>>> elsewhere in the body (even under the hood, in a door jamb, or in
>>>> the steering column) might somehow complete the dome light circuit,
>>>> causing it to light up even though the switches have not been
>>>> activated. It is not a good circuit, or even the correct one, but a
>>>> completed circuit it must be.
>>>>
>>>> I am not an electrical engineer, but I can speak from experience. A
>>>>  light burning at half power without closing any switches means
>>>> that there is a short. The wiper system has its own protections, so
>>>> I
>>>> think that if your wiper problem was caused by a short, it would
>>>> blow a fuse or kick the breaker to the parking mechanism, and not
>>>> remain shorted allowing something like this to occur. Possibly there
>>>> could be some body wiring that has shorted. That can only be found
>>>> by inspecting the insulation on everything. I would suggest that if
>>>> there is a short in the body someplace, it could effect the
>>>> performance of everything, enough to make things act strangely or
>>>> not at all, even the wipers.
>>>>
>>>> If all the switches are open, and the light is on, the circuit has
>>>> somehow been completed. I can't really help find it because I am not
>>>>  there. Possibly another poster has had the dome light come on at
>>>> half power for some reason. If so, maybe they will pipe up.
>>>>
>>>> Paul W.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 6:50 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK Paul,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your very clear explanation (as always!) Here is the
>>>> situation and my opinion (please correct me if I am wrong..): There
>>>> is a purple wire running through the dome light, this is the
>>>> positive 12 volt wire that is going to the bulb. To complete the
>>>> circuit (and make the domelight working) we need a ground. This
>>>> ground is supplied by a couple of yellow wires, 2 of them are coming
>>>> from the rear door switches and one is coming from the manual switch
>>>> in the headliner.
>>>>
>>>> Even with these 3 wires disconnected from their switches, the light
>>>>  still shines at half power or so.
>>>>
>>>> So something is providing ground to this circuit.. Richard Burgess
>>>> was so kind to point me at two connection points were those yellow
>>>> wires come togehter, one is at the left rear wheel well and the
>>>> other is under the headliner close to the manual switch.
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find anything wrong with the connection point at the
>>>> rear wheel well so I guess the yellow wiring under the headliner is
>>>> at fault here? Maybe this connection point is grounded somehow??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Strangely enough when I remove the bulb, to prevent that my battery
>>>>  is running flat, and place it back after a couple of days
>>>> everything seems to be normal again. The light only comes on then
>>>> when a backdoor is openend or the manual switch is operated, but
>>>> after half an hour or so the bulb is shining continuously again at
>>>> half power..
>>>>
>>>> Talking about electric gremlins!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts, anyone....???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Op Wo, 18 oktober, 2006 1:37 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I really think that this dome light issue is related to some kind
>>>>>  of an electrical short circuit. It has been explained that this
>>>>> light comes on even if the doors and light switch are not
>>>>> activated. That
>>>>> means that the circuit is being completed someplace else. It has
>>>>> to be, or the light can't work. I know it sounds wierd, but this
>>>>> short might not be in the wiring to the light itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> A simliar situation in my '48 Lincoln Continental resulted from a
>>>>>  grounded wire under the dash. In this case, the dome light
>>>>> became brighter as I increased the engine RPMs. At one point, it
>>>>> would go out until the RPMs fell back down to that level. I
>>>>> haven't mentioned this previously because the car is six volt
>>>>> positive ground. Nonetheless, it takes a completed circuit to make
>>>>> the light come on. Once I found the short, the light functioned
>>>>> normally, and so did the rest of the car.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul W.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 1:30 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: IML: Progress of a sort on the '60 LeCrown
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot for your kind suggestion!
>>>>> I will check the fusebox then to see if something is wrong there.
>>>>> Might well be the case, cause about the same time my dome light
>>>>> stays on at half power my wiper motor stopped working... Might be
>>>>> an coincidence, but who knows?
>>>>>
>>>>> I will check out the fusebox this weekend!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Op Wo, 18 oktober, 2006 4:09 am, schreef john sadowski:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The dome light at half power sounds like a fuse is bad. On my
>>>>>> first 63, I
>>>>>> had an 8 track player mounted directly below the fuses. Well ,
>>>>>> one day the dome light wouldn't go out & it was shining less
>>>>>> then full power. Opening the doors caused the problem to move to
>>>>>> the map light. After nearly pulling my hair out, I discovered
>>>>>> the bad fuse. I put the 8 track back in the same place & it
>>>>>> happened again. After the 2nd time, I relocated the 8 track & no
>>>>>> further problem. John ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: richard burgess
>>>>>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:24 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: IML: Progress of a sort on the '60 LeCrown
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since we're all chiming in on our '60s I thought I would throw
>>>>>> in another update.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have paid attention to the saga, a big milestone has
>>>>>> been made. I have a brand new correct windshield installed,
>>>>>> finally! It's
>>>>>> so beauutiful. I have most of the stainless back on but of
>>>>>> course had one of the header clips break. Fortunately I have had
>>>>>> parts cars. The trim slid around a bit so it took a couple tries
>>>>>> to get everything rights. I am ready to install the dynamat
>>>>>> insulation on the roof and begin windlacing installation. I have
>>>>>> started installing weatherstripping on the doors. I seriously
>>>>>> wonder how well these cars were sealed in the first place. The
>>>>>> original weatherstripping was crushed in many places leading me
>>>>>> to believe it never quite went the direction it was intended
>>>>>> even when new. As soon as the
>>>>>> headliner goes in I can start on the carpet and installing the
>>>>>> interior which is already finished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The engine and transmission have now both been overhauled a
>>>>>> second time due to botched work the first time. My Dad is coming
>>>>>>  down next week and we are going to get the drivetrain
>>>>>> installed. This
>>>>>> should all go very qwickly as we have now done it once before! I
>>>>>>  really plan on finishing the car sometime next Spring. this is
>>>>>>  my fourth year in this frame up restoration. We are then going
>>>>>> to get the front sheetmetal on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then the real troubleshootinng can begin. Once everything is
>>>>>> hooked up I can see what does and does not work. I have
>>>>>> laboriously added a factory original power lock system from a
>>>>>> parts car using the original wiring harness and nos
>>>>>> transformers. I still need one
>>>>>> actuator for the driver's door. It will be things like this that
>>>>>>  I
>>>>>> am dying to know if they actually work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's going to be looking like a car again soon!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Burgess
>>>>>> '60 Crown
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rob van der Es wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Donn,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ahhh, the joys of owning and maintaining a 1960 Imperial...
>>>>>> Been there, done that and as a matter of fact.. Still do!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't it great fun to find yourself under the dash upside down
>>>>>> (not
>>>>>> too easy when you are size XXL :) trying to repair something
>>>>>> that is hidden there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now I am trying to fix the wiper motor, it suddenly
>>>>>> stopped working and haven't found out yet what is wrong. Since
>>>>>> both the switch and the wiper motor are really hard to accesss
>>>>>> this aint a job for the faint hearted!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another problem is that the EL dash lighting system from time
>>>>>> to time fails to work, I have already thrown in a new (=rebuild)
>>>>>>  power pack but the dash still gets dark every now and then
>>>>>> (after
>>>>>> a few days everything is working again for an hour or so..) Must
>>>>>>  be one of the gauges that is shorting out I guess, so in a
>>>>>> short time I will finding myself again under the dash pulling
>>>>>> white leads from the gauges to find out which one is guilty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then we have the strange problem with the dome-light, it stays
>>>>>> on when the doors are closed.. And even stranger it shines it's
>>>>>> light at half power or so. There must be a shortcircuit to
>>>>>> ground (and no,
>>>>>> the doorswitches are ok and so is the manual switch: with all
>>>>>> those switches disconnected the dome light is still working at
>>>>>> half power..) but I haven't found out yet where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I learned from Richard Burgess that there is a connectionpoint
>>>>>> under the headliner, running from the manual switch to the
>>>>>> domelight and then to left rear wheel well where it connected
>>>>>> to the doorswitches, so problably the shortcircuit is in this
>>>>>> area...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apart from all these electrical problems (the electrical system
>>>>>>  of the 60 model year isn't of the same quality as the rest of
>>>>>> the car if you ask me) the car drives beautifully. Running
>>>>>> strong and is shifting gears perfectly, all I have to do in this
>>>>>> aspect is to sort out a rough idle. I might be in for a new
>>>>>> harmonic damper since the timing mark seems to have slipped..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So enough work to do, but it is worth every minute of time that
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> have spend so far to make the car better then it was before I
>>>>>> bought it:) It is fun, and to see all those faces of people
>>>>>> looking at a car that they have never seen before...Well, it
>>>>>> makes it all worth I guess!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So Donn, keep up the good work and keep it runnin'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>> 1960 Crown 4 door Hardtop
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Op Di, 17 oktober, 2006 5:16 am, schreef Donn Reese:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fits and starts the Imperial is getting more roadworthy,
>>>>>>> but good grief is it putting up a fight! Maybe it's just tired
>>>>>>> and WANTS
>>>>>>> to go sit in a pasture forever. I've certainly been ready to
>>>>>>> oblige a couple times recently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The heater fan was making a loud scraping noise and the
>>>>>>> heater control valve had been bypassed so I decided to pull
>>>>>>> the heater and at least fix the fan. I was surprised how easy
>>>>>>> the heater unit was to remove, just three screws. Turns out
>>>>>>> the plastic housing on the outside face of the squirrel cage
>>>>>>> had deformed inwards pressing against the squirrel cage
>>>>>>> itself. I used my heat gun to heat up the plastic then pushed
>>>>>>> the face out, reforming from a concave to a convex (btw, it's
>>>>>>> pretty crappy plastic). But it's much quieter now and I didn't
>>>>>>> have to cut a hole in the housing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With that fixed I removed the heater control valve and
>>>>>>> (assuming
>>>>>>> it was just froze up with corrosion) proceeded to lubricate it
>>>>>>>  and get the valve working again. I reinstalled it and hooked
>>>>>>> up the heater hoses and fired up the car. That's when I found
>>>>>>> out why it had been bypassed, it leaks. Soooo, I bypassed it
>>>>>>> again and will have to scout around for a new one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I discovered the cause of the slow turn signals at idle that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> reported here recently.....bad flasher. I put a new one in and
>>>>>>>  now it works regardless of idle. Seems strange to me though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Amongst all of this, last week the speedometer started making
>>>>>>> a horrendous noise and the needle would jump around. The OIC
>>>>>>> archive came in handy, found the same symptoms there....who
>>>>>>> would have guessed you have to lubricate the speedo head
>>>>>>> periodically. Definitely a new one on me. Especially
>>>>>>> surprising considering they don't make it easy to get any of
>>>>>>> the instruments out to do any kind of maintenance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I made another little test run down the highway and back and
>>>>>>> everything seems to be fine for now. Let's hope it stays that
>>>>>>> way as we're now getting frost at night and working outside
>>>>>>> is getting chilly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Donn Reese
>>>>>>> 1960 Custom 4dr hdtp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -----
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