Re: [FWDLK] FIRST HEMI

[Bill Watson <wwatson@xxxxxxxxx>]

Yes, the valve-in-head hemi engine dates back to the early 20th century.
Cannot remember just who came out with it.

I do have a copy of a book, "Gas, Gasoline, and Oil-Engines", written by
Gardner D. Hiscock, M.E. and published in 1906.  On page 60 the author
illustrates a hemi-head engine with angled, overhead valves.  Except for the
cupped piston heads, the combustion chamber looks like a Chrysler hemi.   On
page 61 Mr. Hiscock writes, "... the concave cylinder head, as shown in Fig.
19, with a flat piston-head is the latest and best practise in
explosive-engine construction."  And that was written almost ten years
before Willys began building sleeve-valve engines on the Knight patents and
45 years before Chrysler introduced its Firepower hemi.

As they say, there is nothing new under the sun.

Bill
Vancouver, BC

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Homstade" <dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] FIRST HEMI


> I read someplace, I forget where, about the early
> inovative engine designs in the auto industry. The
> valve-in-head Hemi was first introduced before 1910, by
> some manufacturer now long extinct. I recall the year as
> 1904.
>
> Dave Homstad
> 56 Dodge D500 Hemi
>
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:05:23 -0500
>   Dave Casey <dcasey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >If you're talking about a two cycle engine, the Yamaha YZ
> >series dirt bike
> >engines have domed pistons and a domed chamber, though
> >the dome is not as
> >tall as that of a hemi. The spark plug is dead center
> >above the piston, and
> >only slightly recessed.
> >
> >It would be cool to make modern designed aluminum heads
> >for old engines like
> >those you described though.
> >
> >Dave Casey
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill Watson" <wwatson@xxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 1:57 AM
> >Subject: Re: [FWDLK] FIRST HEMI
> >
> >
> >> I, for one, would like to see this hemi version of the
> >>sleeve-valve
> >enigne.
> >> It would be possible to produce a hemispherical
> >>combustion chamber in a
> >> sleeve-valve engine as the engine has the valves on the
> >>sides of the
> >> cylinder walls.  It would be a simple matter of
> >>machining a domed
> >cumbustion
> >> chamber with domed pistons. All the drawings I have seen
> >>of Willys's
> >> sleeve-valve engines show a recessed chamber for the
> >>spark plug,  but the
> >> pistons are cupped, not domed.  So these drawings do not
> >>show a hemi
> >engine.
> >>
> >> However, the sleeve-valve engine was not a Willys
> >>design, who was a
> >salesman
> >> not an engineer,.  It was designed by one Charles Knight
> >>with a
> >> production-ready, patented design by 1907.  He sold
> >>licences for his
> >> patented engine and Willys gained the rights to produce
> >>and sell Knight
> >> sleeve-engined cars when he acquired the Edwards Motor
> >>Car Co., Long
> >Island,
> >> New York in 1914 along with its Knight licence.
> >>  Although Willys did
> >> produce a V8 Knight sleeve-valve engine in the late
> >>teens, his next
> >engine,
> >> a six, was gained by acquiring the Sterling-Knight
> >>company in 1925.   He
> >> also acquired Stearns-Knight in 1926.
> >>
> >> The last Willys-Knight was built for 1933, just about
> >>the time the Knight
> >> patents expired.   The Knight engine was more popular
> >>with expensive
> >makes,
> >> suich as Minerva and Mercedes, as well as Daimler who
> >>built their last
> >> Knight-engined car in 1939.
> >>
> >> By the way, the first car to use a Knight sleeve-valve
> >>engine was the
> >> British Daimler car in 1908.  Russell of Toronto,
> >>Canada, acquired a
> >license
> >> in 1910, while some other American firms were
> >>Stoddard-Dayton (1911),
> >> Columbia (1911) Atlas/Lyons (1912), R & V Knight, and
> >>Handley-Knight
> >(1921),
> >>
> >> Walter Chrysler, though, never owned Willys-Overland.
> >>  He was in charge
> >of
> >> the company during 1919-21 as a contractor of the
> >>banking syndicate that
> >put
> >> Willys into bankruptcy proceedings.  To my knowledge
> >>Chrysler put no money
> >> into the Willys-Knight, instead working on improving the
> >>Overland and
> >> developing the first Chrysler  This Chrysler was not the
> >>Chrysler Model B
> >> that was introduced in 1924, but the Model A that was
> >>sold off at auction
> >in
> >> 1921 to one William C. Durant.  This Chrysler formed the
> >>basis for
> >Durant's
> >> Flint car.
> >>
> >> When Chrysler left Willys he never looked back at the
> >>Knight engine.  He
> >> stuck to "poppet" valve engines, producing in-line,
> >>side-valve versions.
> >> The sleeve-valve design was a dead-end, being an oil
> >>burner, expensive to
> >> build and not an easy engine to produce more power.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >> Vancouver, BC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Paul J Dwaihy II
> >> To: wwatson@xxxxxxxxx ; L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 4:29 PM
> >> Subject: FIRST HEMI
> >>
> >>
> >> Gents,
> >> You may want to check your history of the HEMI a wee bit
> >>more....  An
> >> American Company called Willys-Overland -Knight was the
> >>first American
> >> Company to produce a HEMI.   During a conversation with
> >>a fellow gear head
> >> in Auburn Mass. I (being from Detroit) learned something
> >>that history
> >books
> >> in the library confirmed. Essentially  this Detroit
> >>"Motor City" boy  got
> >> "spanked" by a guy from Auburn, Mass.!!  Willys pretty
> >>much came up with
> >the
> >> idea and were the first to produce a "sleeve valved"
> >>version.  Well before
> >> either Europe or Chrysler.  W. P. Chrysler bought Willys
> >>( and their
> >> designs) and put his folks on them to "fine tune" the
> >>concept.   Several
> >> substandard versions later they got it right.  But
> >>neither good ole'  W.P.
> >> nor his company were the first in either category, he
> >>purchased the idea
> >> from Willys. Several Willys-Overland-Knight HEMI's can
> >>still be found in
> >> operation today!   Do a wee bit of research...and use it
> >>to frustrate the
> >> overly confident ( like I was) HEMI pseudo effcianato's.
> >> enjoy!
> >> Paul from Detroit
> >>
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