Re: IML: valves and heads

[Kenyon Wills <imperialist1960@xxxxxxxxx>]

Guys and Gals,  I had my 72 440 redone with a bump in
cam and mild compression.  This done by a guy that's
been doing RB engines for the local muscle crowd for
at least 30 years.

http://imperialclub.com/Yr/1972/Wills/

I told him to do what he thought best for my project,
a GT, or Grand Touring car without doing the research,
debate, or reading like so many of my car brothers
seem to.

I don't think that there was any major change in the
heads, although the rust in the "been sitting" engine
cylinders required it to go 40 over.

Result: The engine is peppy, but not really all that
different from stock.  My 100k 1973 is maybe 5%-10%
down on power by comparison at the most.  I presume
that a totally stock rebuild would close at least 50%
of whatever gap there is, so I figure that the cam and
pistons and whatnot were at most a 5% gain.

I do notice that the car is incredibly thirsty and
gets horrible gas mileage, probably in direct opposite
proportion to however more powerful it is than it was
in stock trim.

After the engine was done and had been driven for a
little bit, I removed the really nice $225 edelbrock
performance intake manifold and replaced it with the
stock one when the hood would not clear the air
cleaner.

Guess what?  No discernable difference, although I'm
sure I could show one on a chart somehow if I cared.

This leads me to conclude that I wasted $225 and two
hours of my life on that intake manifold...

Also makes me wonder what else was a loser that sucked
up money.  Like the deep oil pan that didn't fit or
the stupid chrome air cleaner....


----


This discussion about heads and engines and all that
makes me mentally cringe at the amount of energy spent
over the last 50 years by couch-racers trying to
navigate changes to already really good Chrysler
designs.  The Imperial is 5000 pounds for crying out
loud.

And it's NOT a GM or Ford product!

A bump on the cam and new valves/rings will make the
biggest difference.  Spending "a lot" of time or money
on swapping out heads and all that other stuff is a
bunch of hooey in my opinion, with all due respect to
the folks here and elsewhere that feel otherwise.

As I was selling the 150 RB (imperial) engines that
were down at Doc's place to the general public via
online ads, I listened to all manner of BS from people
spending all sorts of time decoding casting numbers on
heads and blocks and looking in books and trying to
make sure they were getting a "good" 440 engine.  

Many of them turned their noses up at the post 1971
(or was it 1970?) 440's because the crank went from
forged to cast or vice-versa - I can't recall (and
don't care).

Since so many of the muscle-heads were raving about
this and the 915 heads that just plain weren't on the
property (and I had two people ask permission to flip
through about 40 heads just to be sure even after I'd
said we had none), I asked around about it regarding
doing a street rebuild on a 440 and how much of a
difference stuff like that makes to the finished
product.

The answer that I got from people I respect that
rebuild Mopar and have experience was that the
"better" crank made a difference in engines built to
perform at the top 10% of the envelope, above 600 HP
or something like that.  The kinds that would be used
for drag racing or whatever extreme applications, and
not in a street car.

Do you have any idea how much it takes to go from 400
to 600 HP on a 440?  

These engines I was selling were all going into street
cars.  Not one imperial owner, all Barracudas and
Challengers and that sort of thing, and those folks
are certainly focused differently than the Imperial
people that I've met over the years, so I can take
that into account regarding mindset when shopping and
all that.

Yet most of these "clients" were raving about 915
heads and Pre-1971 440's and so forth, repeating most
of the stuff they'd read on forums and in the various
publications that focus on that sort of thing.

Best I can tell:  It does not matter for the most
part.  

Someone needs to sell magazines and engine rebuild
books, so they need SOMETHING to write about, and
these differences are factual differences in the
engines.

People seem to bypass the common sense fact that the
"better" aspects of these parts only benefit you for
specific hi-perf applications.  Just like giant tubs
with huge slick tires in the rear would.

Over the years, this forum has had all manner of
messages about upgrading and modifying the original
engineering on our cars.  Seems that there is a
recessive gene in men that activates and cries out to
"MAKE IT BETTER" when working on a car.  

I'll tell you that for all the things that I've done
to change that 1972 around, I've had at least 50% of
the changes go sour or require additional
"engineering" to correct for the changes.  

Since I'm a schlub, you could argue that a better
researched project might have perhaps only a 25%
failure rate or maybe none at all, but that's STILL a
high amount of problems that wouldn't be there if I'd
just stuck with stock, something that I went back to
stock most times and had no more problems without any
real degradation in performance that I could tell.


SO:  That's the last time I'll mention anything about
it here, since I don't want to burst anyone's baloons
or be a dreamkiller, but I think that most of the High
Performance engine discussion stuff offers some pretty
marginal ROI, especially considering how much
research, debate, and energy some of these messages
seem to have behind them.  

I can say it's better to spend energy memorizing
engine specs than baseball statistics, the other use
that men have for that part of the brain....


Oh, and pre 1967 cars should NOT have discs or radial
tires on them, since they worked great when fitted
with correct parts when new, so there. 



Have a nice day.




Kenyon Wills
 
 






















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